# Women Against Feminism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667 "2015-09-27T03:08:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/341 "2015-10-20T07:42:04Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > [Men](http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/) [Are](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448) [Obviously](https://archive.is/GNQO5) [Deficient](https://www.reddit.com/r/OkCupid/comments/2pac0i/men_youre_ugly_women_80_percent_of_men_are_below/) [In](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLsk_ltENM) [So](http://badasschick.com/where-have-all-the-good-men-gone/) [Many](http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/why-are-all-the-good-guys-always-taken-gay-dead-or-34699) [Ways](http://www.the-niceguy.com/contributors/GoodMen.html). [I](https://archive.is/GNQO5) [Mean](http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2014/10/08-marriageability-employment-childbearing-sawhill) [Seriously](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlvMAS_20K4). > [@Lamia](#): > > I just wanted to point out that **LinusK** just cited _The Onion_. And while we’re pointing things out, note that another of his cites is equally off-base. His indiscriminate Google search for "“Where Have All the Good Men Gone?” found [this article from the Brookings Institution](http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2014/10/08-marriageability-employment-childbearing-sawhill) about a recent Pew report on an alleged “dearth of marriageable men”. But what **LinusK** failed to notice was that the article actually _debunks_ the report’s faulty premise, finding that statistically speaking, there _isn’t_ any dearth of “marriageable men”: > [@](#): > > A recent Pew report finds a dearth of “marriageable men” – measured by the ratio of employed, never-married men to all never-married women. > > But the Pew definition of the “marriage market” biases any ratio of men to women. Since the populations of men and women are of similar sizes, taking just one segment of the male population (the employed) and comparing it to the entire population of women suggests that there are not enough marriageable men. If we were to calculate the ratio of all men to employed women, the reverse would be true. […] > > First, let’s just look at the ratio of never-married men to women aged 25 to 34. Because women are more likely to be married or previously married, there are 126 single men for every 100 women in this demographic: plenty to go around. > > Next, let’s take the definition of marriageable used by Pew – employed, never married, and between the ages of 25 to 34— but apply it to both genders. […] Using this measure there are 124 marriageable men for every 100 marriageable women […] > > Another approach is to define marriageable as childless, never married, and between the ages of 25 to 34. In this case, there are 161 marriageable men for every 100 marriageable women. […] > > Finally, let us entertain the notion that there really are gender differences in what makes someone “marriageable.” If we assume that a man is marriageable if employed and a woman is marriageable if childless, there are 123 marriageable men for every 100 marriageable women […] > > On all of our measures of marriageability, the ratio favors single women. Only comparisons of _employed_ single men to _all_ single women result in a marriage market skewed in favor of men. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/342 "2015-10-20T12:43:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It doesn’t tell us anything except what the rates were in the last 12 months, as compared to lifetime rates. We can’t really infer any kind of a long-term trend over multiple years from just looking at data for a single year. [You owe me .23 seconds of my life.](https://www.aei.org/publication/stunning-college-degree-gap-women-have-earned-almost-10-million-more-college-degrees-than-men-since-1982/) > [@](#): > > According to data from the Department of Education on college degrees by gender, the US college degree gap favoring women started back in 1978, when for the first time ever, more women than men earned Associate’s degrees. Five years later in 1982, women earned more bachelor’s degrees than men for the first time, and women have increased their share of bachelor’s degrees in every year since then. In another five years by 1987, women earned the majority of master’s degrees for the first time. Finally, within another decade, more women than men earned doctor’s degrees by 2006, and female domination of college degrees at every level was complete. > > For the current graduating class of 2013, the Department of Education estimates that women will earn 61.6% of all associate’s degrees this year, 56.7% of all bachelor’s degrees, 59.9% of all master’s degrees, and 51.6% of all doctor’s degrees. Overall, 140 women will graduate with a college degree at some level this year for every 100 men. But given that: > [@](#): > > There is a birth defect that is surprisingly common, affecting a key pair of chromosomes. In the normal condition the two look the same, but in this disorder one is shrunken beyond recognition. The result is shortened life span, higher mortality at all ages, an inability to reproduce, premature hair loss, and brain defects variously resulting in attention deficit, hyperactivity, conduct disorder, hypersexuality, and an enormous excess of both outward and self-directed aggression. The main mechanism is androgen poisoning. I call it the X-chromosome deficiency syndrome, and a stunning 49 percent of the human species is affected. > > It is also called maleness. [it shouldn’t be surprising.](http://chronicle.com/article/The-End-of-Male-Supremacy/228769/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/343 "2015-10-20T13:21:45Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > But given that: > > [it shouldn’t be surprising.](http://chronicle.com/article/The-End-of-Male-Supremacy/228769/) Latching onto a single weird point from an extremist you disagree with makes it awfully easy to argue a position, but it seems like a waste of time and energy when the vast majority of the people you are arguing with don’t hold that extremist position. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/344 "2015-10-20T13:53:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup. There is no question that traditional power disparities (who’s “punching up” and who’s “punching down”) have sometimes led to women unfairly being given a pass on incivility or aggression directed at men. And as I said, that’s bad for both men and women. Feminists have always been punching down. But whatever. _“The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. … Whatever it’s ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. … “Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests._ …” – Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969. _"We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. "_ – Robin Morgan, “Sisterhood Is Powerful,” 1970, p. 537 _“No women should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Women should not have that choice, because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one”_ Feminist Simone de Beauvoir, Saturday Review, June 14, 1975. _“Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.”_ – Andrea Dworkin. “The Root Cause,” speech, 26 Sept. 1975, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge (published in Our Blood, ch. 9, 1976). _“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”_ – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor. _“Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”_ Sheila Cronin - “Marriage” (1970), Koedt, Levine, and Rapone, eds., HarperCollins, 1973, p. 219) The destruction of families - and especially of families with fathers - has been a feminist goal for 50 years or more. According to the [Census Bureau](http://www.census.gov/hhes/families/files/graphics/AD3b.pdf), half of adults today live with a spouse, down from over two thirds in 1967. The effect on women isn’t great (anything that hurts men ultimately hurts women too), but the effect on children is worse. [The effect on daughters is bad, but the effect on sons is even worse.](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425506/gender-gap-college-fatherless-households?3pOhaLXDt0vPm8xX.01) > [@](#): > > In a new article in Family Relations, William Doherty, Brian Willoughby, and Jason Wilde provide evidence for a thesis not many have considered: Changes in family structure have contributed to the growing gender gap in college enrollment. Growing up with stably married parents makes children of both sexes more likely to succeed at school, even controlling for socioeconomic status, but the absence of a father seems to hurt boys more than it does girls. But effect of fatherlessness [isn’t limited to school](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201106/the-decline-fatherhood-and-the-male-identity-crisis): > [@](#): > > Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, suicide, poor educational performance, teen pregnancy, and criminality, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics. Children of single-parent homes are more than [twice as likely to commit suicide](http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20030123/absent-parent-doubles-child-suicide-risk): > [@](#): > > In recent years, the number of kids living with one parent has continued to rise. Now, a new study shows that children of single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to commit suicide. Growing up without a father also [increases the likelihood of committing crime](http://familyfacts.org/briefs/26/marriage-and-family-as-deterrents-from-delinquency-violence-and-crime): > [@](#): > > Youth Property Crimes. Youths living in intact families are less likely to commit serious property crimes than peers living in singleparent families. Compared to peers in intact families, adolescents living in single-mother families were more likely to engage in delinquent acts involving serious property crimes. This was true taking into consideration adolescents’ and parents’ characteristics as well as family processes (such as parental involvement, parental supervision, parental monitoring, and parent-child closeness). ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/345 "2015-10-20T13:54:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Latching onto a single weird point from an extremist you disagree with makes it awfully easy to argue a position, but it seems like a waste of time and energy when the vast majority of the people you are arguing with don’t hold that extremist position. And yet you don’t condemn it, either. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/346 "2015-10-20T14:01:53Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > And yet you don’t condemn it, either. Why should s/he? The whole media/net culture of “here’s someone presumably on ‘your’ side being extreme: why don’t you condemn it” generally leads us nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/347 "2015-10-20T14:56:29Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > And yet you don’t condemn it, either. I condemn it, and other extremist crap. So do the vast majority of the feminists I’ve ever known or spoken to or read from. I’m unable to read every position every extremist has ever held in human history, or even every position every extremist feminist has ever held, so I’m unable to specifically condemn every single position anyone has ever held that I disagree with. If that’s what you require than you’re going to be unsatisfied. If all you want is extremist positions to argue with, I’m sure you’ll find many. If you want to actually discuss and debate feminism with the feminists on this board, then you’re far better off going by what we post rather than what random internet people post. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/348 "2015-10-20T16:52:24Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Feminists have always been punching down. But whatever. > _“The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. … Whatever it’s ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. … “Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests._ …” – Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969. > > _"We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. "_ – Robin Morgan, “Sisterhood Is Powerful,” 1970, p. 537 > > _“No women should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Women should not have that choice, because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one”_ Feminist Simone de Beauvoir, Saturday Review, June 14, 1975. > > _“Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.”_ – Andrea Dworkin. “The Root Cause,” speech, 26 Sept. 1975, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge (published in Our Blood, ch. 9, 1976). > > _“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”_ – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor. > > _“Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”_ > Sheila Cronin - “Marriage” (1970), Koedt, Levine, and Rapone, eds., HarperCollins, 1973, p. 219) > > The destruction of families - and especially of families with fathers - has been a feminist goal for 50 years or more. According to the [Census Bureau](http://www.census.gov/hhes/families/files/graphics/AD3b.pdf), half of adults today live with a spouse, down from over two thirds in 1967. > > The effect on women isn’t great (anything that hurts men ultimately hurts women too), but the effect on children is worse. [The effect on daughters is bad, but the effect on sons is even worse.](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425506/gender-gap-college-fatherless-households?3pOhaLXDt0vPm8xX.01) > > But effect of fatherlessness [isn’t limited to school](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201106/the-decline-fatherhood-and-the-male-identity-crisis): > > Children of single-parent homes are more than [twice as likely to commit suicide](http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20030123/absent-parent-doubles-child-suicide-risk): > > Growing up without a father also [increases the likelihood of committing crime](http://familyfacts.org/briefs/26/marriage-and-family-as-deterrents-from-delinquency-violence-and-crime): Once more, revealing insight into the quagmire of your logic… You cite examples of radical feminist ideas from 40 to 50 years back; Quotes from radicals most people have never heard of, nor would likely agree with. Then you cite recent statistics on single parent families in an attempt (I assume) to show causation. Yet you make no attempt to factually show that the extreme feminists you cited earlier have a direct bearing on the divorce rate in today’s society. You simply want everyone to believe that this connection exists. :dubious: I’m tempted to comment: ‘You can’t be serious!’ But I’ve read enough of your thinking on the matter to already know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/349 "2015-10-20T17:35:05Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > And yet you don’t condemn it, either. I do not know if I condemn any offensive speech either. As a Libertarian, I believe that offensive speech against anyone should be permissible. Of course in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/350 "2015-10-20T17:56:32Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/351 "2015-10-20T17:57:43Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I do not know if I condemn any offensive speech either. As a Libertarian, I believe that offensive speech against anyone should be permissible. > \*\* > Of course in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men.\*\* **CCitizen** I’ve seen you make remarks of this nature a few times now. (Bolding added for clarity). Can you provide any stats/cites that support your premise that men are more often the target of offensive speech than women in modern society? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/352 "2015-10-20T17:57:49Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Cite, please. Any greeting card section plus Mainstream Media. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/353 "2015-10-20T17:58:09Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I do not know if I condemn any offensive speech either. As a Libertarian, I believe that offensive speech against anyone should be permissible. > > Of course in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men. Condemning a statement doesn’t mean one believes it should be banned or legally sanctioned/prevented. I disapprove and condemn many assertions, but I would oppose any effort to make it illegal to make them. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/354 "2015-10-20T18:00:57Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > **CCitizen** I’ve seen you make remarks of this nature a few times now. (Bolding added for clarity). Can you provide any stats/cites that support your premise that men are more often the target of offensive speech than women in modern society? If someone looks at the Mainstream Media, they would probably see ten negative stereotypes about men to one negative stereotype about women. Are there any **scientific studies** on the subject with a good sample size? I have looked for them for years and did not find anything. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/355 "2015-10-20T18:02:21Z")
Your opinion is duly noted. Shame you can’t back it up with facts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/356 "2015-10-20T20:20:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Once more, revealing insight into the quagmire of your logic… He’s also unable to parse a distinction between being against _nuclear_ families, and being against the concept of families altogether. Also, apparently, in his head being against marriage means being in favor of single-parent households. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/357 "2015-10-21T01:10:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I condemn it, and other extremist crap. So do the vast majority of the feminists I’ve ever known or spoken to or read from. I’m unable to read every position every extremist has ever held in human history, or even every position every extremist feminist has ever held, so I’m unable to specifically condemn every single position anyone has ever held that I disagree with. If that’s what you require than you’re going to be unsatisfied. > > If all you want is extremist positions to argue with, I’m sure you’ll find many. If you want to actually discuss and debate feminism with the feminists on this board, then you’re far better off going by what we post rather than what random internet people post. Random internet people? _ **They** _ are the ones that founded and led feminism. _ **You** _ are the random internet people. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/358 "2015-10-21T01:18:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In short. Stop focusing on every slight (real or in jest) that comes in your general direction and grow a thicker skin. [Maybe you should tell that to feminists](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/09/10/pax_dickinson_business_insider_cto_forced_out_for_sexist_racist_tweets.html?wpisrc=flyouts). > [@](#): > > For years, Business Insider Chief Technology Officer Pax Dickinson was just tweeting along, novelty cowboy hat perched atop his head, collar popped, aviator sunglasses engaged: “Women’s suffrage and individual freedom are incompatible. How’s that for an unpopular truth?” he tweeted. And “Men have made the world such a safe and comfortable place that women now have the time to bitch about not being considered our equals.” And “This election will be decided by single women. It’s an epic battle between ‘Jungle Fever’ and ‘Daddy Issues’." … > Yesterday, some people read these tweets, retweeted them, and wrote stories about them. “I’ve been expecting this to happen for a long time,” Dickinson tweeted as the opposition kicked into gear. “With me, they don’t just disagree. It quickly morphs into trying to threaten my job.” Today Dickinson is no longer the CTO of Business Insider. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/359 "2015-10-21T01:23:48Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I do not know if I condemn any offensive speech either. As a Libertarian, I believe that offensive speech against anyone should be permissible. > > Of course in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men. I’m not a libertarian, but as a liberal, I also support free speech. Feminists, on the other hand, do not. Which is one of the reasons they’re not liberals. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/360 "2015-10-21T01:28:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He’s also unable to parse a distinction between being against _nuclear_ families, and being against the concept of families altogether. Also, apparently, in his head being against marriage means being in favor of single-parent households. I’ve long since given up hope that feminists have the ability to abstain from ad hominem attacks. You should still be ashamed of yourself, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667.md?page=19)