# Women (and men) who have affairs. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779 "2013-01-30T04:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/141 "2013-02-01T18:24:18Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > None of that is what I was talking about - sounds like you are talking about an open marriage. What I am talking about are people who aren’t really concerned about holding to the vow of monogamy, and who have affairs that they think have nothing to do with their marriage. Sometimes they are married to someone who agrees with them, and sometimes they aren’t. ? If the spouse of the person having the affair agrees with them that having affairs is okay and doesn’t affect the marriage, then “open marriage” basically **is** what you are talking about. If their spouse doesn’t agree with them about that, on the other hand, then no, it’s not an open marriage of any kind. Rather, it’s exactly the sort of thing that the OP of this thread is pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/142 "2013-02-01T19:00:02Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > All I gotta say is that any person who decides to have an affair and decides to be a home wrecker and family wrecker deserves to have the pain thrice returned upon them. +100 on this. Hell, +1000. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/143 "2013-02-01T21:45:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Symptom - you said so yourself above. “It’s not a great marriage, but it’s not awful either.” Sounds like these folks should never have been married in the first place. Fair enough. So does having a relatively crap marriage absolve the cheater? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/144 "2013-02-02T00:36:38Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Right, but the cheater doesn’t do that because they don’t want to. That’s a _problem in the marriage_– I mean, I at least think if your spouse would rather put energy into cheating than working on your relationship, that’s a pretty major problem. Obviously, you guys don’t see eye to eye with regard to priorities. Oh for fuck’s sake. Guy rapes a gal at a party. “Um, well, sure, there may have been some problems with the encounter, we had different priorities concerning consent…” No harm no foul, right? Just good old ambiguous unattributable “relationship problems.” ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/145 "2013-02-02T01:15:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I didn’t take Abnormal Psych class in college, so I’m afraid I don’t have your level of expertise. You didn’t answer my question ☹ And obviously I wasn’t mentioning the class to say I was an expert but to say it reminded me of the exercise we did because it sounded so textbook. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/146 "2013-02-02T03:03:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake. Guy rapes a gal at a party. “Um, well, sure, there may have been some problems with the encounter, we had different priorities concerning consent…” No harm no foul, right? Just good old ambiguous unattributable “relationship problems.” What the fuck are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/147 "2013-02-02T03:54:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake. Guy rapes a gal at a party. “Um, well, sure, there may have been some problems with the encounter, we had different priorities concerning consent…” No harm no foul, right? Just good old ambiguous unattributable “relationship problems.” Yes, because comparing a rape scenario to a marriage totally makes sense. Thanks for the view you’ve given us all into your surely healthy noggin, friend. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/148 "2013-02-02T15:43:38Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yes, because comparing a rape scenario to a marriage totally makes sense. Thanks for the view you’ve given us all into your surely healthy noggin, friend. What I’m comparing is the dishonesty of hand-waving away one person’s transgression by casting it as a problem shared by the two parties involved. If you find it horrible when applied to a victim you’re sympathetic with, I’m glad your empathetic machinery is in at least properly working order, but consider that sexual infidelity also hurts a great deal and (at least sometimes) is not the victim’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/149 "2013-02-02T16:58:28Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > What I’m comparing is the dishonesty of hand-waving away one person’s transgression by casting it as a problem shared by the two parties involved. If you find it horrible when applied to a victim you’re sympathetic with, I’m glad your empathetic machinery is in at least properly working order, but consider that sexual infidelity also hurts a great deal and (at least sometimes) is not the victim’s fault. Yeah, this ^ I’m getting a strong sense from some posters here that “cheating is a symptom of a bad marriage and therefore; meh”. Or, the fallacy that **HMS Irruncible** points out: “cheating is merely a symptom and the blame is shared 50/50 by the marriage partners 'cause the marriage was shit in the first place so they’re both to blame”. I call bullshit on that. Cheating is a choice made by (one assumes) one half of a partnership. A choice. Nowhere, that I know of, is it written that if you’re not happy in your marriage it’s okey dokey to bonk someone else. Or at least not in one of those “to have and to hold, from this day forward, forsaking all others” type marriages. And, in my experience, that presumably shitty marriage is going to get a whole lot shittier if one of the partners chooses to cheat. Cheating is a betrayal of trust. It’s effectively saying to your partner, “You’re not good enough, but I can’t be bothered to deal with our problems. I’m just going to please myself and you can fuck off”. Sorry, but in my book that doesn’t fly. I don’t care if she’s an unmitigated bitch who makes your life a living hell, or he’s a abusive asshole who micromanages your every breath. Pull up your big girl/boy panties and deal with your issues. _Then_ go find someone else if that’s what you want. And don’t even start on anyone who enables a cheater by having an affair with a married person being a victim too… But whatever. My opinions come out of my experience. And I’m quite sure everyone else who’s posted here comes from the same place. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/150 "2013-02-02T22:28:57Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Fair enough. > > So does having a relatively crap marriage absolve the cheater? > [@slumtrimpet](#): > > I’m getting a strong sense from some posters here that “cheating is a symptom of a bad marriage and therefore; meh”. Or, the fallacy that **HMS Irruncible** points out: “cheating is merely a symptom and the blame is shared 50/50 by the marriage partners 'cause the marriage was shit in the first place so they’re both to blame”. > > I call bullshit on that. Which is certainly your right, but then it seems that you think that a person cheats on a marriage because? They just felt like it? Most folks don’t choose to cheat on their marriage just because it sounded like a good idea. Yes, it’s going to make the marriage get a whole lot shittier, and yes it’s a betrayal of trust, but I think what you are missing is that many (most?) times there has already been a betrayal of trust within the marriage, or maybe the marriage was crap to begin with - making vows to the great sky fairy isn’t going to magically make everything sunshine and lollipops. The problems humans have don’t go away with a piece of paper. No, cheating doesn’t have to mean “I can’t be bothered to deal with our problems”, it could mean that one half of the union has tried and tried and has now given up. For me, once the marriage gets to that point, cheating is immaterial and may even be the sign of someone being responsible for their future. > [@](#): > > But whatever. My opinions come out of my experience. And I’m quite sure everyone else who’s posted here comes from the same place. Yup - my ex cheated on me and ended up siring a child while we were still married. But, I already thought he was an asshole, wasn’t all that surprised he was cheating and was only still there because I couldn’t afford to move on. Once I found out I might end up being even partially responsible for a baby, I was gone - I had enough money problems without that too. Obviously, you have a problem with people who have sex with someone other than their spouse while they are still married; I am not all that concerned with the official boundaries because as far as I concerned, for the most part if one half is out looking, that marriage is already null. I personally think that my take on it is more realistic - rather than depending on a piece of paper to keep my marriage strong, I work at it myself. Of course, you are free to insist that people go thru the divorce before they begin to try to rebuild their lives, but to go about tarring and feathering those who don’t really want to go thru hell twice is a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/151 "2013-02-02T22:40:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ? If the spouse of the person having the affair agrees with them that having affairs is okay and doesn’t affect the marriage, then “open marriage” basically **is** what you are talking about. I didn’t say the spouse agreed - that would be an open marriage. What I am talking about are usually men, who have serial affairs and when they get caught they just cannot understand what the big deal is. “I paid the bills, I did sports with the kids, where’s the problem?” Especially common in marriages where the wife isn’t interested in having sex with him any more. The man wants to stay in the marriage because he loves his kids and probably still loves his wife, but since she has (to use a term from others) betrayed his trust by refusing to have sex with him, he doesn’t really get why it’s a problem for him to get it elsewhere. Some folks just aren’t wired for sexual monogamy. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/152 "2013-02-03T01:04:05Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Which is certainly your right, but then it seems that you think that a person cheats on a marriage because? They just felt like it? Most folks don’t choose to cheat on their marriage just because it sounded like a good idea. Yes, it’s going to make the marriage get a whole lot shittier, and yes it’s a betrayal of trust, but I think what you are missing is that many (most?) times there has already been a betrayal of trust within the marriage, or maybe the marriage was crap to begin with - making vows to the great sky fairy isn’t going to magically make everything sunshine and lollipops. The problems humans have don’t go away with a piece of paper. Sky fairies and pieces of paper be damned. I’m talking a promise and breaking it. And I don’t think that’s ever really okay. > [@](#): > > No, cheating doesn’t have to mean “I can’t be bothered to deal with our problems”, it could mean that one half of the union has tried and tried and has now given up. For me, once the marriage gets to that point, cheating is immaterial and may even be the sign of someone being responsible for their future. Or it _can_ mean “I can’t be bothered to deal with my marriage when I can just fuck around and have fun”. Or it can mean what you said. I just don’t accept the “My wife/husband is a shit so I get to do what I want” excuse. > [@](#): > > Yup - my ex cheated on me and ended up siring a child while we were still married. But, I already thought he was an asshole, wasn’t all that surprised he was cheating and was only still there because I couldn’t afford to move on. Once I found out I might end up being even partially responsible for a baby, I was gone - I had enough money problems without that too. Like I said, our opinions in this thread are pretty much based on our own experiences. > [@](#): > > Obviously, you have a problem with people who have sex with someone other than their spouse while they are still married; I am not all that concerned with the official boundaries because as far as I concerned, for the most part if one half is out looking, that marriage is already null. I personally think that my take on it is more realistic - rather than depending on a piece of paper to keep my marriage strong, I work at it myself. Of course, you are free to insist that people go thru the divorce before they begin to try to rebuild their lives, but to go about tarring and feathering those who don’t really want to go thru hell twice is a bit much. Actually, just sex doesn’t (and didn’t) bother me that much. It was the investment of time and effort that went into the new relationship, and to the detriment of the old one, that frosted my panties. I guess I equate an “affair” as more than just casual sex. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/153 "2013-02-03T02:50:25Z")
It’s a bad, bad, bad, bad deal all the way around, with nothing but unmagined levels of pain, remorse, and anger. Hurtful beyond expectations, to say the least. Anyone who is thinking of cheating would do everyone involved a favor by completely cutting ties first. Or, making every effort possible to fix the situation they’d like to cling to. It’s bad, bad, bad. Have a nice day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/154 "2013-02-03T02:53:22Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Sky fairies and pieces of paper be damned. I’m talking a promise and breaking it. And I don’t think that’s ever really okay. It’s OK to break a promise as long as it isn’t to have an affair? > [@](#): > > Or it _can_ mean “I can’t be bothered to deal with my marriage when I can just fuck around and have fun”. Or it can mean what you said. I just don’t accept the “My wife/husband is a shit so I get to do what I want” excuse. “I get to do what I want”? Is that really your take on the reasoning? > [@](#): > > Actually, just sex doesn’t (and didn’t) bother me that much. It was the investment of time and effort that went into the new relationship, and to the detriment of the old one, that frosted my panties. I guess I equate an “affair” as more than just casual sex. Shrug, I give up. You are focused only on the person who has the affair and are acting as if the other one must be innocent of any promise breaking and/or completely clueless that there is anything wrong in the marriage and/or there hasn’t been any effort to rescue the marriage. Me, I really cannot see that anyone would go forth and have an affair (as you define it) unless things at home were hopeless, if for no other reason than divorce is freaking expensive! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/155 "2013-02-03T04:19:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake. Guy rapes a gal at a party. “Um, well, sure, there may have been some problems with the encounter, we had different priorities concerning consent…” No harm no foul, right? Just good old ambiguous unattributable “relationship problems.” About time we got started on Rape Month around here! > [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Yeah, this ^ > > I’m getting a strong sense from some posters here that “cheating is a symptom of a bad marriage and therefore; meh”. Or, the fallacy that **HMS Irruncible** points out: “cheating is merely a symptom and the blame is shared 50/50 by the marriage partners 'cause the marriage was shit in the first place so they’re both to blame”. \ I don’t think there are many situations where cheating is a good response to problems in a marriage, but there can be any number of dynamics in a marriage where one partner uses infidelity as a (bad) response to what they see as a bad marriage. Should the partner who was unhappy have cheated? No. They _should_ have worked on their marriage or ended it, but humans are imperfect, and they do stupid, ill-advised, self-destructive things. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/156 "2013-02-03T04:39:39Z")
Nobody owns another person. People are free to do what they please with their bodies. With that being said, if you make a committment to somebody, you should stick to it. At the very least, if your feelings change you can let that person know. It can be complicated due to circumstancs, passion, bad decisions, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/157 "2013-02-03T04:51:39Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It’s OK to break a promise as long as it isn’t to have an affair? I can’t imagine where you got that from. But no, it’s not okay to break a promise, any promise. And the vows I remember taking said something about ‘forsaking all others’ as well as a bunch of other shit that fell by the wayside too. > [@](#): > > “I get to do what I want”? Is that really your take on the reasoning? It was in my experience. YMMV > [@](#): > > Shrug, I give up. You are focused only on the person who has the affair and are acting as if the other one must be innocent of any promise breaking and/or completely clueless that there is anything wrong in the marriage and/or there hasn’t been any effort to rescue the marriage. Me, I really cannot see that anyone would go forth and have an affair (as you define it) unless things at home were hopeless, if for no other reason than divorce is freaking expensive! Heheh. See, there’s another area where we differ. It’s not expensive at all if you lie about your financial situation. And if you can convince your cheated on spouse that it’s just as much their fault and they should be fair and reasonable and share a lawyer and then you renege on financial agreements that your rather stupid and naive spouse made with you (but didn’t get in writing because she stupidly thought you had at least one honorable bone in your body), then it’s downright cheap. Yeah, I was monumentally stupid. But at least I’m not an asshole. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/158 "2013-02-03T04:53:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t think there are many situations where cheating is a good response to problems in a marriage, but there can be any number of dynamics in a marriage where one partner uses infidelity as a (bad) response to what they see as a bad marriage. Should the partner who was unhappy have cheated? No. They _should_ have worked on their marriage or ended it, but humans are imperfect, and they do stupid, ill-advised, self-destructive things. And then they end up in the Pit. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/159 "2013-02-03T22:06:11Z")
> [@Tupac](#): > > Nobody owns another person. People are free to do what they please with their bodies. > > With that being said, if you make a committment to somebody, you should stick to it. At the very least, if your feelings change you can let that person know. It can be complicated due to circumstancs, passion, bad decisions, and all that. In some cases, the one who ends up cheating did let their spouse know. I know one man whose wife said she was perfectly happy with the marriage and he could go have an affair if he needed sex. > [@slumtrimpet](#): > > I can’t imagine where you got that from. But no, it’s not okay to break a promise, any promise. And the vows I remember taking said something about ‘forsaking all others’ as well as a bunch of other shit that fell by the wayside too. But all you are focusing on is the forsake all others part. For some reason, that is the only thing you think is a sin? irretrievable? > [@](#): > > It was in my experience. YMMV Which is the problem here. People cheat for a wide variety of reasons. The reason your spouse cheated, what happened later and how you felt about it cannot be applied to every other act of cheating. > [@](#): > > Heheh. See, there’s another area where we differ. It’s not expensive at all if you lie about your financial situation. And if you can convince your cheated on spouse that it’s just as much their fault and they should be fair and reasonable and share a lawyer and then you renege on financial agreements that your rather stupid and naive spouse made with you (but didn’t get in writing because she stupidly thought you had at least one honorable bone in your body), then it’s downright cheap. > Yeah, I was monumentally stupid. But at least I’m not an asshole. 🙂 You are if you assume that everyone else is the same as your ex. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779/160 "2013-02-03T22:57:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > But all you are focusing on is the forsake all others part. For some reason, that is the only thing you think is a sin? irretrievable? It is? When did I say that? It’s the subject of this OP’s pitting so I figured I’d stay on topic. > [@](#): > > Which is the problem here. People cheat for a wide variety of reasons. The reason your spouse cheated, what happened later and how you felt about it cannot be applied to every other act of cheating. But I sure as shit can have my opinion about cheaters and their partners in cheating. Like I said; YMMV. > [@](#): > > You are if you assume that everyone else is the same as your ex. Unlike you, who is willing to give everyone a pass because… ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-men-who-have-affairs/648779.md?page=9)