# Women and pretty shoes and stockings or lack thereof...and shoe stores and shoe sales people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255 "2010-09-01T14:14:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/21 "2010-09-01T19:34:38Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Do I have this right? Women now put bare feet into these beautiful shoes, to sweat and rub? These days, wearing hose in general is dowdy and/or seriously formal businesswear. Personally, I go with a combination of (a) bare feet, (b) liners that absorb sweat and can be washed, and (c) tiny little socks that either don’t stick out beyond the edges of the shoe or do so with a cute lacy edge. > [@](#): > > at regular “Pretty shoe” stores, do they still have shoe salespeople who actually fetch the shoes and pop them in and out of the boxes and slip them on your feet while caressing your ankle and probably getting off because they have a fetish? My experience with shoe stores these days (not counting Payless and other discount stores) is that (a) I \*will \*have a salesperson helping me, where I’ll tell them “I want to see that one, that one, that one, and that one in a 10,” and they’ll (b) bring me the boxes, but (c) they will \*not \*put them on my feet for me, but then (d) they’ll box everything back up again when I’m done trying them on, and either set them aside for me to buy or take them back to the stockroom. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/22 "2010-09-01T19:44:45Z")
[This video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg6NflpTq0g), with fashionista-reporter-shoe freak Stacy London, shows the lengths podiatrists will go to “enable” women who want to wear heels. Says the Doc: “Feet are the new face.” Meaning, presumably, they’re to be bare in the shoe and exposed as much as can be. To that end, some podiatrists do long term anti-perspiration treatments as well. (I don’t know if Stacy has had those, although I wouldn’t mind finding out…😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/23 "2010-09-01T19:52:52Z")
I live in Florida and stopped wearing pantyhose when I moved here. It’s just too friggin’ hot for hose down here. That said, I do cringe at the thought of sweating in any of my more expensive pretty shoes – and usually reserve those for travel (to cooler climates) or for when I really have to pull out all the stops, like wear a business suit to an all-day meeting. Then I will go for thigh-highs to keep my girly bits cool and aired out. My shit likes to breathe. So all my everyday shoes, which tend to run $50 or less and rarely last more than a year, get my dirty, stinky, sweaty feet stuffed into them until they are too beat up to wear in public. Many of them are sandals and/or open-toed, which means that, following fashion rules, you can’t wear pantyhose with them anyway. I won’t even wear hose with a peep toe, although I understand that’s a gray area. A note on blisters: I tend to get them only in very poorly made shoes. The more I spend, generally speaking, the better made shoe, which causes less rubbing. Even my cheap stripper heels (for pole dancing – 6" heel height) are A) remarkably comfortable considering the heel height, and B) you can’t wear pantyhose on a pole (you’ll slide right off), so you _have_ to wear them barefoot. If I get blisters, I get rid of the shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/24 "2010-09-01T20:47:04Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Then I will go for thigh-highs to keep my girly bits cool and aired out. My shit likes to breathe. If you’re shitting in your business suits, you’re doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/25 "2010-09-01T21:32:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Speaking of which, seeing as how I only buy special athletic shoes at a specialty store… at regular “Pretty shoe” stores, do they still have shoe salespeople who actually fetch the shoes and pop them in and out of the boxes and slip them on your feet while caressing your ankle and probably getting off because they have a fetish? Back when I was in college I had a summer job in the women’s shoe department of a department store. It was, by far, the worst job I ever had. 300-pound women would stop by just to rest their feet after a day of shopping. And you can imagine what they smelled like down there with their legs spread and their shoes off. And of course they all claimed to wear a size 4, though their feet were actually a size 12, and the poor salesman had to be down there trying to get the size 4 shoe to fit. And I never once heard a woman say, “No thanks, I’m just here to rest my feet.” And believe me, if anyone actually had a foot fetish, they’d be cured of it the first day at work. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/26 "2010-09-02T00:49:19Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > > [@Stoid](#): > > > > Speaking of which, seeing as how I only buy special athletic shoes at a specialty store… at regular “Pretty shoe” stores, do they still have shoe salespeople who actually fetch the shoes and pop them in and out of the boxes and slip them on your feet while caressing your ankle and probably getting off because they have a fetish? > > Back when I was in college I had a summer job in the women’s shoe department of a department store. It was, by far, the worst job I ever had. 300-pound women would stop by just to rest their feet after a day of shopping. And you can imagine what they smelled like down there with their legs spread and their shoes off. And of course they all claimed to wear a size 4, though their feet were actually a size 12, and the poor salesman had to be down there trying to get the size 4 shoe to fit. And I never once heard a woman say, “No thanks, I’m just here to rest my feet.” > > And believe me, if anyone actually had a foot fetish, they’d be cured of it the first day at work. For the record, you have said this to someone who has in her life weighed MORE than 300 pounds and currently weighs not all that much less. And I have also been sexually intimate with slim women. And I can assure you that women of all sizes can be and are both unclean and stinky AND clean and fresh…in all parts of their bodies. So singling out fat women as being notoriously unpleasant smelling (not to mention delusional about their shoe size and dishonest about their purpose in shoe shopping 😕 :rolleyes:) is just a tad…biased. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/27 "2010-09-02T00:59:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > Back when I was in college I had a summer job in the women’s shoe department of a department store. It was, by far, the worst job I ever had. 300-pound women would stop by just to rest their feet after a day of shopping. And you can imagine what they smelled like down there with their legs spread and their shoes off. And of course they all claimed to wear a size 4, though their feet were actually a size 12, and the poor salesman had to be down there trying to get the size 4 shoe to fit. And I never once heard a woman say, “No thanks, I’m just here to rest my feet.” > > > > And believe me, if anyone actually had a foot fetish, they’d be cured of it the first day at work. > > For the record, you have said this to someone who has in her life weighed MORE than 300 pounds and currently weighs not all that much less. > > And I have also been sexually intimate with slim women. > > And I can assure you that women of all sizes can be and are both unclean and stinky AND clean and fresh…in all parts of their bodies. > > So singling out fat women as being notoriously unpleasant smelling (not to mention delusional about their shoe size and dishonest about their purpose in shoe shopping 😕 :rolleyes:) is just a tad…biased. Yes, I left out the skinny women. I also left out the women who actually wore size 4, as well as the women who didn’t smell, as well as the women who actually bought shoes. The problem is, 45 years later, none of them are as memorable as the fat smelly size-12 women who didn’t buy anything. :rolleyes:, yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/28 "2010-09-02T02:28:59Z")
[quote=“panache45, post:27, topic:552255”] > [@Stoid](#): > > Yes, I left out the skinny women. I also left out the women who actually wore size 4, as well as the women who didn’t smell, as well as the women who actually bought shoes. The problem is, 45 years later, none of them are as memorable as the fat smelly size-12 women who didn’t buy anything. > > :rolleyes:, yourself. What you find memorable and what is desirable to contribute to a public thread about women and shoes are different things. If you’d been mugged by a dozen people at different times in your life, but you remembered the black ones most vividly, if you chose to publicly share your mugging experiences but confined your sharing to the black muggers, you’d be doing the same thing you are doing here. White people mug, and black people mug. But if we find the black people most “memorable” and talk only about those muggers, we perpetuate the unfair stereotype that black people are the muggers. You are perpetuating the unfair stereotype that fat women are the stinky women. By the way, note the distinction: I’m not saying that the stereotypes are that all blacks are muggers or that all fat people stink, rather that all muggers are black and all stinky people are fat. None of the preceding are true, but I just didn’t want you to go off about being accused of claiming that all fat women stink (Or are delusional about shoe size and why they are trying on shoes…which is just so weird I can’t get over it.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/29 "2010-09-02T02:45:28Z")
:rolleyes: I have nothing more to say on the subject. Hopefully neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/30 "2010-09-02T03:32:33Z")
**fat smelly size-12 women who didn’t buy anything** Whoa, size 12 is FAT? In what universe? Sheesh. (Maybe if the person in question is 5 feet tall or shorter but . . . . sheesh.) Anyway–I live in Florida and haven’t worn “pantyhose” in years. In the winter, I very often wear opaque black tights–the cotton/Spandex ones everyone and her sister wears nowadays. I wear skirts/dresses all the time without hose, and it’s not an issue. My shoes are comfortable, my feet don’t sweat, everything’s cool. A woman in pantyhose, especially the nude or flesh-colored/clear ones, would look odd and out of place around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/31 "2010-09-02T06:02:49Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > fat smelly size-12 women For a woman who wears a size 12 to weigh 300 pounds, she’d have to be like four feet tall. IIRC, “Plus Size” doesn’t even \*start \*until 14. > [@Stoid](#): > > If you’d been mugged by a dozen people at different times in your life, but you remembered the black ones most vividly, if you chose to publicly share your mugging experiences but confined your sharing to the black muggers, you’d be doing the same thing you are doing here. Oh please. Race (or what we in our society perceive as “race”) is an effectively immutable genetic condition. Being overweight is something people choose. Ultimately, any fat person could be a thin person by limiting their caloric intake to their body’s caloric needs. This will be very easy for some people and very hard for others, but it’s still something everyone has a choice about. > [@](#): > > You are perpetuating the unfair stereotype that fat women are the stinky women. Seems pretty logical to me that if you have two women of the same build, one fat and one slim, and have them both walk around for a couple of hours, the fat one is more likely to be stink(y/ier). One, she’s moving around more weight, so she’s working harder, so she’s sweating more. Two, she has more surface area to sweat. Three, that surface area has a lot of folds where sweat and bacteria can be trapped. Am I wrong here on any of these observations? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/32 "2010-09-02T06:13:26Z")
I think he means size 12 shoe ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/33 "2010-09-02T06:20:18Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I think he means size 12 shoe Scrolling back up, I do believe you’re correct. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/34 "2010-09-02T08:22:13Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > Being overweight is something people choose. At best, a mischaracterization of the reality of obesity, and in any case thoroughly irrelevant. > [@](#): > > Seems pretty logical to me that if you have two women of the same build, one fat and one slim, and have them both walk around for a couple of hours, the fat one is more likely to be stink(y/ier). One, she’s moving around more weight, so she’s working harder, so she’s sweating more. Two, she has more surface area to sweat. Three, that surface area has a lot of folds where sweat and bacteria can be trapped. Am I wrong here on any of these observations? Your assumptions and conclusions might have some merit if we were talking about women doing laps on a hot afternoon, although there’s still the issue of whether a couple of hours of “trapped” sweat = stink on a person who starts out clean, and I’m here to testify that it pretty much does not, but we’re talking about women strolling around an air-conditioned mall…again, allow me to testify that this does not result in polls of trapped sweat gathering and stinking. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/35 "2010-09-02T10:13:39Z")
What fat people do you know that have folds on their feet? And what does the fact that something is a choice have to do with whether judging a person entirely because of a certain quality makes you a bigot? Gay people may not choose to be gay, but they can technically choose not to actually have partners (even if it’s hard). Would I therefore not be a bigot if I fired someone because they married someone of the same sex? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/36 "2010-09-02T10:34:22Z")
We had a work presentation the other day–department chairs from all over the school district. The speaker was the area superintendent, which mean she reports directly to the superintendent of one of the 15 largest school districts in the country–so a pretty important person in a fairly formal context. She’s in her early 50s and was wearing the sort of conservative $400 suit you’d expect in that context. She wasn’t wearing hose. That’s when I realized just how gone hose were. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/37 "2010-09-02T12:25:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What fat people do you know that have folds on their feet? Working in a hospital, I’ve seen extremely obese people with folds of flesh coming down from the ankle, to the point where it overlaps the foot itself. Not a folded foot per se, perhaps, but I’ll admit to not examining feet closely when noticing someone in passing. (Thank goodness.) And yes, hose/stockings are very much out of fashion, and have been for a few years at least, at least in most of the US. From what I’ve seen in Chicago, wearing them marks you as someone in a work environment with an extremely conservative dress code, or someone very out of style. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/38 "2010-09-02T13:46:46Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So have women somehow evolved in the last couple of decades to no longer have sweat in their feet?? I learned when I was only a child that uncovered flesh in a shoe was an instant blister as well as sweat and just general nastiness. > > How odd. I wear loafers without socks all summer and they never smell. Actually any time of the year that it’s warm enough I go sans-socks; so much of spring and fall as well. It may be influenced by what you do in your shoes. I sit in an air conditioned office all day. On occasions when I need to walk around a lot, I wouldn`t wear the loafers at all, regardless of socks. So I’m never out in the hot sun stomping around for more than a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/39 "2010-09-02T14:04:16Z")
One company saw hose sales drop by 68% as of 2006. It’s probably even worse now. [http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/15/Business/Pantyhose\_sales\_hit\_a.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/15/Business/Pantyhose_sales_hit_a.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255/40 "2010-09-02T15:58:08Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > At best, a mischaracterization of the reality of obesity, and in any case thoroughly irrelevant. Not when you’re making ridiculous comparisons between making assumptions about someone based on a choice they make and an innate characteristic. If you have a better explanation of how people become overweight other than “they take in more calories than their body uses,” I’d like to hear it. Perhaps there have been new developments in the field of Magical Lipid Fairies. > [@](#): > > but we’re talking about women strolling around an air-conditioned mall… Do we know this? There are strip/outlet malls and outdoor upscale malls, even here in the freezing-half-the-damn-year land of Wisconsin. \*\*panache45 \*\*didn’t specify what kind of mall it was. > [@BigT](#): > > What fat people do you know that have folds on their feet? I was reading it as indicating general stinkiness, not foot stinkiness in specific. I would agree that there would be no particular reason for a fat person to have stinkier feet than a thin person, other than perhaps working harder to walk around. > [@](#): > > And what does the fact that something is a choice have to do with whether judging a person entirely because of a certain quality makes you a bigot? Everything. For instance, judging someone for being a Neo-Nazi is judging them for making a _choice_. Bigotry is the assumption of some innate characteristics being innacurately linked to others–for instance, assuming that because a person has dark brown skin that they are less intelligent. (A warranted assumption, on the other hand, would be to assume that someone of African heritage probably has tightly curled hair.) While the ease of gaining or losing weight is at least to some extent an innate characteristic and/or one that is socially programmed, all weight gain and loss is, ultimately, a function of the ratio between calories taken in and calories used, the latter of which is at least partially chosen and the former of which is entirely chosen for almost any adult. And your SSM marriage analogy is ridiculous, comparable to saying that a Black person could “choose” to be white by wearing makeup all the time and getting plastic surgery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-pretty-shoes-and-stockings-or-lack-thereof-and-shoe-stores-and-shoe-sales-people/552255.md?page=3)