# Women and sexual assault. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563 "2010-05-15T18:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/341 "2010-05-19T19:38:37Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > You and me both, clearly. But **alice\_in\_wonderland** ’s comment in the thread for men on sexual assault clicked for me - I think they’re treating this like an academic discussion, something up for debate. Not something real and painful. I admit that I was looking at this thread that way. I tend to look at all threads that way, really. I tend to try to be a bit more careful about that in MPSIMS. I had a long post all typed up to try to make my points, but I think I better not. I’m sorry if my contributions added to anyone’s pain. I am going to bow out of this thread now, peace. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/342 "2010-05-19T19:41:41Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I admit that I was looking at this thread that way. I tend to look at all threads that way, really. I tend to try to be a bit more careful about that in MPSIMS. I had a long post all typed up to try to make my points, but I think I better not. > > I’m sorry if my contributions added to anyone’s pain. I am going to bow out of this thread now, peace. **olives** has started a GD thread that might be a good place for those points - it would be a shame to waste the effort! ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/343 "2010-05-19T19:52:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t know if it is believable, but I sincerely don’t want to contribute to making people afraid or vulnerable. And I don’t think (or don’t want to come across as saying) it is ok to just ignore women when they say they feel threatened. I am just not sure I am understanding everything going on here because I do not have to go through it daily. Like I said, I’m a tall muscular male and the closest comparison I have (to constant fear of assault) is trying to avoid being attacked by a dog when out for a walk. If it helps you get a feel for the issue, think of men as dogs. Some of them are friendly, some of them are aggressive assholes, and some of them are just busy going about their doggy business and are pretty indifferent to you. Most of them are pretty harmless, even the big stupid poorly trained ones who charge up to you out of the blue and shove their nose in your crotch and slobber on your hands and jump on you with their muddy paws. Those dogs have no intention of biting you or otherwise harming you in any way, they’re just (to their standards) being friendly. But to you, they’re being at best a huge steaming pain in the ass, and at worst a potential threat. Because it’s hard for you to tell which one is truly friendly but clueless, and which one is only waiting for you reach out and pat him to take you damn hand off. And if there’s more than one, they might pack up on you and your risk of injury skyrockets. Now imagine there are dogs _everywhere_ you go, every bleeding day of your life. And if you aren’t 1000% enthusiastic about dogs running up to you out of the blue, people tell you you’re being silly and hysterical and alarmist about the risk of being bitten, even if you’re far more tired of scrubbing pawprints off your clothes than you are actually afraid of being bitten. And after all, it’s a _compliment_ when a dog climbs and licks and noses and humps your leg–it means he likes you! And if he bites you when you try to shove him off your leg…well, it’s just an isolated incident and it hardly ever happens to anyone, so don’t get so bent out of shape about it. You’d get pretty goddamn sick of the situation pretty damn fast, I imagine, and even sicker of the people who told you how it’s not such a big deal. And you’d wonder what in the name of reason was _wrong_ with the people who couldn’t see why you were leery of strange dogs. That’s life as a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/344 "2010-05-19T20:01:46Z")
Bravo. Worse, if he bites you when you try and keep him from humping your leg, well, can you blame him? - you reached out to pet him when he first came up - before he jumped up on you. And, after all, you were carrying that bucket of KFC - what dog wouldn’t want to hump your leg… ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/345 "2010-05-19T20:07:20Z")
**CrazyCatLady** , that was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/346 "2010-05-19T20:17:03Z")
[Moderator Note]Let me get this straight. This thread is not so much a poll, but a support group where the questioning of how women feel is not allowed, but men can generally be categorized as friendly dogs _at best_? Somebody better come up with a reason why this is being discussed here, and not MPSIMS and/or The BBQ Pit, or I’m closing this down.[Moderator Note] ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/347 "2010-05-19T20:24:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Moderator Note]Let me get this straight. > This thread is not so much a poll, but a support group where the questioning of how women feel is not allowed, but men can generally be categorized as friendly dogs _at best_? > Somebody better come up with a reason why this is being discussed here, and not MPSIMS and/or The BBQ Pit, or I’m closing this down.[Moderator Note] Wow, an interesting analogy in which someone attempts to illustrate what it’s like to deal with potential threatening surroundings, obviously not actually calling men anything, and you’re in here, guns blazing, telling women they shouldn’t be annoyed at being told how to feel in a thread about sexual abuse of women? I think you should print out this thread so you can take a look at it later and see how you feel about it. I guess the benefit for you is that if you close it, no one can bump it to remind you of how appalling that statement is. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/348 "2010-05-19T20:24:53Z")
Czarcasm - I’m not really interested in having a debate about my experiences. Sorry. They are my experiences, not a chance for someone to say “well, you wore a short skirt.” Nor am I interested in the attack circle of the Pit. But this thread has - according to several men - actually been HELPFUL in letting them understand what life is like for women. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/349 "2010-05-19T20:27:05Z")
If I saw women reach for their bear spray every time I happened to walk by, which is what you’d do for things that are as dangerous as dogs, I’d get pretty sick of it, not because of my poow widdle feewings but because eventually someone’s gonna spray me and that’s stressful. Even though I’ve never experienced an attack, it is stressful in actuality to me when I’m alone in a confined place with a strange woman, because of that fear. Don’t want me not talking to you or seeming to cower in the corner? Not my problem, blame the women who think every man has potential to be a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/350 "2010-05-19T20:28:10Z")
If it is just a collect of experiences, is there any reason why it shouldn’t be moved to MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/351 "2010-05-19T20:29:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Czarcasm - I’m not really interested in having a debate about my experiences. Sorry. They are my experiences, not a chance for someone to say “well, you wore a short skirt.” Nor am I interested in the attack circle of the Pit. But this thread has - according to several men - actually been HELPFUL in letting them understand what life is like for women. I’d like to second this. The suggestion that those of us in this thread objecting to having our experiences and responses to those experiences critiqued aren’t being reasonable is absurd. Particularly given that one of the respondents is an _ADMINISTRATOR_ on this very board, I suggest **Czarcasm** that your assessment of this thread is not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/352 "2010-05-19T20:30:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it is just a collect of experiences, is there any reason why it shouldn’t be moved to MPSIMS? Because it is a poll about experiences, no? As polls belong in IMHO and most polls in here are about experiences. . . ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/353 "2010-05-19T20:34:06Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I’d like to second this. The suggestion that those of us in this thread objecting to having our experiences and responses to those experiences critiqued aren’t being reasonable is absurd. > > Particularly given that one of the respondents is an _ADMINISTRATOR_ on this very board, I suggest **Czarcasm** that your assessment of this thread is not accurate. Is it me or do you appear to say that Czarcasm very well might say “hey, you asked for it”? Cause I don’t pay very much attention to individual posters here but that seems pretty far out there. Which isn’t to say that eventually I don’t expect someone to say something like that as a “joke”, which would be pretty bad in this thread, but still. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/354 "2010-05-19T20:34:24Z")
I used the dog comparison because that’s what **Wesley** said was his closest equivalent experience–worrying about being about being attacked by a dog when out walking. He said he didn’t really grok what we were talking about, and I thought that might make it clearer and more relatable for him. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/355 "2010-05-19T20:35:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it is just a collect of experiences, is there any reason why it shouldn’t be moved to MPSIMS? That’s fine - except its a poll on experiences. But I think the poll is more or less done, but the results do lend weight to our experiences. Its interesting that your first thought is the Pit or GD, though. Those are the LEAST appropriate places for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/356 "2010-05-19T20:40:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Moderator Note]Let me get this straight. > This thread is not so much a poll, but a support group where the questioning of how women feel is not allowed, but men can generally be categorized as friendly dogs _at best_? > Somebody better come up with a reason why this is being discussed here, and not MPSIMS and/or The BBQ Pit, or I’m closing this down.[Moderator Note] I’m going to guess you bombed the analogies section of the SAT, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/357 "2010-05-19T20:41:31Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Is it me or do you appear to say that Czarcasm very well might say “hey, you asked for it”? I’m not saying anything of the kind. And frankly, your other comments in this thread are exactly what some of us posters have been griping about and I suggest you take your hypotheticals to the Great Debates thread that was started for that purpose. And, FTR, I’m not suggesting this because I’m junior modding, I’m suggesting it because it would be a civil thing to do. Feel free to ignore me. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/358 "2010-05-19T20:44:00Z")
I don’t really understand where this thread moved out of appropriate conversation for this forum either. It was headed in one direction until it was too much of a debate, and now it’s too mundane. “Support group,” jesus. Anyway, In My Humble Opinion, the appropriate inappropriate joke at this point is obviously something along the lines of “and then if you don’t let him hump your leg, he’s all ‘what’s that bitch’s problem?’” Because, you know, dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/359 "2010-05-19T20:56:45Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I used the dog comparison because that’s what **Wesley** said was his closest equivalent experience–worrying about being about being attacked by a dog when out walking. He said he didn’t really grok what we were talking about, and I thought that might make it clearer and more relatable for him. I understood perfectly what you were getting at. **Czarcasm** might not have been reading the thread, and received a report about your particular post, though. When taken by itself, the post is offensive to men. However, if your post is read in context, I think it makes a good point. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/360 "2010-05-19T21:28:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The other factor is, men who said to themselves “she isn’t looking in my direction - she probably isn’t interested in talking to me” did not tend to be men whose genes got passed on. At last report, men were sentient beings who are capable of respecting the boundaries of others for minutes, even hours at a time, regardless of what their highly convenient genetic imperative may be telling them. > [@](#): > > But alice\_in\_wonderland’s comment in the thread for men on sexual assault clicked for me - I think they’re treating this like an academic discussion, something up for debate. Not something real and painful. Something clicked for me here – I’ve gotten viscerally angry in the past when the same has been done about Queer rights – treating it as a subject for academic, disinterested debate when it’s our lives, and in fact tacitly using the premise of such a disinterested debate as a reason for marginalizing the actual experiences of Queer people (after all, we’re not disinterested, right? Heterosexuals are, though.) This is helping me gain additional empathy for how the women in this thread, who have been stalwart enough to share their experience of assault and abuse only to see the discussion hijacked into Scaliaesque wibbling, must feel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563.md?page=19)