# Women and sexual assault. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563 "2010-05-15T18:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/421 "2010-06-01T15:57:29Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You are right…at the same time, I’ve known plenty of non-obnoxious men - and women - who have no compunction about calling a woman a bitch - in the interest of disclosure - its a word I use myself. Apparently, we can get by in society by calling comparing women to dogs (i.e. on this board its perfectly ok to call someone a bitch - not as a direct insult out of the pit, but other than the direct insult) but we get all up in arms when we compare men to dogs? What is up with that? Hey, I’m someone who gets up in arms when any group of people is compared to animals in a rude manner. I don’t see why it’s necessary to make those kinds of generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/422 "2010-06-01T16:07:44Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Hey, I’m someone who gets up in arms when any group of people is compared to animals in a rude manner. I don’t see why it’s necessary to make those kinds of generalizations. Yet we do…and in particular we do with women. Why? Why is it “ok” (not for you, but for many, many people) to refer to a woman as a bitch, or a bad looking woman as a dog - but when we use an analogy that compares men to dogs, apparently several men find it very disturbing? Granted, I suppose there is the referring to a man as a “cur” - but its rather archaic - both to refer to men and dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/423 "2010-06-01T16:11:34Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yet we do…and in particular we do with women. Why? Why is it “ok” (not for you, but for many, many people) to refer to a woman as a bitch, or a bad looking woman as a dog - but when we use an analogy that compares men to dogs, apparently several men find it very disturbing? > > Granted, I suppose there is the referring to a man as a “cur” - but its rather archaic - both to refer to men and dogs. Well, I think there are people objecting to both. There are women who object to that kind of pejorative language against women and men who object to it against men. It bothers me when people only care when it’s targeted against their own gender. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/424 "2010-06-01T16:21:22Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yet we do…and in particular we do with women. Why? Why is it “ok” (not for you, but for many, many people) to refer to a woman as a bitch, or a bad looking woman as a dog - but when we use an analogy that compares men to dogs, apparently several men find it very disturbing? > > Granted, I suppose there is the referring to a man as a “cur” - but its rather archaic - both to refer to men and dogs. Calling someone a bitch isn’t analogous to what whatshername said. If I call you a bitch, I’m not literally saying that you’re a dog. When I call you a bitch the idea of a canine doesn’t enter my mind for a second. It’s just a generic insult. If you have a problem with women being called bitches, fine, but those two situations aren’t the same. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/425 "2010-06-01T16:26:05Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > If I call you a bitch, I’m not literally saying that you’re a dog. She didn’t literally call men dogs, either. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/426 "2010-06-01T16:30:15Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > She didn’t literally call men dogs, either. No, she made an analogy. I’m not making an analogy between you and a dog, comparing you to one, if I call you a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/427 "2010-06-01T16:31:04Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > She didn’t literally call men dogs, either. This. This times a thousand. Jesus Christ. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > No, she made an analogy. I’m not making an analogy between you and a dog, comparing you to one, if I call you a bitch. If we’re going to be as literal as everyone here is apparently being: yes, yes you are, actually. See how stupid that is to read the statement literally? Ok, now: what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander. The same rule applies to both. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/428 "2010-06-01T16:34:03Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > This. This times a thousand. > > Jesus Christ. > > If we’re going to be as literal as everyone here is apparently being: yes, yes you are, actually. > > See how stupid that is to read the statement literally? Ok, now: what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander. The same rule applies to both. OMG! Why are you talking about BIRDS, here?!?!?!?!?!?! Are you calling him a GOOSE? They are notoriously mean and nasty! You are horrible! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/429 "2010-06-01T16:36:08Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > OMG! Why are you talking about BIRDS, here?!?!?!?!?!?! Are you calling him a GOOSE? They are notoriously mean and nasty! You are horrible! OMG! Are you literally [calling me ugly?!?!?!?!?!](http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=horrible) Well, I never! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/430 "2010-06-01T16:42:25Z")
An analogy was made, then expanded upon. This analogy has been used to describe men for many years and I, _personally_, find this analogy to be insulting. Again, it is only my personal opinion, and I am sorry that my personal opinion offends you, and because the overreaction to this opinion(see posts #427 and #428 to name a couple) seems to be throwing this thread off course, I will not post on the matter further. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/431 "2010-06-01T17:05:02Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, I think there are people objecting to both. There are women who object to that kind of pejorative language against women and men who object to it against men. It bothers me when people only care when it’s targeted against their own gender. Agree. I guess I don’t care about the dog thing either way. I’d personally rather not be insulted - but if I’m going to be insulted, bitch doesn’t tend to bother me. Its a pretty mild insult (and sometimes a compliment!) (Body parts do - whether you are referring to a woman as a cunt or a man as a wanker - I find that offensive). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/432 "2010-06-01T17:07:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > No, she made an analogy. I’m not making an analogy between you and a dog, comparing you to one, if I call you a bitch. WHAT? You realize that is exactly what the word bitch means right? Its a female dog. Its still used that way as a perfectly respectable use, it isn’t like its an obscure word origin. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/433 "2010-06-01T17:18:41Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > WHAT? You realize that is exactly what the word bitch means right? Its a female dog. Its still used that way as a perfectly respectable use, it isn’t like its an obscure word origin. :rolleyes: When I call you a bitch, I promise you I’m not thinking of a dog. At all. And when I call you bitch, even if I was really calling you a dog, I wouldn’t be calling all women dogs, like whatshername did to men, I’d be calling _you_ a dog. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/434 "2010-06-01T17:28:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > An analogy was made, then expanded upon. This analogy has been used to describe men for many years and I, _personally_, find this analogy to be insulting. > Again, it is only my personal opinion, and I am sorry that my personal opinion offends you, and because the overreaction to this opinion(see posts #427 and #428 to name a couple) seems to be throwing this thread off course, I will not post on the matter further. **Czarcasm** , for what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s that you personally dislike the analogy that’s the problem. And I’m sure no one would object to you having an opinion on the analogy or its validity (although, obviously, they may not agree). The problem, as I see it, is not that people don’t like the analogy, it’s that the comments that some - not necessarily you - have made seem to be divorced of the context in which the analogy was used in this thread. Personally, I had difficulty with the comments which have essentially said that the use of that analogy (used as a response to a specific comparison that was brought up as part of a conversation) meant that the woman who used it and those of us who thought it apt were bitter hysterical, over-emotional men-haters, whose reports of their own experiences in this thread were clearly out of place. It isn’t about you expressing an opinion about an analogy. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/435 "2010-06-01T17:33:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > :rolleyes: > > When I call you a bitch, I promise you I’m not thinking of a dog. At all. > > And when I call you bitch, even if I was really calling you a dog, I wouldn’t be calling all women dogs, like whatshername did to men, I’d be calling _you_ a dog. FFS. CCL didn’t call all men dogs. I’m going to try and write this in small words, to see if that helps. Wesley said he was scared of dogs. CCL took that and tried to help him understand the fear we were talking about, by relating it to experiences he would understand. This involved dogs. And, since we had been talking about men, it involved men too. It didn’t say, or even imply, that men were dogs. Or that men were any of the characteristics CCL attributed to dogs. She was using one scenario (that meant something to the person she was talking to) to illustrate another one (which didn’t). The relationship between the two is not in the characteristics of the objects of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/436 "2010-06-01T17:44:19Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > FFS. CCL didn’t call all men dogs. I’m going to try and write this in small words, to see if that helps. Wesley said he was scared of dogs. CCL took that and tried to help him understand the fear we were talking about, by relating it to experiences he would understand. This involved dogs. And, since we had been talking about men, it involved men too. It didn’t say, or even imply, that men were dogs. Or that men were any of the characteristics CCL attributed to dogs. She was using one scenario (that meant something to the person she was talking to) to illustrate another one (which didn’t). The relationship between the two is not in the characteristics of the objects of discussion. I think you’re wasting your time. He thinks that calling women “bitch” is somehow better than calling a man “dog”. And also, repeatedly entering a thread about rape and assault to whine about some unintended insult is pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/437 "2010-06-01T17:46:03Z")
Jesus christ, people. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I am just not sure I am understanding everything going on here because I do not have to go through it daily. Like I said, I’m a tall muscular male and the closest comparison I have (to constant fear of assault) is trying to avoid being attacked by a dog when out for a walk. > [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > If it helps you get a feel for the issue, think of men as dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/438 "2010-06-01T17:47:44Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > :rolleyes: > > When I call you a bitch, I promise you I’m not thinking of a dog. At all. > > And when I call you bitch, even if I was really calling you a dog, I wouldn’t be calling all women dogs, like whatshername did to men, I’d be calling _you_ a dog. I promise you that I interpret it to mean you are calling me a bitch - a female dog. Reception and interpretation are just as important as your intent, or you are not managing to communicate. If you do not mean to refer to women as dogs, you might want to avoid using the word bitch, which has that specific meaning. Moreover, while you may be innocent of the construction, the phrase “women are such bitches” is common enough that if you are offended by CCL’s analogy, that should be of the same concern. As Freudian Slit says, if its offensive toward one gender, it should be offensive both directions. I’m just trying to point out that “bitch” is a common enough way to refer to a woman, or women in general, that it seems like an odd double standard to take umbrage to in this particular thread. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/439 "2010-06-01T17:47:53Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I promise you that I interpret it to mean you are calling me a bitch - a female dog. Reception and interpretation are just as important as your intent, or you are not managing to communicate. If you do not mean to refer to women as dogs, you might want to avoid using the word bitch, which has that specific meaning. > > Moreover, while you may be innocent of the construction, the phrase “women are such bitches” is common enough that if you are offended by CCL’s analogy, that should be of the same concern. As Freudian Slit says, if its offensive toward one gender, it should be offensive both directions. > > I’m just trying to point out that “bitch” is a common enough way to refer to a woman, or women in general, that it seems like an odd double standard to take umbrage to in this particular thread. Fair enough. I’ll keep that in mind but you should remember that men use “bitch” to refer to one another, too. A lot. > [@nicole1912](#): > > FFS. CCL didn’t call all men dogs. I’m going to try and write this in small words, to see if that helps. Wesley said he was scared of dogs. CCL took that and tried to help him understand the fear we were talking about, by relating it to experiences he would understand. This involved dogs. And, since we had been talking about men, it involved men too. It didn’t say, or even imply, that men were dogs. Or that men were any of the characteristics CCL attributed to dogs. She was using one scenario (that meant something to the person she was talking to) to illustrate another one (which didn’t). The relationship between the two is not in the characteristics of the objects of discussion. When **Czar** has a problem with the analogy, it’s fine but when I have a problem with it you call me a moron. I’m done with the thread. > [@nicole1912](#): > > I was trying to think of a calm way to say something like this - I’m out too. Have fun. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563/440 "2010-06-01T17:53:54Z")
Wait, the dog was chasing a man, wasn’t it? If **CrazyCatLady** was calling all men dogs, and **Wesley** is a man, then that means she was calling all women _men_. And if all women are men… and all men… My god, it’s dogs all the way down! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-and-sexual-assault/539563.md?page=23)