# Women are 28% less likely to recieve CPR because strangers are afraid to touch them **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 8, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617 "2024-03-08T18:39:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/101 "2024-03-10T12:00:36Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > When I was working for the state, I asked why we had ZERO emergency training and was told that we were to never do any sort of first aid to anyone, ever. If we followed procedure and called 911, the state couldn’t be sued. If we touched anyone, even just to break a fall, the state could possibly be sued and we would lose our jobs the next day. Whoever told you that–whoever said that it’s more important for the government not to be sued than for someone’s life to be saved–was a monster. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/102 "2024-03-10T12:09:53Z")
Most heart attacks happen in places where there are a lot of people. Churches, grocery stores, gyms, crowded beaches. Wilderness first aid training (which I’ve also done) is an entirely different beast from basic first aid and CPR training. Places with lots of people have working phones. 1. check that the situation is safe for you 2. address major bleeding 3. call 911, or ask someone to if there is another person on the scene 4. grab the AED if relevant, or ask someone to 5. begin CPR ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/103 "2024-03-10T12:11:28Z")
> [@Nyvaak](#): > > A number of other points, just for the record: > > Do the CPR if someone needs it. These days, everyone knows what CPR looks like. Besides that, a glance will tell the difference between a sleeping or drugged victim of groping and a dead person being kept alive by chest compressions. > > **Do the CPR if someone needs it. Even if you didn’t have a class recently. Or ever. You might not do top quality CPR, but how badly would you have to perform for it to be worse than dying? 911 dispatchers routinely talk people through the steps.** > > Do the CPR if someone needs it. How do you know if they need it? Lack of normal breathing. (Normal. That means that occasional gasps don’t count.) Research shows we suck at checking pulses, and breathing turns out to be a better guide. > > Mouth-to-mouth is often unnecessary, but that’s a little nuanced. When bystanders start CPR, the so-called “hands only” style may have a [better survival rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3484593/). > > The arrest victims most likely to survive are those whose arrest came from a sudden dysrhythmia, and they probably collapsed with lungs full of air and a bloodstream full of oxygen. They won’t need breaths for a while, so rescue breathing would just mean more “time off the chest.” > > But those whose arrest stemmed from low oxygen levels - drowning, strangulation, opiate overdose, etc. - still need rescue breathing to survive. Arrest in children and infants almost always comes from low oxygen levels. So learn how to do mouth-to-mouth. It’s icky, but last I heard there has never been a confirmed case of any infectious disease transmission during mouth-to-mouth. > > Make sure 911 is called. But you know what? Of all the drugs and gadgets on the ambulance, and in the E.R. for most of them there is NO actual proof they do anything. What brings people back is CPR and a nickel’s worth of electricity through the heart, ASAP. (With emphasis on the ASAP.) Start CPR and make sure an AED is on the way. > > Switch out with someone else frequently. Even for folks in great shape the quality of the compressions deteriorates after about 2 minutes. > > (As an aside: I’ve gotten damn good at compressing mannequin chests. I can go five minutes or way longer with no drop in compression rate or quality. Studly, no? Well, smug anyway. Yeah, and last time I did CPR on a human, I _could not wait_ for my two minutes to be up. I was drained.) > > 1/3 the depth of the chest is the compression depth you aim at for children and infants. For adults the recommendation is 2 to 2.4 inches. Rate (except for infants) is 110 to 120 per minute. Various songs are recommended to time your compressions. At 110 per minute “_Another One Bites the Dust_.” is perfect, but only if you DON’T sing out loud. Bolding mine. THIS. I haven’t had a CPR course in 15-20 years, but I’ve held several courses and certifications. I don’t feel a burning need to get current but I know enough to be of help to the victim if noone else is around to help them. I’ll just start doing it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/104 "2024-03-10T12:34:18Z")
> [@Nyvaak](#): > > (As an aside: I’ve gotten damn good at compressing mannequin chests. I can go five minutes or way longer with no drop in compression rate or quality. Studly, no? Well, smug anyway. Yeah, and last time I did CPR on a human, I _could not wait_ for my two minutes to be up. I was drained.) Yeah, > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And in case it’s not obvious, the reason to call 911 isn’t to avoid liability. It’s because the team that will respond has more training, more tools, more resources, and more stamina than you have. I was serious about that “more stamina”. I’m in mediocre shape. I get exhausted in CPR class doing ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/105 "2024-03-10T12:49:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I was serious about that “more stamina”. I’m in mediocre shape. I get exhausted in CPR class doing Heck, you couldn’t even make it to the end of that sentence! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/106 "2024-03-10T13:21:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Most heart attacks happen in places where there are a lot of people. Churches, grocery stores, gyms, crowded beaches. Wilderness first aid training (which I’ve also done) is an entirely different beast from basic first aid and CPR training. Places with lots of people have working phones. Having been an Army medic in a past life, I assure you that I don’t need the basics of CPR quoted to me, and we’ll just have to agree to disagree whether it’s a reasonable assumption that every location in the world will always have a functioning cell phone in range of a cell phone tower and a rapid rescue response. At any rate this is a pointless digression, I’m not advising anyone not to do CPR, just playing a bit of devil’s advocate as to why, in the age of ubiquitous cell phone coverage, people might be a bit leery to be seen ripping the bra off an unconscious woman. If your position is that cell phone coverage is always universal, then that supports the fact that an passer-by might could start recording at any time, so extra care is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/107 "2024-03-10T13:43:18Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > people might be a bit leery to be seen ripping the bra off an unconscious woman. No, I think it’s a ludicrous fear because no one is going to mistake giving someone CPR with sexual assault. And has been asked already, can you show _one_ example of such a thing ever happening? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/108 "2024-03-10T14:53:44Z")
It was a DA statement. I doubt there are citations either way for what you’re asking. If I was a passerby and saw an incapacitated woman surrounded by strangers of which one or two decided to take action I admit I’d feel uncomfortable on behalf of the “patient” if they fussed about her underclothes to bare her chest rather than going straight to resuscitation. But in these days Id guess most passerby’s might assume overdose rather than heart attack. Narcan stat! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/109 "2024-03-10T15:22:08Z")
A good post. _Staying’ Alive_ also works well. In fairness, almost all my CPR is in a hospital setting which is not quite the same. Because dealing with codes is _emotionally exhausting_, regardless of your physical shape two minutes of CPR will always be challenging. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/110 "2024-03-10T15:45:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I was serious about that “more stamina”. I’m in mediocre shape. I get exhausted in CPR class doing > > Heck, you couldn’t even make it to the end of that sentence! That was actually a discourse bug, but well timed, i guess. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/111 "2024-03-10T15:47:51Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > > people might be a bit leery to be seen ripping the bra off an unconscious woman. > > No, I think it’s a ludicrous fear because no one is going to mistake giving someone CPR with sexual assault. This. CPR doesn’t look like sexual assault. I’ll say it again, i can understand a man who has been conditioned to avoid female breasts being reluctant to start CPR. Because that’s how conditioning works, and we do all sorts of irrational things. But there’s no rational reason, unless you are a crazy misogynist, to avoid doing CPR on a woman with breasts. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/112 "2024-03-10T16:14:42Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Are you saying I should have taken a step back and let her hit her head on something? Not me, I was never a bigwig in state government and I’m not sure how you got that idea. However, my direct supervisor would say that yes, you should have not touched her, you should have called 911. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/113 "2024-03-10T16:18:37Z")
My Sister was a biggish wig working for the state. She worked exclusively with elder care. Visited lots of facilities. Her state required her to have self defense classes. To work with geriatrics. 🤔 State jobs are not always sane in their thinking. (She was also certified in CPR) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/114 "2024-03-10T16:22:25Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Not me, I was never a bigwig in state government and I’m not sure how you got that idea. However, my direct supervisor would say that yes, you should have not touched her, you should have called 911. I had direct supervisors that would say the same - but that doesn’t mean it was the actual policy. Or that people would lose their jobs if the state got sued. Or that the person you asked even knew why you didn’t get emergency training. It’s entirely possible that you got zero emergency training because it just wasn’t particularly relevant to your job - I got it because I was a peace officer but the clerks in my office didn’t get that training and I doubt the clerks at the department of motor vehicles did. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/115 "2024-03-10T16:35:20Z")
When I was a clerk for the county, we got all of the emergency training everyone else did. Same when I worked for the feds. I got that sort of training when I was working for the county in a different state. That is why I asked about it when I started working for the state of Arizona. At one point in my life, I spent 8 years working in a warehouse for the county. I saw _maybe_ 3 people a day but I still had to recertify my first aid, CPR, defensive driving and defib training every year. As a food stamp eligibility worker, I spent my days in a crowded building full of people. Drug overdoses in the restroom happened often enough that they weren’t a source of gossip. People were sick, people brought in sick children and let them run around in the parking lot. “Service” dogs got into fights and bit people. If there was ever a job where some sort of first aid training was necessary, that one was it. Which is why I was so shocked to learn that the defibrillator case was locked because nobody was trained to use it. Of course, I’m sure your experience and knowledge overrules what I think I remember from a lifetime of government work, so I will just say that you are 100 percent right as usual and I will just take my false memories and go away. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/116 "2024-03-10T16:49:02Z")
I’m not really sure where you got all that about false memories from when I specifically said " It’s entirely possible" and “It doesn’t mean”. It’s not impossible that you both remembered correctly and the person you asked gave you incorrect information. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/117 "2024-03-10T20:48:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Most heart attacks happen in places where there are a lot of people. Churches, grocery stores, gyms, crowded beaches. Because of this, it is often assumed that someone in the crowd is already calling 911, that is a mistake. One of the first things a person should do, before starting CPR, is to point directly at someone and say “YOU, Call 911” if there is another person available tell them to assist her/him and make sure they follow through. This frees up the main person performing CPR to concentrate on the task at hand. Every training session I ever had, this was the first step, if you had anyone else around. “You!, call 911, you! help and make sure they do so.” Most people in an emergency situation would like to help, they hope for a good outcome, but they will not act. Telling them directly to act frees up their decision making. It is an odd facet of human behaviour but it is important to keep in mind. Even in a non-CPR situation, clear direction gets people moving. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/118 "2024-03-10T21:03:00Z")
I noticed with Ivy, my aide, that she gets bossy during emergency situations. It gets the job done. I appreciate someone willing to take control. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/119 "2024-03-10T21:25:26Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > One of the first things a person should do, before starting CPR, is to point directly at someone and say “YOU, Call 911” Even better, if possible (of course, it won’t always be) is to call someone out by name. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617/120 "2024-03-11T01:18:00Z")
> [@Nyvaak](#): > > At 110 per minute “_Another One Bites the Dust_.” is perfect, but only if you DON’T sing out loud. Can I sing _Another One Rides the Bus_ if I don’t remember the original words? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-28-less-likely-to-recieve-cpr-because-strangers-are-afraid-to-touch-them/998617.md?page=7)