# Women are more reluctant than men to date or marry down socio-economically. Is this bias changing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815 "2012-09-15T20:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/21 "2012-09-16T23:49:33Z")
My girlfriend is a mid level and riding pharmaceutical executive. I’m not. It’s not even close to being an issue. I have no idea if it’s a trend. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/22 "2012-09-17T00:38:06Z")
I read the wedding announcements in the paper every Sunday (and apropos of nothing, why is it 9 out of 10 brides seem to be teachers or nurses?) and just mentioned this to my friend. Every week there seems to be one glaring example of a professional woman marrying ‘down’. Last week a female doctor married, basically, a school janitor. This week a woman with two masters degrees in academia married a construction worker. Interesting. I think it can get very complicated, money, intelligence, and class getting all mixed. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/23 "2012-09-17T00:47:44Z")
Most of the “professional” women I know are married to men of equivalent ‘status’, but on different scales. If she has a higher degree, he makes more money; if she makes more money, he’s a university professor; if she has a higher degree and makes more money, he’s incredibly nice or hot. Professional women may be more selective in choosing a life partner, but is that a function of education, income, and social status, or simply of age? “Professional” women - which we seem to agree means women with college educations and career-track jobs - typically don’t get married at 18. But what the hell is an “inbuilt bias” in this context? Fabric has an inbuilt bias, humans have learned behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/24 "2012-09-17T01:11:01Z")
> [@j666](#): > > But what the hell is an “inbuilt bias” in this context? Fabric has an inbuilt bias, humans have learned behaviors. It’s a metaphor for the web of existing social expectations for professional women at relatively high social status and socio-economic levels, and how these expectations affect their behavior and decision making. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/25 "2012-09-17T01:22:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s the college degree. It’s a huge class signifier. A generation ago, there were still nice girls from nice families who didn’t go to college, but these days it’s pretty rare for an 18-year old from a “nice” family to graduate high school and just go to work. To be from a family that doesn’t just expect their kids to go to college suggests very blue collar or very rural roots, and a “professional wife” to a professional is supposed to be more educated and more ambitious than that. This rings true to me–especially the comment about more ambitious than that. Due to the difficulty of finding good childcare for small children that doesn’t cost a large share of her potential earnings (among other factors), my sis-in-law is a stay at home mom. Due to that sense that “there must be more to life than this” (and other factors), she homeschools her kids, and has some other significant creative outlets, that don’t bring in significant money. I don’t think it’s inevitably true, but I do think it happens. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/26 "2012-09-17T01:24:54Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’s a metaphor for the web of existing social expectations for professional women at relatively high social status and socio-economic levels, and how these expectations affect their behavior and decision making. Oh, pardon me. I though you were referring to an establish genetic tendency. ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/27 "2012-09-17T03:02:40Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Many younger woman don’t care about this as much, IME. I definitely notice that women in their early 20s don’t seem to care about this as much, although I’m not sure if that’s because almost ALL the guys their age are underemployed/unemployed, or if it’s just a generational difference. Perhaps they are not seriously thinking of marriage at that age. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/28 "2012-09-17T09:21:44Z")
I usually date down. Various reasons, mainly since I always dated people I meet outside of work. I probably needed a better class of friends somewhere along the line, earlier in my life.(That didn’t come out right… not a “better class” howabout a higher income group of friends) My husband is self employed, feast or famine. I am the one with the higher paying steady job. Most days I say it balances out because he is around for my son. Today I am bitter and frustrated so I probably shouldn’t say anything at all. Also… Not every nurse wants to marry a doctor. Most of us laugh at doctors behind their backs and say things like “behind every doctor there is a nurse who just stopped him from killing someone.” Like Narcan does not equal Nozinan. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/29 "2012-09-17T10:32:13Z")
Another factor in this, is simply that nowadays many people of both genders just struggle to meet potential partners. Especially so for hardworking professionals. And I think that it is women who desire (or are under more pressure), to be in a serious relationship by age X. The combination of those factors mean it’s often the case that women will settle, not just socio-economically, but looks, personality, everything. A lot of pairings seem to be “right place at the right time”. Of course I’m not claiming this happened for anyone that’s posted in this thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/30 "2012-09-17T11:36:44Z")
Amount of money does not necessarily equate to social status or the social view of the job or profession. It does not also equate to future earning potential. A female business executive may make substantially more than an Army officer (say a Major), but the social status is roughly the same. A newly minted doctor could easily make less than a plumber, carpenter, electrician of several years standing but has a higher social standing. A businesswoman marrying your a restaurant manger who going to law school will not expect the partner to remain lower forever. I have noticed that few women truly marry down; if the guy has a lower social status, he earns substantially more money, if he earns less, he has a job with a higher status. My plumber is married to a doctor. That guy owns his own company and probably makes much more than her. Actually, she is a government doctor, he certainly does make more than her. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/31 "2012-09-17T13:23:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I have noticed that few women truly marry down; if the guy has a lower social status, he earns substantially more money, if he earns less, he has a job with a higher status. My plumber is married to a doctor. That guy owns his own company and probably makes much more than her. Actually, she is a government doctor, he certainly does make more than her. I think you may not know a lot of women in their 20s and very early 30s. I can think of two of my wife’s friends, aged 32, right offhand who definitely “married down”. One is a doctor who married an EMT. They met in high school, each other’s first love. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/32 "2012-09-17T15:20:16Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I think you may not know a lot of women in their 20s and very early 30s. I can think of two of my wife’s friends, aged 32, right offhand who definitely “married down”. One is a doctor who married an EMT. They met in high school, each other’s first love. I know quite a few. And EMTs and paramedics can make a decent amount, experienced paramedics can make 60,000 a year. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/33 "2012-09-17T15:20:32Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Let’s not make it out to be that it’s only women who have problems marrying someone lower on the socio-economic laddder. Many, many men still have problems being with women who make more money than them. Many. That was my experience when I dated: it wasn’t me who had a problem “dating down” (since I knew that would reduce the pool to a tiny amount), it was them who claimed that they weren’t willing to “let” their women make more money than they made, or who told me such beauties as "but you can’t be an engineer, you’re a _girl!"_ Several of my high school friends are “married down” - heck, so is my sister in law, who’s got a higher degree and a job that’s better considered than my brother’s (she’s a doctor, he’s a construction foreman). He makes more money than she does when most of his income is under the table: when it’s above it, nowhere near. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/34 "2012-09-18T11:05:21Z")
About fifteen years ago, I dated a female doctor (an internalist) who told me that the residencies for some specialties (especially surgeons) were structured in a way that made them pretty much impossible, unless the resident was either single, or had a stay-at-home spouse - a person who had to share household/childrearing duties would not make it. Her sister was an opthamologist, and in her residency, there were ten men and two women. Both women were single; all the men had stay-at-home wives. (She contended that this was a factor in the predominance of male surgeons.) Notably, neither of the female residents had stay-at-home husbands. My friend believed this was because of the aversion many female surgeons would have to marrying someone below their station, so to speak. An exception to this would be if the husband had great accomplishments that he was resting on - Olympic athlete, or dot-com millionaire - but these are rare instances. A year or so ago, I was talking with a colleague about this. His wife was completing her residency (psychiatry). He told me that in her residency class, there were several women who had stay-at-home husbands. So the bias may be changing. The increased difficulty over the last few decades of making it into professional ranks may play a part. ---
**Author:** ![smokey78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@smokey78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smokey78)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/35 "2012-09-18T13:03:06Z")
I knew of a female pediatrician who married a blacksmith. I knew two pharmacists who married female doctors. For one of them, who was my preceptor, it was a blessing he worked less hours and was in home with time to cook and clean the house cuz his wife worked many long hrs. I saw her office once at the waiting room was filled to the brim with patients. My doctor friend married another doctor, they met in medical school. She works significantly less and can spend more time with their baby son. It may seem cool to work part time and get six figures, but when u factor in student loans yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/36 "2012-09-19T15:59:51Z")
I can only speak for myself. I am attracted to males with higher levels of education and/or levels of expertise in their trades because I value intelligence and ambition. Those folks happen to make more money. I could care less how much money my partner makes, as long as we’re paying the bills. ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815/37 "2012-09-19T16:33:07Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I’m a female doctor… (snip) > > Plus there’s the issue that many women see marrying a doctor as “winning the jackpot” so you’re faced with a lot more competition when you aim only for doctors or other “rich guys”. I would rather marry a guy who is in a respectable but not high-paying job and enjoy having him to myself than worry about the techs/aides/nurses/etc. at work hitting on my doctor hubby. 🙂 I know that this last paragraph of your post wasn’t your major point, but it’s actually the crux of the matter to my mind. Women of lower socioeconomic status still actively compete to “marry up.” Men, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-more-reluctant-than-men-to-date-or-marry-down-socio-economically-is-this-bias-changing/634815.md?page=1)