# Women are not necessarily whores. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415 "2007-12-27T22:10:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/41 "2007-12-28T04:56:37Z")
Funnily enough, my sister-in-law (who never wanted nor wants to have children) for some reason is allowing the possibility, probably out of pity for my brother who always wanted children. We won’t go into THAT. Anyway, she told me that if she ever gets pregnant, she expects to get a brand new Ferrari as a \payment\ gift. You know? All I ever wanted while pregnant or after my babies were born…was an unbroken night of sleep. As if a Ferrari can give you that. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/42 "2007-12-28T05:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > When those commercials come on, I always think: “Every fuck begins with F.” My wife and I call them Bee Jewelers, because every blowjob begins with Bee! ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/43 "2007-12-28T05:09:35Z")
BRAVO!! Excellent, excellent first posting. You must join us. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/44 "2007-12-28T05:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=Chotii] Anyway, she told me that if she ever gets pregnant, she expects to get a brand new Ferrari as a \payment\ gift. [/QUOTE] The code you’re looking for is \strikeout\. Like [del]this[/del]. ETA: I forgot to jump onto the band wagon hoping the OP will stick around. Similar to the OP’s complaint - I’d always been struck by people running down “mail-order brides” then talking about the show _The Bachelor_, which they watched religiously. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/45 "2007-12-28T05:15:45Z")
Anyway, she told me that if she ever gets pregnant, she expects to get a brand new Ferrari as a [del]payment[/del] gift. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/46 "2007-12-28T05:29:08Z")
While I tend to agree with the general idea, what the OP is proposing would shatter the U.S. economy. In the context of looking for a non-long term relationship (i.e. just looking for pussy), the suggestions the OP gives men, while morally sound, are unworkable. Beggars can not be choosers, after all. If that proposal did work it would be the norm already. The current setup is the most efficient and respectful paradigm possible in our current culture. And despite the protests of the OP to the contrary it is painfully obvious why this situation would never work in reverse, i.e. why men are the beggars in this setup. “I think men talk to women so they can sleep with them and women sleep with men so they can talk to them.” - Jay McInerney > [@VarlosZ](#): > > Totally off-topic, but I’m a little surprised to read that you’re a woman, as you write like a guy. I can’t be specific about why that’s so – something about the way you use parentheticals and dependent clauses, maybe – but there’s something about your writing style that just seems … male. Most likely it’s just that it reminds me of my own prose. Anything is possible on the internet and I wouldn’t guess one way or the other on the OP, but you shouldn’t trust your feelings too much. Determining gender over the internet is nearly impossible in my experience, especially given the amount of what our forefathers would call tomboys (peace and blessings be upon them). ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/47 "2007-12-28T05:30:47Z")
すごい！ A most excellent OP. I’m a little drunk, so I wont make any specific comments, but I truly loved that spiel (schpiel? How do you spell that?) ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/48 "2007-12-28T05:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] Anything is possible on the internet and I wouldn’t guess one way or the other on the OP, but you shouldn’t trust your feelings too much. Determining gender over the internet is nearly impossible in my experience… [/QUOTE] Except when the OP says “I own a vagina. It’s mine. I like it.” As long as that’s not part of a drawn-out metaphor, or some far-out BDSM slang for having a wife, and given the OP’s further confession to having a uterus, we can be reasonably sure that the OP is biologically female. I’m willing to take the plunge and guess that the OP is a “she”. A clever, well-spoken she. Join up, tea-lady. We’ve got pie to spare. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/49 "2007-12-28T05:53:46Z")
Beautiful post. And in the Pit, no less. You win the Straight Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/50 "2007-12-28T05:57:43Z")
**Varlos Z** , you are so right. This is no woman. Just the Great Pretender who shows up from time to time – usually from an IP in the Midwest. (And no, I don’t have access to the IP numbers.) He says a lot of things that don’t really _mean_ anything. Example: > [@](#): > > Disclaimerization: I respect women who choose to save themselves for marriage or some other cultural institution, so long as they do it honestly. How can you dishonestly save yourself for marriage? He begins this rant by talking about being angry over listening to ads and then finally decides to make his point about wanting women not to be whorish – but be slutty instead. Yeah, right. When he addresses the women to give advice, he speaks directly to them telling them what _they_ should do – using the word “you.” When he addresses the men to give advice, he speaks directly to them, but talks about women and what to watch out for. He refers to women as _they_ and _them_ rather than _we_ and _us_. Judging from the words that he used in the OP to describe vaginas, I don’t think this fellow ever met one that he really liked. Buy the way, **Tea** , the only person who was bought off around here was a male. He is not representative of the other men here. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/51 "2007-12-28T06:18:56Z")
Aww, bummer **Zoe**. I’m beginning to see your point. I was hoping for a real live one. [QUOTE=A Priori Tea] Absolutely. That was part of the point of the disclaimerization - I understand that a significant portion of the female gender has decided that this is a really awesome way to live. I support their ability to make that choice, and I would not take that ability away from them if I had the power. **What I will do is refuse to date them** , buy them things, or recommend them to others as date-worthy material. If they want to be part of a free market economy, that’s fine; I will use the appropriate methods within our society to influence their value in that economy. That doesn’t mean I’m going to sabotage their relationships, or go out of my way to convince others not to date them - I don’t have the time or motivation for that, and I would feel distinctly oogy about it in the bargain. I will offer my honest opinion of their motivations and methods if asked, though, which often leads to me being unwelcome in the sort of group that expects polite lies. 🙂 [/QUOTE] (bold added) Here she/he talks about women who date men and then claims that she/he refuses to date them. Now I guess that could mean that she is gay. But even that changes the context of the OP in some ways that are not as upfront as it claims to be. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/52 "2007-12-28T06:22:32Z")
Just to point out that if someone paid her membership she’s be a word whore. Which is what I want to be – why isn’t anyone offering to pay my membership fee in exchange for my wise words? Perhaps it relates to my lack of a vagina… Oh never mind, I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/53 "2007-12-28T06:39:48Z")
Should a woman sleep with a man that she doesn’t find sexy? No? Okay then. Let’s a make a list of things women find sexy: 1. Physique, so she feels safe and secure 2. Money, so she feels safe and secure 3. Power, so she feels safe and secure. 1 extends to other features of general “good looks”. 2 extends to the buying of things, the practice you despise so much. 3 can be anything from social elevation (the “cool” guys) to CEO/Presidential status. You’re trying to knock a leg out from under one of the requirements of sexiness, hardwired by our genes. Women don’t ‘trade’ gifts for sex, it’s just that gift=money=security=sexiness=sex. BTW, it’s well known that women want and enjoy sex just as much as guys. That’s not the problem. It’s that they don’t want it _as often_. Every time I hear a girl say that, I go “Ok fine, prove it. You and me, right now. Let’s go.” Works every time. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/54 "2007-12-28T06:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] (bold added) Here she/he talks about women who date men and then claims that she/he refuses to date them. Now I guess that could mean that she is gay. But even that changes the context of the OP in some ways that are not as upfront as it claims to be. [/QUOTE] Hate to say it, but that jarred me too. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Priori\_Tea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@A\_Priori\_Tea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Priori_Tea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/55 "2007-12-28T07:08:16Z")
My, oh my! I was hoping to get a few responses, but the praise is going to go straight to my head, just so you know. Thank you, the many of you who have expressed support and/or admiration - I appreciate your kind words. I am already planning on subscribing when my guest membership expires (that was what I asked for for Christmas, actually, but I got something quite different that I will enjoy equally). I look forward to all sorts of interesting conversations to come! 🆒 Speaking of interesting conversations, this is definitely a turn I didn’t expect this thread to take, but I am so thoroughly entertained that I wish I had anticipated it, so I could respond with more serious points, and less giggling. **Zoe** , please forgive me selecting just your post - it contains most of the arguments I’d like to address, and I’m trying not to miss anything. [QUOTE=Zoe] **Varlos Z** , you are so right. This is no woman. Just the Great Pretender who shows up from time to time – usually from an IP in the Midwest. (And no, I don’t have access to the IP numbers.) He says a lot of things that don’t really _mean_ anything. Example: How can you dishonestly save yourself for marriage? He begins this rant by talking about being angry over listening to ads and then finally decides to make his point about wanting women not to be whorish – but be slutty instead. Yeah, right. When he addresses the women to give advice, he speaks directly to them telling them what _they_ should do – using the word “you.” When he addresses the men to give advice, he speaks directly to them, but talks about women and what to watch out for. He refers to women as _they_ and _them_ rather than _we_ and _us_. Judging from the words that he used in the OP to describe vaginas, I don’t think this fellow ever met one that he really liked. Buy the way, **Tea** , the only person who was bought off around here was a male. He is not representative of the other men here. [/QUOTE] To take these one at a time: I am not from the Midwest. I am in Florida, and have only visited the Midwest. I probably phrased the “saving yourself for marriage” bit poorly - what I intended to convey is that I don’t mind others choosing chastity over sluttiness, even though I choose differently. What I mind is the way that chastity is so often used as a weapon or a bargaining chip; I consider that dishonest, and I think that it makes a very poor way to structure the power in a modern relationship. I spoke directly to both men and women, using “they” and “you” - not “we” or “us” - because I did not feel that in either case I was addressing a group to which I belong. The women I was giving advice to were, in my mind, those women who feel that being a sexual commodity is necessary to function in our culture. The men I was speaking to (and women who date women) were (again in my mind) the ones who feel that catering to this particular sexual agenda is necessary in order to get laid, ever. When I talk about or to poly folk, or bi folk, or sluts, or perverts, or any other group to which I feel I belong, then I will use “we” and “us.” I don’t think that refusing to identify with a segment of one gender disqualifies me from membership entirely, as I’m sure you’ll agree. 🙂 If you feel that I somehow misled the reader in failing to mention my sexual preference in the original post, I apologize for the confusion. I didn’t feel that it was cogent to my point, but I can see how it could be construed differently. I can see how my use of irony in addressing vaginae could come across as less than funny, if the humor doesn’t come through in text. I assure you, though, that I have met a number of Caverns of Mysterious Wonder that I liked immensely, including my own. Also, I think that we probably have a wildly different view of what “slutty” connotes - to me, it’s actually a very positive word. I am a slut, and I enjoy that fact. I am picky about my partners, but I think that once I’ve chosen, there is no reason not to enjoy my relationships to the fullest. I take a lot of pleasure in talking to women who are afraid of or put off by their own sexual urges, and working with them to see how they are really quite normal, and not to be feared or shut away. (There’s “them” again - this time, because I’m talking about “women who are afraid of or put off by their own sexual urges,” and not “all biological women.” I’m fairly sure that it’s an accurate and clear antecedent, but please correct me if I am wrong.) I really, sincerely wish that women felt no pressure to be whorish in order to get their way - and I really, sincerely wish that women could take joy in being as slutty as they like, and no more. I don’t see that those two wishes are in conflict, and I hope that I’ve explained why that is clearly. While I’m familiar with the **prr** debacle (I was an unregistered lurker at the time), I don’t see how it’s particularly applicable - nowhere here did I claim that Dopers are easily or regularly bought off. I am pretty complimented by the idea that I write in a masculine way, but I find it endlessly entertaining that I come across as a misogynistic gender-faker. (Is that a word? Maybe it should be.) I wish I could offer you more concrete assurances of my honesty, but this is the internet. If you choose not to believe me, that’s obviously your right. Thank you, though, for making your opinion known so clearly and concisely; it makes for an interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/56 "2007-12-28T07:45:32Z")
This is one of the best guest OPs I’ve seen in a long time. Clear, pointed, funny, and true. You simply must stick around. Oh, and I prefer “Golden Palace of the Himalayas” myself. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/57 "2007-12-28T08:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=A Priori Tea] Speaking of interesting conversations, this is definitely a turn I didn’t expect this thread to take, but I am so thoroughly entertained that I wish I had anticipated it, so I could respond with more serious points, and less giggling. **Zoe** , please forgive me selecting just your post - it contains most of the arguments I’d like to address, and I’m trying not to miss anything. [/QUOTE] Well, frankly I don’t care whether you’re male, female or both. I’m just hoping that you don’t disappear as a dirty old sock. You sure know a lot about this place. I didn’t even get the **prr** reference and I was here at the time. But your writing is great and I hope to see more of it. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/58 "2007-12-28T08:32:12Z")
\: Genre: Informal Female = 2726 Male = 3206 Difference = 480; 54.04% Verdict: Weak MALE Weak emphasis could indicate European. \ Teehee! Why would a weak male indicate European? Oh, and I prefer in the future instead of using the word “whore” or “slut” you use the word “friendly.” But yeah, I hate that crap. Makes real people look bad, of all sexes. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/59 "2007-12-28T10:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=Auntbeast] Teehee! Why would a weak male indicate European? [/QUOTE] Oh fie! That accusation leaves me faint. Oh lawks, I think I’m going… Where are my smelling salts… Pass my my lace handkerchief… Ooooh! ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415/60 "2007-12-28T12:47:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Yep, the OP. Come on, you were asking for it. [/QUOTE] ZING! Really though. Is my reading that off? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-not-necessarily-whores/431415.md?page=4)