# Women are the fairer sex. Your opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938 "2010-10-31T00:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/181 "2010-11-04T22:56:03Z")
Isn’t it more demonizing to men to say that it’s normal sexual desires that makes a man rape? By that extension, if any guy gets horny enough, he’ll commit rape. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/182 "2010-11-04T23:09:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Isn’t it more demonizing to men to say that it’s normal sexual desires that makes a man rape? By that extension, if any guy gets horny enough, he’ll commit rape. But that’s exactly what is implied by the whole “rape is about power” idea. Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape; saying that rape is about power is an accusation that men are all motivated by the desire for power women more than anything else. More than lust, more than greed, more than _anything_. “Rape is about power” is a _political_ statement, a subset of the whole idea that men are all part of a vast conspiracy to keep women down. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/183 "2010-11-04T23:23:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > saying that rape is about power is an accusation that men are all motivated by the desire for power women more than anything else No, it isn’t. Not even kinda. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/184 "2010-11-04T23:26:56Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > No, it isn’t. Not even kinda. Yes, it is since the alternative is the even sillier claim that no man who lacks an agenda against women will _ever_ rape, regardless of how ruthless he is. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/185 "2010-11-04T23:40:26Z")
**Redpill** : You have said repeatedly in this thread words to the effect that unless a guy finds a woman attractive he won’t be able to get it up and thence rape her. Do you not think that some men get hard for reasons other than seeing an attractive woman? Men can and do get erections in non-sexual situations for reasons other than physical attraction. It is a truism in criminology that sado-sexual serial killers gradually evolve (if not apprehended) to the point where killing is the priority and sex, rape, is an afterthought. What drives, what arouses, is the taking of another’s life - the exercise of the ultimate power. A classic example of this is Ken Bianchi, one of the LA stranglers (i.e. [the dual murder on January 11, 1979](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Bianchi#Murders) that finally led to his arrest). ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/186 "2010-11-04T23:50:13Z")
> [@The\_Unexpected\_Okapi\_Debacle](#): > > Sexual arousal is not dependent on physical attraction. There do exist people who get turned on by the idea of attacking an unwilling, non-consenting indivdual. Arousal comes in many, many [forms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias). So do women who get off by fantasizing of rape. I you are gonna find exceptions to support your claim, so can I. Even in those exception, physical attraction to the other person is necessary to actually perform the act. > [@The\_Unexpected\_Okapi\_Debacle](#): > > When someone is using their penis as a weapon, do you really think they are looking that closely? They’re just aiming and shooting, period. They see the victim as a recepticle for their aggression/anger/psychoses, nothing more… You watch too many movies. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What about in cases when they use weapons like sticks or in some case fire guns into the vagina? It seems like the object is less to get off and more to cause pain/suffering. I’m strictly talking about rapes involving erection. Way to follow the debate. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Isn’t it more demonizing to men to say that it’s normal sexual desires that makes a man rape? By that extension, if any guy gets horny enough, he’ll commit rape. No there’s no such extension. That’s like saying because “people who steal food are usually hungry” leads to " if a person gets hungry he’ll steal food. " ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/187 "2010-11-04T23:59:46Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > **Redpill** : > It is a truism in criminology that sado-sexual serial killers gradually evolve (if not apprehended) to the point where killing is the priority and sex, rape, is an afterthought. What drives, what arouses, is the taking of another’s life - the exercise of the ultimate power. Even in these rare forms of rape cases the killer only choses those who he finds attractive. I think it would be more appropriate to call these crimes primarily homicides. I’m discussing rape only. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/188 "2010-11-05T00:02:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But that’s exactly what is implied by the whole “rape is about power” idea. Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape; saying that rape is about power is an accusation that men are all motivated by the desire for power women more than anything else. This is one bucket of crazy. Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape? I don’t see how you can type this out and still not see that it is _you_ who is demonizing men. That goes for **Redpill** too, who for some reason thinks being a man gives him special insight into a rapist’s mind. It’s like saying with a straight face that Jeffery Dahmer was just like other men. Except for the whole murdering, cannibalism thing. But I guess that’s a tiny detail. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/189 "2010-11-05T00:17:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > That goes for **Redpill** too, who for some reason thinks being a man gives him special insight into a rapist’s mind. Does you being a woman give you a special insight into what makes a woman wet? Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/190 "2010-11-05T00:37:16Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > Does you being a woman give you a special insight into what makes a woman wet? Same thing. If simply being male gives you special insight into this [madness](http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84010) and this [madness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo) and this [madness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_Jogger_case), then it’s time for me to become lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/191 "2010-11-05T00:51:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > …it’s time for me to become lesbian. Yeah, I think it might work out better that way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/192 "2010-11-05T01:19:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape? I don’t see how you can type this out and still not see that it is _you_ who is demonizing men. That’s only “demonizing men” if you buy into the whole idea that rape is always part of an anti-woman agenda; the very thing I’m arguing against. Otherwise, it isn’t any more demonizing of men than saying that “everyone wants money, but muggers are the ones willing to bash you on the head and take it”. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s like saying with a straight face that Jeffery Dahmer was just like other men. Except for the whole murdering, cannibalism thing. But I guess that’s a tiny detail. No, that’s a silly comparison. Most people have no desire to eat other people at all. Rape, murder and theft though - there are women I find attractive, people I hate, money & property I’d like to have; merely removing my moral self restraint would straightforwardly lead me to rape, murder and robbery. Not because I am demonic, but because that’s how someone with no moral restraint acts if they can get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/193 "2010-11-05T01:43:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s only “demonizing men” if you buy into the whole idea that rape is always part of an anti-woman agenda; Is it pro-woman? This is a baffling conversation. Normal men are not rapists. Most men are not rapists. There is a subset of men who are rapists. That subset does not appear to rape out of desire for a sexual release that can be achieved via other means. They can have consensual sex with a woman in the morning and rape another, or the same, woman that evening. They can have a wife or another available partner and still rape because they don’t want sex from the rape, they want rape from the rape. They can be turned on and attracted solely to women yet rape other men to humiliate them and demonstrate their power. Some people get off on having other people in their power. You know this. I know you know this. You aren’t saying all men are evil and oppressing women when you talk about the ones who do, so why are you claiming that **I’m** saying that all men are evil and oppressing women when I talk about the ones who do? Rapists don’t, in my opinion, have an agenda other than, “I want to hurt this person. I want to damage and control and humiliate this person. I want this person afraid. I want to savor this. I want to remember how it feels to have someone so frightened, so helpless, and in my power.” That’s not a normal man. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/194 "2010-11-05T01:46:22Z")
> [@Dolly\_Madison](#): > > Not really–rape is about being sexually aroused by absolute power over another being. Specifically the lack of consent is a big turn-on for a rapist: it is the violation of another person’s will (regardless of who that person is, old or young) that is the goal for the sexual deviant. Violating a person’s will is the mark of a sociopath, and all rapists are sociopaths. Without agreeing with Redpill by any means, you’ve made a number of assertions here that are both dubious and without supporting evidence: 1. The old saw that “Rape is about power, not sex” is something that was largely borne of political opinion about 25 years ago and which seems, almost self-evidently, to be a wild oversimplification, and 2. The claim that all rapists are sociopaths is flatly preposterous. Unless, of course, you have supporting evidence, I simply do not believe it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/195 "2010-11-05T01:48:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It does have to do with being young. Most rape victims are between 14-24 years of age, IIRC. Which correlates roughly not only with peak dating periods, but also with the period most often considered sexually desirable. The factual element of this is surprisingly correct. Dating age women are significantly more likely to be raped. It is possible to argue this is because dating age women tend to be considered more attractive. What is also possible, and IMHO likely, is that rape is, in the majority of cases, a crime of opportunity. The majority of rapes are acquaintance rapes. Women of the dating age rage are much more likely to be in a position where a rape is more likely. Saying rape is about X, if X is attraction, lust, hatred for women etc is an overstatement. Rape is about all of them at different times. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/196 "2010-11-05T01:51:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s only “demonizing men” if you buy into the whole idea that rape is always part of an anti-woman agenda; the very thing I’m arguing against. Which means you’re arguing against a straw man. No one has said rape is always part of anti-woman agenda. This is a phantom that you’re railing against. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/197 "2010-11-05T01:56:00Z")
I won’t say rape is never about power, but I will say that I do believe rape is often about sex. Almost always, probably. It ends in ejaculation (usually) and that is a sexual response. If a girl and a guy who have always gotten along just dandy end up in his room and she is kissing him and grinding him and his penis is getting rock hard and she changes her mind at the last minute, but he already has his knees between hers and he knows that if he just holds her tight and covers her mouth and thrusts a few short inches in front of him he will feel that feeling his body is calling for…I gotta call that sex rape more than power rape. Now if a man shoots a gun into a vagina (WTF, Freudian? I never knew of such atrocities, and I thought I had read the craziest atrocities when it came to war stories) I will go ahead and call that power rape. For sure. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/198 "2010-11-05T02:02:28Z")
“Rape is about power, not sex” was probably coined so that people could stop being fixated on the sexual attractiveness of the victim and focus it on the “attractiveness” of coercion in the mind of the rapist. It is an oversimplication, because _obviously_ sex is involved. But when you’re dealing with a dumbass public who thinks you can compell a man to rape by being attractive enough, one has to resort to oversimplified messages to change their thinking around. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/199 "2010-11-05T02:09:27Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > If a girl and a guy who have always gotten along just dandy end up in his room and she is kissing him and grinding him and his penis is getting rock hard and she changes her mind at the last minute, but he already has his knees between hers and he knows that if he just holds her tight and covers her mouth and thrusts a few short inches in front of him he will feel that feeling his body is calling for… What? None of this stuff? : > [@jsgoddess](#): > > “I want to hurt this person. I want to damage and control and humiliate this person. I want this person afraid. I want to savor this. I want to remember how it feels to have someone so frightened, so helpless, and in my power.” What’s the sensationalism in that? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938/200 "2010-11-05T03:03:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Is it pro-woman? No, rape isn’t typically pro-anything; it’s self indulgence. Not everything in the world is motivated by politics. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > There is a subset of men who are rapists. That subset does not appear to rape out of desire for a sexual release that can be achieved via other means. They can have consensual sex with a woman in the morning and rape another, or the same, woman that evening. They can have a wife or another available partner and still rape because they don’t want sex from the rape, they want rape from the rape. No; usually it is the men who find it difficult to get a willing partner who rape. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > They can be turned on and attracted solely to women yet rape other men to humiliate them and demonstrate their power. No, rape in prison is primarily about deprivation combined with ruthlessness. Which is why they stop raping other men when they are out of prison despite being just as nasty people outside as they were inside. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Some people get off on having other people in their power. You know this. I know you know this. You aren’t saying all men are evil and oppressing women when you talk about the ones who do, so why are you claiming that **I’m** saying that all men are evil and oppressing women when I talk about the ones who do? Because claiming that no men anywhere are just selfishly indulging their lust is part of the attempt to portray all men as part of some woman hating monolith. Rapists in this case being an example of “acceptable targets”; if you complain about how men are being portrayed you get bashed as a defender of rape. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Rapists don’t, in my opinion, have an agenda other than, “I want to hurt this person. I want to damage and control and humiliate this person. I want this person afraid. I want to savor this. I want to remember how it feels to have someone so frightened, so helpless, and in my power.” > > That’s not a normal man. Nor is it a normal rapist. That’s more of a feminist caricature of men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-are-the-fairer-sex-your-opinions/558938.md?page=11)