# Women Artists Who are Horrible People **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921 "2016-12-05T13:49:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/121 "2018-07-25T13:44:52Z")
Yeah, but being a pain in the ass doesn’t really ping my ‘horrible’ meter. Most people are selfish in some way, and that’s not really climbing the ladder. Was Freddie Mercury ‘horrible’ because he was such a diva? If not, there’s no reason to ding others. On a sort of ‘meta’ scale I might nominate so-called ‘reality’ stars like the Kardashians and Paris Hilton and such. By commanding the spotlight to such a degree they alter expectations of young women and subvert - in my kids circle, anyway - the types of things they strive for. I hear more ‘I want to be a celeb and live great’ rather than even ‘I want to act’ or ‘I want to be an engineer’. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/122 "2018-07-25T14:12:36Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Ironic combination of username and opinion. You, uh, might want to read for context. The post _immediately after the one you quoted_ makes the irony clear: it’s asinine to suggest that a woman is “horrible” because she doesn’t act like someone’s prejudicial notions of a 50 year old should act. The gold standard in this thread is a woman who raped her children while running interference for her pedophile husband. Also, we don’t really have comics threads anymore, and the inspiration isn’t being published nowadays, but [my username](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightray_(DC_Comics)) doesn’t have the faintest thing to do with Madonna songs. Although I do like “Ray of Light.” > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yeah, but being a pain in the ass doesn’t really ping my ‘horrible’ meter. Most people are selfish in some way, and that’s not really climbing the ladder. Was Freddie Mercury ‘horrible’ because he was such a diva? If not, there’s no reason to ding others. Exactly. There’s been a rather horrible double standard going on in this thread, where women are being tagged as “horrible” because of things that men would not only get a pass for, but which are often how society would expect men to act. To me, citing that someone bullied women into a sex cult and branded them as sex slaves is good evidence that is probably a horrible person. Throwing vague shade about rumors that a woman is difficult to work with, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/123 "2018-07-25T19:36:34Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Linda Fiorentino is notoriously irascible, but I cannot find any anecdotes to corroborate that. the story is she was supposed to be in Men in Black 2 but was not because she was very hard to work with. (she was made a woman in black at the end of the first MIB) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/124 "2018-07-25T20:01:17Z")
Kevin Smith was warned about Linda Fiorentino’s behavior before he hired her for _Dogma_. But he went with her anyway. He has mentioned several times his regret at not listening to the warnings. OTOH, she wasn’t apparently as difficult to work with as Bruce Willis in _Cop Out_. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/125 "2018-07-25T20:11:14Z")
To be fair, when someone in Hollywood gets a message that an actress is impossible to work with, it could just mean that she wouldn’t allow herself to be molested by Harvey Weinstein. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/126 "2018-07-25T21:15:09Z")
Not a horrible person but Sinead O’Connor is dealing with some severe mental illness issues that I can only imagine make the life of those around her pretty hellacious. Does anyone still believe that Courtney Love killed her husband? That was a prominent CT a while back. If it’s true, that would make her pretty horrible. (IMO she’s not very horrible, just a messed up person) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/127 "2018-07-25T22:03:38Z")
So… the way I see it the only two “horrible people” in this thread comparable to the likes of Weinstein, Saville, or Cosby would be Marion Zimmer Bradly and Alison Mack. Meaning, they aren’t just bitchy or divas or “difficult to work with” but committing criminal acts and getting their rocks of by abusing (sexually and otherwise) other people. Any other women come to mind for inclusion in the Legion of Evil? ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/128 "2018-07-25T22:26:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… the way I see it the only two “horrible people” in this thread comparable to the likes of Weinstein, Saville, or Cosby would be Marion Zimmer Bradly and Alison Mack. Meaning, they aren’t just bitchy or divas or “difficult to work with” but committing criminal acts and getting their rocks of by abusing (sexually and otherwise) other people. > > Any other women come to mind for inclusion in the Legion of Evil? Ann Sexton, physical and sexual molestation of her daughter, has already come up. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/129 "2018-07-25T22:27:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… the way I see it the only two “horrible people” in this thread comparable to the likes of Weinstein, Saville, or Cosby would be Marion Zimmer Bradly and Alison Mack. Meaning, they aren’t just bitchy or divas or “difficult to work with” but committing criminal acts and getting their rocks of by abusing (sexually and otherwise) other people. You may have missed Mary Ellison, aka [The Fabulous Moolah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabulous_Moolah#Financial_and_sexual_exploitation) above. Nothing proven in a court of law, but there is an awful lot of hearsay. There have been some truly evil women out there, including some sadistic murderers. But if we’re talking celebrity evil, usually it comes in two forms - sexual and/or financial exploitation. And compared to men, women only rarely have the right combination of both power and tendency to carry that through. So you’ve got Bradley preying on her powerless children, Mack acting as a cult sub-leader and Ellison( potentially )being in a rare female position of authority in a shady corner of the entertaiment business. I imagine ther have been some established and vindictive actors that have managed to snuff out the potential career of a some young up-and-comer at some point. That would certainly qualify. But for all the rumors I imagine those are mostly undocumented/unproveable. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/130 "2018-07-26T12:38:47Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > I read a harrowing account by David Niven who talked about having to stay with her [Vivian Leigh] after her breakdown during “Elephant Walk” where she was replaced by Elizabeth Taylor. David said she was completely manic, wouldn’t sleep, eat, or put on any clothes, and of course tried to seduce him. It took he and two other people to hold down this tiny woman while she fought and bit and scratched like a tiger… I have always wondered about the identity of the actress in that chapter, and had suspected that the character was a composite of young actresses aging out of glamor roles in Hollywood. I’ll have to go back and see if I can fit Leigh into that story. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/131 "2018-07-26T13:26:57Z")
Patty Duke suffered from bipolar condition, which made her a very nasty person. However, she clung to the belief that John Astin fathered her son Sean, even after DNA testing proved he was the genetic son of Michael Tell, whom Duke claims she never had sex with, so the test must wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/132 "2018-07-26T15:45:31Z")
While not a child molester or cultist, opera singer [Kathleen Battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Battle) was nonetheless legendarily difficult to work with. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > As Battle’s status grew, so did her reputation for being difficult and demanding. In October 1992 when she opened the Boston Symphony Orchestra season, she reportedly banned an assistant conductor and other musicians from her rehearsals, changed hotels several times, and left behind what a report in The Boston Globe called “a froth of ill will”. In February 1994, during rehearsals for an upcoming production of La fille du régiment at the Metropolitan Opera, Battle was said to have subjected her fellow performers to “withering criticism” and made “almost paranoid demands that they not look at her.” General Manager Joseph Volpe responded by dismissing Battle from the production for “unprofessional actions” during rehearsals. Volpe called Battle’s conduct “profoundly detrimental to the artistic collaboration among all the cast members” and indicated that he had “canceled all offers that have been made for the future.” Battle was replaced in La fille du régiment by Harolyn Blackwell. At the time of her termination from the Met, Michael Walsh of Time magazine reported that “the cast of The Daughter of the Regiment applauded when it was told during rehearsal that Battle had been fired.” After she sang with the San Francisco Opera at this time, several backstage workers wore T-shirts that read: “I survived the Battle”. Let’s be clear here - operatic divas are par for the course in the industry, and yet Battle was so bad she got fired during a high point in her career. That takes some doing. From what I remember of the period and the various stories circulating in the classical music world, I would guess that Battle was probably in the process of having a minor mental breakdown. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/133 "2018-07-26T17:16:10Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > I’d echo votes for Courtney Love and Madonna with Courtney being the most deplorable. Abusing and neglecting your own children is another level. > Halle Berry? > Lindsay Lohan? > Mariah Carey? Lindsay Lohan is an addict whose personal problems are to a large extent her mothers’ fault. I don’t think that makes her equivalent to Nazis and child abusers [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/134 "2018-07-26T18:07:17Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Kevin Smith was warned about Linda Fiorentino’s behavior before he hired her for _Dogma_. But he went with her anyway. He has mentioned several times his regret at not listening to the warnings. > > OTOH, she wasn’t apparently as difficult to work with as Bruce Willis in _Cop Out_. To put this in perspective, Smith also worked with Shannen Doherty and said he had no problems working with her. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/135 "2018-07-28T01:27:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Lindsay Lohan is an addict whose personal problems are to a large extent her mothers’ fault. I don’t think that makes her equivalent to Nazis and child abusers Lindsay Lohan’s mother Dina would probably qualify for being a horrible person, but I not sure that she has done anything that would qualify her as being an “artist”. I’m sure there have been plenty of other stage moms that as bad or worse than hers. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/136 "2018-07-28T01:59:37Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Patty Duke suffered from bipolar condition, which made her a very nasty person. However, she clung to the belief that John Astin fathered her son Sean, even after DNA testing proved he was the genetic son of Michael Tell, whom Duke claims she never had sex with, so the test must wrong. No, she kept telling him that his father was Desi Arnaz Jr. As for Courtney Love, it wasn’t just the drugs. While they’ve since made up, at one point her own daughter had a restraining order against her. And she’s got at least six or seven dis songs written about her. She’s apparently a really hateful individual. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/137 "2018-07-28T04:57:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > While not a child molester or cultist, opera singer [Kathleen Battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Battle) was nonetheless legendarily difficult to work with… I think it was Battle who, the story goes, called her agent from the backseat of a limo to ask him to call the boss of the driver to order the driver to turn off the radio - she naturally would not lower herself to speak to such a peon directly. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/138 "2018-07-28T23:15:30Z")
I agree that most of the women listed in this thread are not “horrible” people. And by the way, thank you to all that linked to a Wiki page, I’m on my phone and it’s hard going back and forth from Google to this thread. Damnit. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/139 "2018-07-29T02:03:26Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Not a horrible person but Sinead O’Connor is dealing with some severe mental illness issues that I can only imagine make the life of those around her pretty hellacious. Why have those with a mental illness been included? Do people complain about the difficulty of having to put up with those with medical conditions that can impact those they work with, or is it “ok” to have to lie down with a migraine, or to faint when your blood sugar drops or to take lots of breaks when your angina is causing you pain? To hold somebody who has an illness to account for behaviour attributable to that illness is not something that belongs in a thread about “horrible people”, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921/140 "2018-07-29T07:24:45Z")
Michelle Shocked–who once made one of my favorite albums ever, [Arkansas Traveler](https://www.amazon.com/Arkansas-Traveler-Michelle-Shocked/dp/B000001DUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532848921&sr=8-1&keywords=michelle+shocked+arkansas)–went on a “God hates fags” ramble at a concert at a nightclub in San Francisco a few years back. I would argue that this shows the perils of (a) going off your meds before a gig or (b) combining menopause with newfound religious fervor, but it ended her career. Not Marion Bradley Zimmer bad, but what a disappointment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-artists-who-are-horrible-people/773921.md?page=8)