# Women: as a girl, did you perceive boys as socially backwards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 24, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749 "2020-10-24T09:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/41 "2020-11-25T19:48:25Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > I’ve noticed that a lot of boys/young men who struggle with dating, and adult men who remember struggling, seem to think that all this stuff was easy for the girls. It wasn’t. For those of us who put ourselves out there, boys could and did reject us just as cruelly as we rejected them. For those cowed into waiting for the boys to ask us out, it was usually a very long, painful, and fruitless wait. For those of us who did get asked out, it could be thrilling (if we liked him), painfully awkward (if we didn’t), and occasionally terrifying (if he didn’t respond well to being rejected.) There was no book for us either, and most of us had social skills that were average or below. You couldn’t pay me to relive even one day of that horrorshow. Now that’s some real front-line reporting. Thank you. It’s easy as a (pre-)teen to assume “I must be the only goof in the room; those other folks, particularly of the other gender, have it sooo easy compared to me.” Just not true. But a very common thought nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/42 "2020-11-25T19:50:26Z")
Yeah, but **msmith537** was talking about making a move after a couple of dates, not trying to make a first date. I understand we women are conditioned not to go up to a guy and say, “Hey, would you like to go out with me?” But once that threshold has been crossed, if further moves are to be made, either party should be okay with making them. That’s how I see it anyway, and I’m a girl raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, for cryin’ out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/43 "2020-11-25T21:08:17Z")
Incidentally, I was close friends with a Jehovah’s Witness boy in high school, and he completely blindsided me in health class with a several page letter that said, in effect, “I’m in love with you. Will you convert to my religion and be my girlfriend? I can only marry another Jehovah’s Witness.” There were no signs of romantic interest, no flirtations, nothing of the sort. And of course I had to tell him, hey, I really like my religion and cherish our friendship. Sorry, buddy. I know it’s tough for guys to work up the courage, and naturally I found myself attracted to the most shy, socially awkward guys, and you could never tell with them whether it’s “I’m terrified of making a move” or “I’m just not into you.” I made the first move many times, and was rejected many times. Even when I had a boyfriend, I was always the one saying, “Hey, shouldn’t we be kissing right now?” It sucks to be rejected but it enabled me to move on rather than just be stuck crushing on someone who didn’t want me. **Sr. Weasel** is neither shy nor socially awkward, but he was inexperienced with girls. We were 19 years old. We had become so close at that point, everybody knew we were in love before we did. I just figured it out first. When I confessed my feelings, I remember a family friend saying, “Aaagh! No, girl! Never tell a man you love him! It will scare him off!” And I was like, “But I _do_ love him. Why would I not tell him the truth? It’s better than this agony\* of not knowing how he feels.” And it turned out to be the right move. \*I had it bad. Shaking hands, nausea, sleepless nights, couldn’t even focus on my schoolwork, bad. I just wanted the misery to end one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/44 "2020-11-25T21:14:33Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I have to ask, why didn’t any of the girls make the first move? Or was this pre-Helen Gurley Brown? We’re not talking about a huge sample size here, but often times they did. At least in the sense of telling their friends to tell my friends to tell me they wanted to go on a date. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/45 "2020-11-25T21:25:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Incidentally, I was close friends with a Jehovah’s Witness boy in high school, and he completely blindsided me in health class with a several page letter that said, in effect, “I’m in love with you. Will you convert to my religion and be my girlfriend? I can only marry another Jehovah’s Witness.” That’s sort of a big ask for a first date. I eventually figured out usually just casually asking a girl out after a brief conversation was usually good enough. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/46 "2020-11-25T23:20:33Z")
So I guess that most of us, regardless of gender, knew what we were doing. Some of us knew even less than others. Most of us grew out of it, a few of us (I include myself here, although I haven’t been “on the market” for a quarter century) never did. ---
**Author:** ![jimmyjoeraybubbabob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eada6e/32.png) [@jimmyjoeraybubbabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmyjoeraybubbabob)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/47 "2020-11-26T06:17:55Z")
This is a great thread, Thank you Capn\_carl. I’ve been in Awe of females for all my years. Thank all that’s good and pure for the ones who’ve sensed my crippling shyness and taken me under wing. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/48 "2020-11-26T17:57:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > There were no signs of romantic interest, no flirtations, nothing of the sort. And of course I had to tell him, hey, I really like my religion and cherish our friendship. Sorry, buddy. It’s not that I don’t fully agree with your decision to run away screaming from that particular man, but can some woman explain to me why you “cherish our friendship” is supposed to be a good reason for NOT going out with someone? Asking for “you’re such a good friend(s)” everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/49 "2020-11-26T19:43:43Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > It’s not that I don’t fully agree with your decision to run away screaming from that particular man, but can some woman explain to me why you “cherish our friendship” is supposed to be a good reason for NOT going out with someone? > > Asking for “you’re such a good friend(s)” everywhere. It’s a nice way of saying, “I have no romantic interest in you but I wish to continue the friendship.” Alternatively, some people really do value friendship over romance and decline to become involved because if things didn’t work out, they would probably lose the friendship. I personally never let that stop me. In fact I never was really interested in a guy unless we were friends first. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/50 "2020-11-26T21:05:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s a nice way of saying, “I have no romantic interest in you but I wish to continue the friendship.” Alternatively, some people really do value friendship over romance and decline to become involved because if things didn’t work out, they would probably lose the friendship. I personally never let that stop me. In fact I never was really interested in a guy unless we were friends first. Could not have explained it as well myself. This exactly. Plus I always wanted to be kind and allow face-saving for the other person, just as I hoped they would for me if the situation was reversed. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/51 "2020-11-26T21:29:40Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > In fact I never was really interested in a guy unless we were friends first. I feel compelled to mention one big exception. When I saw him get on the school bus in 7th grade I turned to my friend and said, “Who’s _that_?” "Uh… Kelly? Are you talking about _Kelly?_ " Kelly." _swoon_ Don’t think I said two words to him the entire time I was in school. He was friends with my friends, so there was no excuse, I could not physically speak in this boy’s presence. Crush persisted through high school. I did manage to get a friend to pass along my interest, but alas, he declined. Got to know him a bit via FB a couple years ago and can confirm he is a flaming JAQing asshole. My favorite part of this story is that a couple of years post-high school I ran into him with **Sr. Weasel** at my side and realized, as I introduced them, that they looked almost _exactly alike._ Like, you could see them each realize this. I about died. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/52 "2020-11-26T21:35:58Z")
Speaking as a male, my view is that not only are boys socially backward compared to girls, most of them remain that way even after they grow up. Cite: Dave Barry, **[_I’ll Mature When I’m Dead_](https://www.amazon.com/Ill-Mature-When-Dead-Adulthood/dp/039915650X)**. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/53 "2020-11-26T22:26:08Z")
> [@](#): > > My favorite part of this story is that a couple of years post-high school I ran into him with **Sr. Weasel** at my side and realized, as I introduced them, that they looked almost _exactly alike._ Like, you could see them each realize this. I about died. I love this story so much (although I do empathize with your embarrassment) that I read it to my sister. I had to tell her that you really like your husband, because she asked me why you called him a weasel. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/54 "2020-11-26T23:01:36Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s a nice way of saying, “I have no romantic interest in you but I wish to continue the friendship.” Alternatively, some people really do value friendship over romance and decline to become involved because if things didn’t work out, they would probably lose the friendship. But in socially backward boy culture, that gets translated into the damaging, “you’ can be either a friend or a boyfriend, but never both;” or the positively toxic “girls don’t date nice guys, so you have to be an asshole to get a date.” We probably have to start in pre-kindergarten to teach boys and girls how to play and socialize together without falling into traditional gender roles and expectations. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/55 "2020-11-27T00:54:40Z")
There was a girl who I had a crush on through much of high school. Ms. P is the same height and body type, and is otherwise a brunette, liberal, Jewish version of that crush. I think that they may be within a few weeks of being the same age. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/56 "2020-11-27T00:59:47Z")
So I guess we have a type! ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/57 "2020-11-27T01:01:51Z")
Except one had much better taste. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/58 "2020-11-27T02:06:22Z")
Pretty sure P-man meant Sr Weasel has much better taste. After all, he got to keep both-friend and love of his life. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/59 "2020-11-27T02:17:58Z")
Yep, referring to Sr. Weasel. The same could be said about Ms. P. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749/60 "2020-11-27T20:07:26Z")
You’re welcome; it has been a good thread. I’m learning from all the posts here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-as-a-girl-did-you-perceive-boys-as-socially-backwards/923749.md?page=4)