# Women: Attractiveness and dismissal of your professional achievements **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648 "2010-11-14T17:05:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/61 "2010-11-16T06:15:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Any of you guys try to make yourselves look less attractive, to try it out? It seems it’s actually pretty easy for an attractive person to make themselves look less attractive. And, if the attractiveness is really the problem, that should help. I don’t think attractiveness per se is a problem - as others have noted, it’s usually an asset. The problem is when others attribute your accomplishments solely to your good looks. There’s really not much you can do to change their minds anyway. I do think a certain sort of attractiveness can be a problem in certain professions. For example, I teach teenagers. I want to look attractive in class, because students like attractive teachers. But I also want them to take me seriously, which is hard when you’re 5 ft tall and have a youngish face (when I taught college, new admin would routinely mistake me for a student unless I wore a suit). So I dress myself and conduct myself accordingly. But I’ve never heard anyone attributing someone’s accomplishments solely to their good looks. I HAVE often heard things like, “Why is she trying so hard? She’s pretty, she could just get married and settle down. She doesn’t need to work.” When I went off to grad school my own relatives asked me what I needed an MA for, and that I should be worrying about my marriage prospects instead. But that’s different. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/62 "2010-11-16T16:17:51Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This is an irritating topic in general. Some females claim that they can’t get ahead because they aren’t good looking enough, others claim that they aren’t taken seriously because they are too good looking. You can’t have both ways. > … > > Let’s also be frank. Most of you that are claiming this fact have to have something else going on in the belfry. You simply can’t be that good looking to cause people’s minds to shut down in your presence and not listen to what you say especially after they know you. A well put together persona is always an asset, not a negative and people are not popping boners and moisting themselves when you walk into a room if you are over 30 even if you think you don’t look like it. It just doesn’t happen. There are a handful of occupations where being very attractive can be an asset like a salesperson, a movie star, a TV personality, or a model but none where being presentable is a negative. If you truly believe that, you need to investigate other explanations (or just wait until you are 60 when people should see you for you you really are inside). Ha ha ha. You’re an oddball, **Shag** , but I thought this entire post was hilarious. > [@InterestedObserver](#): > > To the extent that WHAT exists? Discrimination against the “good-looking” or the “not good looking”? They both exist, in my experience. Discrimination against pretty people. The handful of times I’ve heard this complaint in real life, they’ve been uttered by people completely unaware of the actual reasons they are not being taken seriously. shortcomings. I’m sure it might happen every once in a great while, but what prompted this thread was some woman ranting about how hard being a professional adult has been due to her great beauty. All I could think was :dubious: Oh please. > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > I can see your roots Bitch. :eek: > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > At one point, in the '80s, I had a boss who had read some Dress For Success book or something, who advised me that I would be taken more seriously if I dyed my hair brown. Aside from being a highly unprofessional thing for a boss to say, does anyone actually take brunettes more seriously than blondes? ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/63 "2010-11-16T16:33:09Z")
See **Sleep** ’s earlier post about dying her hair brunette. When I think long and hard about it, I haven’t had a close friend who is naturally blonde (they’re pretty rare, IIRC) so I couldn’t speak to it personally. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/64 "2010-11-16T17:18:38Z")
Yeah, but **Sleeps** said other women were nicer to her when her hair was blonde, so it makes me laugh to hear someone say you’d be taken more seriously with dark hair. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/65 "2010-11-16T19:09:50Z")
Whoops, I read her post entirely wrong. Mea culpa! ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/66 "2010-11-16T19:30:49Z")
I don’t have any professional accomplishments. I am attractive though, and I think it’s been a huge boon to me in every area of my life. I’m not sure how I feel about the ‘pretty/sexy ladies have it hard’ argument. All I know is that it’s the opposite for me, but then, I consider myself a nonthreatening sort of ‘attractive’. I’ve got a young-looking face and I’m skinny, flat-chested, don’t usually wear make-up, and dress fairly casually. I don’t like any sort of attention, and deliberately avoid attracting any. It’s obvious to me that life is different in some ways for my friends with big boobs, and those who put more effort into their appearance, and especially those who deliberately seek to get attention from other people. It’s also a personality issue. I seem to have a personality that demands respect because I get it from nearly everyone just by being me. Unsubtle sneak-brag I know, but this is what I’ve experienced. I have female friends who are just as intelligent, etc and not usually any better-looking than me, but they get condescended to, or bullied/harassed, or accused of using their sexuality to get things from people (which is sometimes a fair accusation, sometimes totally unfair) and it seems to have to do with being a young attractive woman. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/67 "2010-11-16T19:40:52Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Aside from being a highly unprofessional thing for a boss to say, does anyone actually take brunettes more seriously than blondes? Actually he was very professional. He wanted to set himself up as my mentor and tell me how the world worked, and there was no question that he was sincere about it. (And not trying to seduce me, either. I don’t think.) He was sincere as hell. Just wrong. It’s been my experience that if you’ve got the goods, people take you as seriously as they need to. If you don’t got the goods, well…I’m actually a lighthearted kind of person, but at the time I was in a position of authority. Granted that my authority consisted of going to the break room and dragging paste-up artists away from their ping-pong game to do some work so we’d make our deadline. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/68 "2010-11-16T19:51:31Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Whoops, I read her post entirely wrong. Mea culpa! I think you read it right. She was saying that when she was blonde, she wasn’t treated as well by women. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/69 "2010-11-16T19:55:17Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > We were both swapping stories about how much better we have been treated _by other women_ than when we have our natural hair. You ladies are right. My mind omitted the word “than.” Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/70 "2010-11-16T19:57:24Z")
:smack: so did mine, the second time around. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/71 "2010-11-16T19:58:21Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Do you regularly encounter people dismissing your professional achievements by claiming they are solely, or in large part, due to your being an attractive woman? No. I’m pretty average looking. Apparently I also project an aura of vicious competence. I do work in a field that for the most part rewards competence, with the main exception noted below. > [@rhubarbarin](#): > > It’s obvious to me that life is different in some ways for my friends with big boobs, and those who put more effort into their appearance. I have observed some of this. In my field, it seems that charm rather than stunning good looks will sometimes “boost” an employee into a position she or he may not deserve based on technical ability alone. I have seen this with females and with males. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/72 "2010-11-16T20:14:22Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > I don’t have any professional accomplishments. I am attractive though, and I think it’s been a huge boon to me in every area of my life. I suppose after all my blabbering, I should probably answer the OP. 😃 I more or less agree with this quote. I’d say for every middle aged woman who finds me threatening or unappealing for whatever reason, there are 4 or 5 other people who think I am just the cutest, prettiest, sweetest thing in the world and will buy my services. My clients regularly tell me I have a beautiful smile, compliment my clothes, tell me I have gorgeous eyes, etc. etc. etc. (and it’s usually something like, “You have such a beautiful smile, it’s really put me at ease!”). So, while I definitely do encounter a certain subset of folks immediately discrediting me based on appearance, I’d say that- over all- it helps far more than it hurts. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/73 "2010-11-16T20:33:07Z")
The level of jealousy and competition I have experienced from (especially female) co-workers has gone from overwhelmingly constant to almost nil since I gained about 50 extra pounds. When I was barbie doll beautiful (I always dressed very conservatively) it was difficult to even get people to listen to me. When I spoke in a meeting, there was a conspiracy of people jumping to find something wrong with my offering, and I didn’t dare brainstorm, or offer any ideas I hadn’t thoroughly thought through. Now, I can offer the most “out there” ideas and people will look for the nugget of truth, instead of being anxious to prove that I am stupid. And that was the jist of it: Beautiful people (and especially females) have to be stupid. It’s an absolute need with some people; and they can be quite vicious about it. There is no question that my first few promotions were perceived to be due to my looks, rather than the fact that I worked longer hours and achieved higher results than any of my detractors. There was always a core group of co-workers who knew me, and understood my abilities, and helped me stay sane. But when they defended me, ineveitably someone would suggest that they were “just trying to get into [my] pants.” Now people are more likely to assume intelligence and merit. There was a “golden period” in which I was big enough to not be instantly hated by the females, but not so big that the “fat haters” had me in their sights. Ahhh, that was lovely! It’s not just the other women though. Men who “want” you, and have either self-determined, or received a gentle hint that they can’t “have” you, are the most vicious of all. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/74 "2010-11-16T20:46:50Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > The level of jealousy and competition I have experienced from (especially female) co-workers has gone from overwhelmingly constant to almost nil since I gained about 50 extra pounds. When I was barbie doll beautiful (I always dressed very conservatively) it was difficult to even get people to listen to me. When I spoke in a meeting, there was a conspiracy of people jumping to find something wrong with my offering, and I didn’t dare brainstorm, or offer any ideas I hadn’t thoroughly thought through. That sounds thoroughly awful! If you don’t mind my asking, in what field do you work? I’ve always known that my little engineering world is something of a bubble, but hearing about experiences like yours really drives it home. (I won’t go so far as to call my office idyllic, though. :D) ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/75 "2010-11-16T20:48:23Z")
**DiosaBellissima** and\*\* rhubarbarin\*\* couldn’t be more correct. In that vein, I have _no idea_ why some women swear off makeup. Nobody is saying throw on a vat of warpaint, but everyone has dark circles, splotchiness, eyelashes that could use a boost and some cheeks that could use color. No makeup and I’m treated average, but with makeup - well, hey! Suddenly everyone wants to be my friend and is super helpful. Even my butcher is nicer and more willing to “look in the back” for some more on-sale chicken if I’m all kindsa cute. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/76 "2010-11-16T22:32:21Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > That sounds thoroughly awful! > > If you don’t mind my asking, in what field do you work? I’ve always known that my little engineering world is something of a bubble, but hearing about experiences like yours really drives it home. (I won’t go so far as to call my office idyllic, though. :D) US Federal and Defense contracting. It’s a very competitive field, as contracts are constantly ending and re-competing, and there is never quite enough coverage to go around. We also have a lot of ex-military, so a much higher than average incidence of pious fat-hating. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/77 "2010-11-17T04:10:16Z")
It’s been said that I’ve \*gotten \*some jobs based on my looks, and that’s probably true. I have no problem believing that, all other things being equal(ish), I’ve edged out some competition by being pretty and personable. People tend to hire the person they’d prefer to work with all day every day, and I’m pretty sure that “personable” was as important to that equation as “pretty”. I don’t believe that anyone significantly more qualified was passed over for me. It’s never been said (to my knowledge) that I’ve kept a job or been treated preferentially at one because of my looks, even though I’m in a profession where that gets thrown around a bit. In my experience, people get over what you look like pretty quickly, when you see them every day. You’d better be backing it up with something, even if it’s just an excess of charm. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/78 "2010-11-17T05:18:11Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > **DiosaBellissima** and\*\* rhubarbarin\*\* couldn’t be more correct. In that vein, I have _no idea_ why some women swear off makeup. Nobody is saying throw on a vat of warpaint, but everyone has dark circles, splotchiness, eyelashes that could use a boost and some cheeks that could use color. No makeup and I’m treated average, but with makeup - well, hey! Suddenly everyone wants to be my friend and is super helpful. Even my butcher is nicer and more willing to “look in the back” for some more on-sale chicken if I’m all kindsa cute. I can only tell you why I swear off makeup - I’m lazy, and I have no interest in improving my looks. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/79 "2010-11-17T07:23:23Z")
I’m not exceptionally beautiful, but I’m cute, slim, have blond hair and blue eyes, and a ready smile. I couldn’t say if it’s better or worse, but I do think I get treated differently than if I looked some other way. For one, blonde (but not too blonde) hair and blue eyes is the universal signal for “I’m your new best friend.” I think people feel at ease around me when really, maybe, they probably shouldn’t. Stranger feel free to approach me. Security never follows me around stores. Everyone just assumes I’m a good person. It’s odd to be basically visually incapable of being threatening or unwelcoming. Sometimes I wish I could be a police man or something just so everyone didn’t automatically expect me to be nice. Career wise, I’ve come to realize that i’m going to be able to ride this “promising young thing” way longer than it’s really applicable. I’m sure part of this is my mannerisms, but I think a lot of it is just that i look the role. I look like someone you want to take under your wing. It’s just kind of bizarre that I keep staying in the professional pigeonhole that I was in when I was a high school intern. It works, so I’m not complaining. But it is kind of strange. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648/80 "2010-11-17T11:19:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > When I was a little debate champ in high school, I cried many tears over some of the ballots and comments I received. I couldn’t understand why people were focusing on how I looked, when I worked so hard to be intelligent and capable. Sometime around the age of 17, it hit me: I could cure cancer, find peace for the Middle East, and get everybody in the US a free flat screen-- but there’d still be a good chunk of the population that would look at that and think, “Aw, what a sweet, pretty girl- isn’t it lucky that she figured all that stuff out? Good for her! I wonder who helped her?” Oddly, realizing that was really liberating. I guess it was understanding that there are just some things that people think that I can’t control. As soon as I realized that, I realized it would be smart to use their biases to my own advantage. I haven’t read everyone else’s responses, but I did want to interject … I’m “below average” - or considered so because of my weight. I’m a pretty big girl, but not ugly by any means, but generally when people see that you’re fat, you’re written off. At work, I’m one of the stars in my unit. This is because I work harder than most, and more overtime than all. I’ll trade you any day, any time. I could cure cancer, find peace for the Middle East, etc., and a good chunk of the population would still look at me and go “ew, what a lardass.” In short - people suck. Regardless of what you do, there will always be faultfinders. If you’re going to have your accomplishments dismissed - having them dismissed because of your beauty isn’t such a bad reason. IMHO. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-attractiveness-and-dismissal-of-your-professional-achievements/560648.md?page=5)