# Women being upset by ma'am (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536 "2010-12-09T15:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/41 "2010-12-09T20:08:56Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > “She Who Must Be Obeyed”, “Creature of the Night”, “Mistress of All Evil”, or “Goddess” are all good. > > Or you can call me Lynn or Ms Bodoni. Queen of the Board ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/42 "2010-12-09T20:18:58Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > “She Who Must Be Obeyed”, “Creature of the Night”, “Mistress of All Evil”, or “Goddess” are all good. > > Or you can call me Lynn or Ms Bodoni. And if it’s someone who doesn’t know your name, but wants to be polite? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/43 "2010-12-09T20:20:22Z")
I’m amused by the OP because my voice is kinda high, so even though I’m of the male persuasion, so I get called “ma’am” so regularly by strangers over the phone that I just ignore it unless there’s a reason my gender might be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/44 "2010-12-09T20:20:53Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > And if it’s someone who doesn’t know your name, but wants to be polite? Excuse me? ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/45 "2010-12-09T20:20:55Z")
what amuses the heck out of me isn’t the ‘ma’am.’ it’s the ‘mrs.’ i’ve never been married! 😃 i used both ‘ma’am’ and ‘sir’ when i was in my 20s and i still use it now in my 50s because i was brought up that way to be polite and respectful of not only elders but others. i worked a year at macy’s, dealt with all kinds of people and not once did i have anyone take me to task over it here in the midwest. personally, i don’t care if i’m addressed as ‘ma’am.’ actually, being called ‘miss’ would probably produce this reaction: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/46 "2010-12-09T20:23:40Z")
> [@BigBertha](#): > > Excuse me? Yes, Ma’am, Miss Excuse Me, Ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/47 "2010-12-09T20:26:14Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > Actually, I think “Yes, sir” would have been funnier. To add in the geeky, didn’t Star Trek use sir for all superior officers, regardless of gender? I know that in at least one of the movies, they did. And even though I’m not Southern, I don’t mind being called ma’am, especially by random people who don’t know my name. Double-especially if they’re service people trying to get my attention. It beats “hey, you.” ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/48 "2010-12-09T20:28:51Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Actually, in areas were it’s not commonly used, women will have had the experience of being called ma’am in a way that clearly implied that the speaker would really rather be saying bitch, but was either too polite or otherwise not in a position to do so. Such as it creaping into the replies of the clerk at the returns counter the third time she explains why the return isn’t possible, when it wasn’t there the first two times she explained. Aha! _That’s_ why being "ma’am"ed by my students always rubs me the wrong way, even though it’s so ubiquitous around here that I wouldn’t dream of correcting it. To my upper-South, urban, white-collar ears (and I think **Lynn** is absolutely right that there is a class divide here as well as a geographic one), it sounds faintly snarky, even though I know perfectly well that most of the time it isn’t meant to be. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/49 "2010-12-09T20:37:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oh, I’m very good with my pleases and thankyous, and I give the respect I expect to receive. I just don’t do deference. So then you don’t use “[Mr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_%28Mr.%29)” either? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/50 "2010-12-09T20:39:20Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > This is one of those small, very minor, things that makes customer service jobs a PITA. I mean…it feels really weird to call a woman clearly in her 40’s or 50’s miss, but she might get upset if I call her ma’am…I’ve tried to use “madam,” even though it’s essentially the same word, though it sounds “fancier,” and it’s slightly better, but it still upsets some women. I mean, I think we call all agree those women need to get the fuck over themselves, ma’am doesn’t automatically imply age. Obviously if a woman asks me not to call her that I won’t, but I’d like it if they all stopped caring in the first place. Yup, this is me. If I’m familiar with the woman in question and she requests that I not call her ma’am, fine. If I know her first or last name, chances are I won’t even use the term anyway. But in a customer service situation, all grown women are “ma’am.” Why? Because I don’t know them, and calling them “miss” would just be weird, because they’re not ten years old. Thankfully, I’ve never had anyone have a problem with me calling them “ma’am,” but I figure it’s only a matter of time. If it does happen, I’ll simply smile politely and ask what they’d rather be called instead. No biggie. I might replace it with a ruder title if they were snappish about it, but obviously I will keep this to myself. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/51 "2010-12-09T21:15:19Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Also, if she’s old enough, she’s heard that special condescending use of ma’am that announces that women are incompetent, but a polite man must humor the sweet little dears. I have definitely seen plenty of this done, and the use of mam as a means of disrespect when other titles such as Your Honor, Dr. or Officer, etc. should be used. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/52 "2010-12-09T21:19:41Z")
I tend to use “madame”. As in: _drops off paperwork on desk_ “Here you go, madame!” _walk away to find more busywork_ A job I held a while back, an older lady (old enough to be my mom) flipped out. Hated it, and said I was calling her a prostitute. I switched to Ma’am (my other default) and she said it was just as bad. I gave up, and just called her “lady”. …at least, to her face. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/53 "2010-12-09T21:20:57Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > “She Who Must Be Obeyed”, “Creature of the Night”, “Mistress of All Evil”, or “Goddess” are all good. > > Or you can call me Lynn or Ms Bodoni. But only if we’re nasty. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/54 "2010-12-09T21:22:21Z")
I like “ma’am” and use it a great deal. It seems much more respectful than “Miss” or “hey you”. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/55 "2010-12-09T21:28:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oh, I’m very good with my pleases and thankyous, and I give the respect I expect to receive. I just don’t do deference. Not even after a “wham-bam”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/56 "2010-12-09T21:48:54Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Aha! _That’s_ why being "ma’am"ed by my students always rubs me the wrong way, even though it’s so ubiquitous around here that I wouldn’t dream of correcting it. To my upper-South, urban, white-collar ears (and I think **Lynn** is absolutely right that there is a class divide here as well as a geographic one), it sounds faintly snarky, even though I know perfectly well that most of the time it isn’t meant to be. Thanks for pointing out that we’re lower class & uneducated. How gracious from a member of The Quality! Bless your heart. I don’t mind “Ma’am.” Hey, I was born in New England & raised by a Midwestern Grandmother & her Texas Native Daughter. But I was taught to say Please, Thank You, Sir & Ma’am. (And I make a point of calling any older African American Sir or Ma’am–because they never heard those words in The Old days.) I also learned never to use the N-word. And always vote the Straight Democratic Ticket. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/57 "2010-12-09T21:54:26Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > To add in the geeky, didn’t Star Trek use sir for all superior officers, regardless of gender? I know that in at least one of the movies, they did… Yep, in the Trekverse “Sir” was just a generic title used for men, women, & androgynous beings. Not that all women were happy with it. Janeway despised being called “Sir”, but she wasn’t fond of “Ma’am” either. She corrected Ensign Kim when they first met and told him to just call her “Captain”. Battlestar Galactica followed the same rules (which was a little odd when Roslin got called _Madam_ President and Sir in the same conversation). And IIRC Kirk addressed Lt. Saavik as _Mister_ Saavik too. > [@Scubaqueen](#): > > what amuses the heck out of me isn’t the ‘ma’am.’ it’s the ‘mrs.’ i’ve never been married! :D… I had a maiden aunt who’d roll her eyes if she got a letter addressed with “Ms”, but she’d blow a gasket if anyone used “Mrs”. Letters got a curt response, in person usurs were immediately corrected. My grandmother (her Sil) would also get offended if she got mail addressed using her firstname instead of my grandfather’s name because she “wasn’t even a widow yet let alone divorced”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/58 "2010-12-09T22:02:36Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So then you don’t use “[Mr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_%28Mr.%29)” either? 😉 Not really, no - I can’t remember the last time I called someone “Mr.” non-ironically. Dude, I’m Israeli. We make New Yorkers look reserved and standoffish. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/59 "2010-12-09T22:08:45Z")
What’s wrong with Ms (“mizz”)? No need to guess about the marital status of the person you’re speaking to, does not have any age connotations and is unlikely (IME) to offend someone. If all men are Mr, all women can be Ms. I tend to perceive “ma’am” as being sarcastic or disrespectful, as if the person is agreeing to do what I say regardless of how they feel about it. Like replying to a drill sargent regardless of how reasonable or rational their request is. I wouldn’t use it, and while I might not say anything to someone who used it to address me, I’d consider them to be slightly rude in using it. Though really, I only ever hear it used in a joking/teasing/sarcastic manner anyways, so it just sounds silly most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/60 "2010-12-09T22:12:49Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > What’s wrong with Ms (“mizz”)? “Thank you, Ms”, “Pardon me, Ms.”? I guess that would work. Remind me who you are if we meet. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=4)