# Women being upset by ma'am (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536 "2010-12-09T15:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/61 "2010-12-09T23:09:41Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Thanks for pointing out that we’re lower class & uneducated. How gracious from a member of The Quality! Bless your heart. I am sorry. It’s just that I found **Lynn’s** post really interesting and realized that what she said about the urban / rural and white collar / blue collar divide explains a lot of the differences in the way people use and perceive “ma’am,” even within a fairly narrow geographic area, and I started thinking, “OK, how does my own upbringing map onto this?” I truly did not realize that what I said came across as snooty or offensive, and I apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/62 "2010-12-09T23:15:42Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I was actually going to suggest that calling a woman under 50 “ma’am” north of the M-D line is tantamount to calling her a bitch. An _old_ bitch. 😃 > [@Vihaga](#): > > I grew up in Pennsylvania (albeit the southern half of the state- I live outside Philadelphia now) and I’ve never had a problem with it or had someone seem offended that I’d said it. Maybe it’s something that becomes more rude the farther north you go? Keep going north. It rubs a lot of younger women (20s-30s) here the wrong way. I dislike it myself; I’d far rather be called Miss or have no honorific used at all. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/63 "2010-12-09T23:30:08Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Keep going north. It rubs a lot of younger women (20s-30s) here the wrong way. I dislike it myself; I’d far rather be called Miss or have no honorific used at all. I’m 31. I also work in Philadelphia in an academic environment, and, while I don’t see people around me use it frequently, they do use it, and I’ve never seen anyone take visible offense to it. I guess my point is that I’m in an urban, well-educated environment north of the mason-dixon, and it’s a non-issue among the people I know and work with. How far north do I need to go? ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/64 "2010-12-09T23:45:43Z")
I’m in Canada and have no issues being called either “ma’am” or “madame” if I’m in a francophone area. However, I do remember feeling a slight psychic jolt the first time a teenager/twenty-something referred to me as “ma’am”. I wasn’t the slightest bit offended by his good manners, but I did ponder to myself in bewilderment: “…I’m an adult? When did that happen?” The sure fire way to counter the psychological effects of “ma’am” is to go to some alcohol-serving venue where you know they’ll card you. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/65 "2010-12-09T23:50:53Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So then you don’t use “[Mr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_%28Mr.%29)” either? 😉 Only when addressing my dog. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/66 "2010-12-10T00:50:08Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Actually, in areas were it’s not commonly used, women will have had the experience of being called ma’am in a way that clearly implied that the speaker would really rather be saying bitch, but was either too polite or otherwise not in a position to do so. ‘Ma’am. Ma’am! Please calm down, ma’am. You’re causing a scene!’ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/67 "2010-12-10T01:07:23Z")
My big thing is not that you don’t like being called ma’am, but that you make a big deal out of it in a situation where you will likely never see that person again, and, even if you do, neither will remember the other person. And, yes, saying anything at all is making a big deal out of it. I’m for all practical purposes never going to speak to you again–what the heck do you think I can do about your preference? Why make the interaction even more unpleasant by suggesting I committed a social faux pas? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/68 "2010-12-10T01:14:42Z")
Very Southern, and I use “ma’am” and “sir” habitually. It always works, too. Drive up to the Taco Bell and get a short, mean-sounding order-taker? Just give your order, and append “Thank you, ma’am”. By the time you get to the window, they’re usually friendly. People enjoy being shown respect. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/69 "2010-12-10T01:16:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not really, no - I can’t remember the last time I called someone “Mr.” non-ironically. > > Dude, I’m Israeli. We make New Yorkers look reserved and standoffish. New Yorkers are reserved and standoffish, aren’t they? Except when they’re peeing on the subway, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/70 "2010-12-10T01:53:25Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > What’s wrong with Ms (“mizz”)? With someone who has not been introduced? To my mind and ear, “Mr.” and “Mrs.” only work properly when one knows the addressee’s name. “Ms.” is only ever acceptable with women who have specifically requested it (then, of course, nothing else may be used)–but in such cases you would always know the name. I’m still not clear how I should address **Lynn Bodoni** if, say, she walks up to my counter, or I see her lose something on the street. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/71 "2010-12-10T02:03:54Z")
Grew up in the south with southern manners. Every woman is ma’am, every man is sir. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/72 "2010-12-10T02:11:18Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Actually, in areas were it’s not commonly used, women will have had the experience of being called ma’am in a way that clearly implied that the speaker would really rather be saying bitch, but was either too polite or otherwise not in a position to do so. Such as it creaping into the replies of the clerk at the returns counter the third time she explains why the return isn’t possible, when it wasn’t there the first two times she explained. > > Also, if she’s old enough, she’s heard that special condescending use of ma’am that announces that women are incompetent, but a polite man must humor the sweet little dears. Yep, that’s what it means when I say it to a customer at work. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/73 "2010-12-10T02:14:08Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > …“Ms.” is only ever acceptable with women who have specifically requested it (then, of course, nothing else may be used)–but in such cases you would always know the name… I think it’s the otherway round; “Mrs” and “Miss” are only ever acceptable with a woman who’s specifically requested it. “Ms” is the default for adult women, unless she has a doctorate. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/74 "2010-12-10T04:56:21Z")
I think the Ms thing might be generational as much as anything. I’m 34 and it’s what I prefer. “Miss” makes me feel about eight years old (though my 90-year-old grandma insists on addressing mail to me that way, I’m not going to say anything to _her_) and I’m not married so Mrs. is out. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/75 "2010-12-10T05:12:34Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Being insulted by being called “ma’am” is a regional thing. I grew up in Ohio, and if you call any woman under 50 “ma’am,” you’d get the reaction you got. It’s the same thing as implying you rank that woman right up there with your grandmother. It makes people feel old. > > Now I live in the Deep South, and here, it’s a sign of respect. It’s just basic polite manners. You call an 18-year-old girl “ma’am” or your grandmother, or your same-age BFF or any woman. All men are sir, all women are ma’am and that’s just the way it is down here. I will add that, if an adult woman is unmarried (or possibly under 30; the rules appear fuzzy on this one and nobody gave me a copy of The Yankee’s Guide to Southern Culture Handbook when I moved down here), it is acceptable to call her by “Miss Firstname.” Young children will do this and people teach their kids to call me “Miss Dogzilla.” Or Ma’am. I’m in Rome, so I do as the Romans do… Yeah, I see both sides of this coin. I currently live in the Deep South myself, but was raised by my grandmother who happened to be from Ohio. Ma’am to me is an insult, but I would never give the reaction the OP got. The “Miss Firstname,” however, really bothers me. It’s not a sign of respect for me: I was always instructed to call my elders by “Mr or Miss Lastname” and that’s how I’ve taught my children. My kids know that their friends should call me “Mrs. Lastname” and never by my first name. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/76 "2010-12-10T05:14:31Z")
I don’t make an issue if someone calls me ma’am, but I’m always pleased when someone calls me “miss”. I’m 52. When they started calling me ma’am, it did feel like I was officially old and sexless. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/77 "2010-12-10T05:20:13Z")
Raised in Ohio here as well. Never thought to be insulted by ma’am and I’ve heard it a time or two. ---
**Author:** ![KinkiNipponTourist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e9bcb4/32.png) [@KinkiNipponTourist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinkiNipponTourist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/78 "2010-12-10T05:39:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > …I’m 52. When they started calling me ma’am, it did feel like I was officially old and sexless. I live in Japan, and hotel staff without fail address me as “ma’am” and I hate it for this reason. Really, there’s no other word to use, and they’d probably use it even if I were in my 20’s instead of my 40’s, but I get all butthurt anyway. Poor old me!😃 > [@BigT](#): > > My big thing is not that you don’t like being called ma’am, but that you make a big deal out of it in a situation where you will likely never see that person again, and, even if you do, neither will remember the other person.? This is what I scream to myself in my head every single time it happens, because your point is 100% correct. > [@BigT](#): > > And, yes, saying anything at all is making a big deal out of it. I’m for all practical purposes never going to speak to you again–what the heck do you think I can do about your preference? Why make the interaction even more unpleasant by suggesting I committed a social faux pas? Yup, this too. I have juuust enough of a grip to remember that this is my problem, not theirs, and to hike up my big girl pants and shut up. I usually deliberately switch to speaking Japanese, mainly to save the poor nice hotel people from my obnoxious, over-sensitive self. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/79 "2010-12-10T06:26:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not really, no - I can’t remember the last time I called someone “Mr.” non-ironically. > > Dude, I’m Israeli. We make New Yorkers look reserved and standoffish. I lived in Israel for eleven months and never even learned the Hebrew word for “Mr”. I looked it up in the dictionary once, and the word given was “mar”, which sounds suspiciously like a transliteration of the English abbreviation (Hebrew abbreviations are turned into words), so I’m not sure if that’s for real or not. Anyway, I am neither a Southerner nor a Northerner, I’m a Westerner. I can’t remember anyone ever calling me “ma’am”, and it’s not a word I was ever taught to address women with. It does have a sound of “old lady” to it, and I would be kind of peeved if someone used it, I guess. (I’m 32 and don’t _feel_ like an old lady quite yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/80 "2010-12-10T06:39:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m still not clear how I should address Lynn Bodoni if, say, she walks up to my counter, or I see her lose something on the street. If you don’t know me and I don’t know you, and we are likely to remain strangers to each other, then I will bite my tongue when you call me ma’am. Usually. But that’s not the case of the OP. The OP had been trained by the woman who objected to this form of address, and I rather wonder if the OP had been informed of her preferences on a previous occasion, since she “snapped” at him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=5)