# Women being upset by ma'am (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536 "2010-12-09T15:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/81 "2010-12-10T06:41:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not really, no - I can’t remember the last time I called someone “Mr.” non-ironically. > > Dude, I’m Israeli. We make New Yorkers look reserved and standoffish. As a New Zealander I haven’t called someone “Mr”, “Mrs”, or “Ms” since I was in high school and I’ve never used Sir or Ma’am except for when I had brief flirtations with the military. You can very easily get by in the world without calling anyone anything. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/82 "2010-12-10T07:14:03Z")
Oh, hell…I’m a woman of a certain age, working in a semi-administrative position among blue collar workers in the mid-south…I’d be perpetually pissed if I let being called m’am bother me. Although I grew up in the midwest, my mother is a native Tennessean, so we grew up calling grown ups m’am and sir. Living in the mid-south for many years has just solidified this. My boss (13 years my junior) tends to call me m’am when answering a yes/no question as well as calling me Miss Firstname. So do my guys, some of whom are older than I. In turn, I tend to use sir in the same manner, although the Mr. Firstname thing doesn’t usually kick in for men until they reach old-enough-to-be-my-dad age. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/83 "2010-12-10T07:24:49Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Grew up in the south with southern manners. Every woman is ma’am, every man is sir. See, while I’m a Damn Yankee, I really kinda like doing things this way. Heinlein once referred to humanity as a great machine with a lot of moving parts, and politeness as the lubrication to keep things moving along smoothly without grinding the gears. I’m much more likely to get a smile and a good reaction if I use “sir” and “ma’am” while talking to people, simply because they know that I’m taking the effort to be polite and treat them with respect. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/84 "2010-12-10T07:29:16Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > …“Ms.” is only ever acceptable with women who have specifically requested it (then, of course, nothing else may be used)–but in such cases you would always know the name… > > I think it’s the otherway round; “Mrs” and “Miss” are only ever acceptable with a woman who’s specifically requested it. “Ms” is the default for adult women, unless she has a doctorate. I very much disagree. I find the others more euphonious, and, more important, in my experience a great many women are more comfortable with the older forms. (To keep the regional data points coming, I live in the [Upland South](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upland_South).) You provided evidence yourself: > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I had a maiden aunt who’d roll her eyes if she got a letter addressed with “Ms”, but she’d blow a gasket if anyone used “Mrs”. Letters got a curt response, in person usurs were immediately corrected. In my speech, the distinctions between all the various forms are I think quite clear, and very few women have ever objected. More have visibly _lit up_ with pleasure at the old-fashioned formalisms. I might note that when I have a name but not the knowledge of either marital status or personal preference, my default initial address is “Miss,” with a rising tone and slight pause before the name, to ask for confirmation. _Overwhelmingly_, if there’s a response at this point, it’s either “yes,” with a smile, or “Mrs.” A very few offer “Ms.” If I was working the other way round, starting with “Ms.” and thinking of that as normal, I imagine women who do or would prefer otherwise would find it harder to ask for their preferred form. You may think that “Ms.” enjoys wider support than it does because you’re not providing an easy way for a woman to have another preference. That’s all _with_ a name known, of course. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > I’m still not clear how I should address **Lynn Bodoni** if, say, she walks up to my counter, or I see her lose something on the street. > > If you don’t know me and I don’t know you, and we are likely to remain strangers to each other, then I will bite my tongue when you call me ma’am. Usually. > > But that’s not the case of the OP… Indeed, to me the problem with the OP is not that he(?) called her an old lady, but that he called her a _stranger_. I would have long since established whether to call her “Miss,” “Mrs.,” or “Ms.,” or by her first name, as she preferred. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > You can very easily get by in the world without calling anyone anything. Sure, you _can_. But why would you want to, when with just a little extra consideration you can make people feel better about themselves and you? ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/85 "2010-12-10T07:33:51Z")
I think ma’am is just polite, the way ‘sir’ is. Of course, I’ve had guys bite my head off for calling them sir, claiming they work for a living, but I don’t think anyone’s been seriously torqued, just joking around. There’s just not another way to be respectful to a lady. ‘Thanks, lady!’ makes you sound like either Fezzik or some street urchin who just got a ha’penny. As for calling someone by their name, I quote often say ‘Yes’m’ or ‘yessir’ or ‘thank ya ma’am’ or ‘thank ya sir’ as a much-less-than serious response to…whatever. I can’t imagine anyone using ma’am as an insult, and find it hard to believe anyone’d be seriously offended. I mean…why? If someone’s not trying to be mean, why would you take it that way? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/86 "2010-12-10T09:40:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > As a New Zealander I haven’t called someone “Mr”, “Mrs”, or “Ms” since I was in high school and I’ve never used Sir or Ma’am except for when I had brief flirtations with the military. You can very easily get by in the world without calling anyone anything. High school? Military? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/87 "2010-12-10T10:12:29Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Sure, you _can_. But why would you want to, when with just a little extra consideration you can make people feel better about themselves and you? Because where I’m from it _doesn’t_ make people feel better about themselves or you. A cultural difference the same as with Alessan. > [@Alessan](#): > > High school? Military? High school = School for kids from about 12 to 17 years of age, prior to university. Military = The armed forces. (You really don’t know that one?) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/88 "2010-12-10T11:59:44Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > As a New Zealander I haven’t called someone “Mr”, “Mrs”, or “Ms” since I was in high school and I’ve never used Sir or Ma’am except for when I had brief flirtations with the military. You can very easily get by in the world without calling anyone anything. > > […] > > Because where I’m from it _doesn’t_ make people feel better about themselves or you. Once again, our experiences tally up very closely (I don’t recall _ever_ calling someone “Sir” or “Ma’am” except sarcastically, in jest, or during my time in cadets in another lifetime). In fact, I don’t like being called “Sir” since I’m not a military officer or a Knight Of The Realm. I use Mr. and Mrs. a lot in a professional context with people I don’t know, though, and I must say I’m very fond of the situation in Asia where (due to the fact they have family names first and given names second in many cultures) I spent a lot of time being addressed as “Mr. Martini” which struck me as an excellent balance between courtesy and friendliness. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/89 "2010-12-10T12:08:49Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > High school = School for kids from about 12 to 17 years of age, prior to university. > Military = The armed forces. (You really don’t know that one?) No, I was just expressing surprise that you’d address people as “Mr.” and “Sir” in high school or the military. I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/90 "2010-12-10T13:21:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, I was just expressing surprise that you’d address people as “Mr.” and “Sir” in high school or the military. I didn’t. You didn’t call your teachers “Mr. (or Miss/Mrs.) [Lastname]” or superior officers in the military “Sir”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/91 "2010-12-10T13:40:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, I was just expressing surprise that you’d address people as “Mr.” and “Sir” in high school or the military. I didn’t. Oh ok. Yeah it’s customary here to call teachers Mr. or Mrs. Lastname though I had one or two who preferred to be called by their first name. I’ve had very little to do with the military other than basic training for the naval reserves in New Zealand, officers were “sir” but we had nothing to do with them outside of a formal setting so don’t take that as definitive. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/92 "2010-12-10T14:48:04Z")
Some of you would really have a hard time with being “honeyed.” I get called honey all the time by young girls, old women, unthreatening men, etc. It’s about as ubiquitous as “ma’am.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/93 "2010-12-10T15:44:32Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You didn’t call your teachers “Mr. (or Miss/Mrs.) [Lastname]” or superior officers in the military “Sir”? 😕 Nope. (Well, officers and sergeants were “Sir” during basic training, but not after). ---
**Author:** ![DivineComedienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c67d28/32.png) [@DivineComedienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DivineComedienne)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/94 "2010-12-10T15:49:25Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Some of you would really have a hard time with being “honeyed.” I get called honey all the time by young girls, old women, unthreatening men, etc. It’s about as ubiquitous as “ma’am.” I HATE HATE HATE being called “honey” by servicepeople. I worked through college as a waitress and also worked in retail for 15 years. I would never DREAM of disrespecting a customer by calling them “honey” or “sweetheart”; if I didn’t know their name, it was always “Sir”, “Ma’am”, or “Miss”. The customer is doing me a favor by patronizing my store, and I respected that. For someone in a service position to call a customer “honey” is, to me, a huge insult and hugely disrespectful. I would MUCH rather be called “ma’am” than “honey” by a waitress anytime. I realize they probably think they’re being friendly and welcoming, but it’s still appallingly rude. To me, it means you don’t care enough about me to ask my name, and you don’t respect me as a customer enough to call me “ma’am”. “Honey” is an endearment meant for family or SOs, not strangers. PS: I would never call a serviceperson “honey” either, that’s just as disrespectful to them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/95 "2010-12-10T15:54:14Z")
In an authentic Southern Barbecue joint, it is required that the waitress be an older white lady, smoking a cigarette and holding a green tablet of tickets, and that she ask you, “What do want, Honey?” “I’ll have the beef plate, Ma’am.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/96 "2010-12-10T16:14:14Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > I would never DREAM of disrespecting a customer by calling them “honey” or “sweetheart”… Different strokes, I guess. As a customer, I don’t find it disrespectful; I find it endearing. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/97 "2010-12-10T16:14:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m amused by the OP because my voice is kinda high, so even though I’m of the male persuasion, so I get called “ma’am” so regularly by strangers over the phone that I just ignore it unless there’s a reason my gender might be relevant. You and me both. We have a real reason to be offended by being called Ma’am. But it can be fun if they get flustered when they (finally) realize I’m a guy. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/98 "2010-12-10T16:21:29Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So then you don’t use “[Mr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_%28Mr.%29)” either? 😉 Would it be logical to address you as “Mister Spoke?” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/99 "2010-12-10T18:03:01Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Would it be logical to address you as “Mister Spoke?” Depends on the circumstance. Are you a friend? Are you significantly younger than me? Am I a business acquaintance? A potential customer or client? Your parole officer? There are plenty of circumstances where it would be logical to use a respectful address. And plenty of others where no such formality is required or appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/100 "2010-12-10T18:10:09Z")
New Yorker here. I put up with being called Ma’am; around here it’s clearly an indicator of “old”. But I don’t make an issue of it, and yes, I use it myself, as well as Sir. I only use it in instances when the only other term is “Hey, you!” And I do try to use “Miss” or “Mz” when I can. “Honey”, though, drives me right around the bend. I don’t like nicknames and pet names to start with and I am certainly not the waitress’ honey. It also depends on how they are using it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=6)