# Women being upset by ma'am (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536 "2010-12-09T15:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/101 "2010-12-10T18:20:11Z")
> [@Ann\_Onimous](#): > > Yeah, I see both sides of this coin. I currently live in the Deep South myself, but was raised by my grandmother who happened to be from Ohio. Ma’am to me is an insult, but I would never give the reaction the OP got. The “Miss Firstname,” however, really bothers me. It’s not a sign of respect for me: I was always instructed to call my elders by “Mr or Miss Lastname” and that’s how I’ve taught my children. My kids know that their friends should call me “Mrs. Lastname” and never by my first name. Heh. My friends always either called my mom by her first name or **Mrs. pbbth’s mom**. She always got a kick out of that one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/102 "2010-12-10T20:00:23Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Depends on the circumstance. Are you a friend? Are you significantly younger than me? Am I a business acquaintance? A potential customer or client? Your parole officer? > > There are plenty of circumstances where it would be logical to use a respectful address. And plenty of others where no such formality is required or appropriate. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/103 "2010-12-10T20:11:08Z")
Living where I do, I get the _Honey_ or _Sweetie_ thing too. I don’t mind it too badly coming from, say a sixty-something waitress at my favorite mom and pop meat and three, but I, too, hate it coming from an 18 year old woman server at Shoney’s. Fortunately, a lot of restaurants (like the ones I worked in in my youth) have instructed the use of m’am and sir during orientation now. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/104 "2010-12-10T20:47:53Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Actually, in areas were it’s not commonly used, women will have had the experience of being called ma’am in a way that clearly implied that the speaker would really rather be saying bitch, but was either too polite or otherwise not in a position to do so. Such as it creaping into the replies of the clerk at the returns counter the third time she explains why the return isn’t possible, when it wasn’t there the first two times she explained. > > Also, if she’s old enough, she’s heard that special condescending use of ma’am that announces that women are incompetent, but a polite man must humor the sweet little dears. You’ve pretty much nailed my experience with being called “Ma’am.” It isn’t ma’am until they’re trying to “handle” me. We’ve gone around this on the boards before, with the result being that people raised with “sir” and “ma’am” simply don’t understand just how much condescension you can fit into one “ma’am” when it isn’t customarily used (and it is not used much in western Canada, where I have spent all my life). I prefer “Hey, Lady!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/105 "2010-12-10T20:53:43Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’ve pretty much nailed my experience with being called “Ma’am.” It isn’t ma’am until they’re trying to “handle” me. We’ve gone around this on the boards before, with the result being that people raised with “sir” and “ma’am” simply don’t understand just how much condescension you can fit into one “ma’am” when it isn’t customarily used (and it is not used much in western Canada, where I have spent all my life). OK, that makes sense. I don’t agree, since I call virtually everyone “sir” and “ma’am”, but I see where you’re coming from. “Sir” could be used the same way, I reckon. I used to work with a rather misanthropic woman who accused me of being sexist for using the “ma’am”. Of course, she wouldn’t explain why. You’ve just cleared that up for me. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/106 "2010-12-10T21:18:25Z")
Growing up in Texas, it was “yes, sir,” and “no, ma’am” to anyone outside of family. “Yes, sir” and “no, ma’am” were used with parents if you were in so much trouble, the parent called you First Name Middle Name Last Name. One of my aunts followed the rules of etiquette in letter writing so closely that cards sent to my older brother were addressed Mister phoukabro and cards sent to my younger brother were addressed to Master phoukabro. I didn’t come across the habit of addressing elders as Miss First Name or Mister First Name until I read _To Kill a Mockingbird_, and I’ve always thought it was a charming habit. Teaching in Texas - usually subbing - I was ma’ammed when I subbed at elementary and middle schools by pretty much all the students. At the high school level, the well behaved students ma’ammed me, and the not-so-well behaved ones didn’t. No biggie. I prefer to have students refer to me as ma’am, if it’s not Ms. phouka (or Miss, I’ll take that too), because at their age it is still a sign of respect. It shows me they understand there is a certain relationship between us - teacher/student - and not buddies, friends, or pals. Teaching in California, it’s very different. I’ve actually let my Texan accent creep back in, and I use far more idioms and dialect particular to the south than I used to. If a student I have a neutral or positive relationship asks for something, I sir or ma’am that student. If a student is misbehaving and not responding to redirection, I call them Mister/Miss Last Name as a clear indication that They Are In Trouble. I do not use “honey” with anyone but very close friends. Friends, acquaintances, and coworkers I have a positive, informal relationship with may get “hon”. Once, I slipped and called a student “hon,” but she was more surprised and delighted than anything else. Children and teenagers I have a non-academic relationship with (like church, babysitting, or friend’s kids) usually get called hon, bud, and sweetie, but if they show any dislike, I immediately turn it off. When I did some community theater and one of my students was in the cast, I had to explain to her that at the theater, I was just “phouka”, but at school, I was Ms. phouka, because they were different places and roles. She had no trouble with the concept and was relieved to be given guidelines. My own personal philosophy is that you can call me Queen Cunt of Horrible Death if you use a truly respectful tone and respectful/terrified body language. It’s all in the context. Otherwise, I go by intent, and so long as that intent is civil, you can call me Miss, Ma’am, Madam, Hey you, or Lady. I will, in turn, either begin with formal civility or try to match your language register in formality, intimacy, dialect, and culture. It’s not as complicated as I make it sound. Just . . . be polite, be honest about your own needs, and adjust to other people’s needs. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/107 "2010-12-10T23:04:59Z")
My mother, a Yankee school teacher, taught at an elementary school in Virginia\* and fought a never-ending battle against this. It can be cultural. \*South of Richmond, therefore actually “The South”. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/108 "2010-12-11T17:12:02Z")
I’m a New Yorker and only use “Yes, sir” sarcastically at work. This can completely baffle guys from India who tend to be deferential. I don’t think I’ve ever uttered “ma’am” in my entire life. The word seems archaic to me. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/109 "2010-12-11T22:11:08Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > I’m a New Yorker and only use “Yes, sir” sarcastically at work. This can completely baffle guys from India who tend to be deferential. The last time I called a woman “ma’am”, she thought I was being sarcastic. I guess if you’re not used to hearing it, answering “Yes, ma’am” can be as affected-sounding as “Yes, effendi” or “Yes, O great one”. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/110 "2010-12-11T22:20:00Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’ve pretty much nailed my experience with being called “Ma’am.” It isn’t ma’am until they’re trying to “handle” me. We’ve gone around this on the boards before, with the result being that people raised with “sir” and “ma’am” simply don’t understand just how much condescension you can fit into one “ma’am” when it isn’t customarily used (and it is not used much in western Canada, where I have spent all my life). > > I prefer “Hey, Lady!” 😃 To the extent that there is a male equivalent, some comedian had a bit about how he’d like just once to be called “sir” without it being followed with “you’ll have to leave.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/111 "2010-12-11T22:20:16Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > The last time I called a woman “ma’am”, she thought I was being sarcastic. I guess if you’re not used to hearing it, answering “Yes, ma’am” can be as affected-sounding as “Yes, effendi” or “Yes, O great one”. Yes exactly. I sometimes get called “Sir” by people in a semi-formal setting, e.g., as a passenger on a flight yesterday one of the flight attendants called me “Sir” as I was disembarking. That’s fine as it is not totally unexpected and it seems genuine, but if anyone called me sir in an informal setting I’d think they were taking the piss. That’s just how it sounds when you’re in a place where it doesn’t get used much. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/112 "2010-12-12T05:04:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In an authentic Southern Barbecue joint, it is required that the waitress be an older white lady, smoking a cigarette and holding a green tablet of tickets, and that she ask you, “What do want, Honey?” > “I’ll have the beef plate, Ma’am.” > > 🙂 And she’ll say “Bless your heart,” because Southern Barbecue is pork. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/113 "2010-12-12T05:07:10Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > And she’ll say “Bless your heart,” because Southern Barbecue is pork. > > 🙂 Nah, they have beef, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/114 "2010-12-12T13:59:15Z")
But then, it’s when the cops stop calling you “sir” you know you’re about to get your ass beaten. ---
**Author:** ![bethmc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@bethmc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethmc)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/115 "2010-12-12T16:25:00Z")
…but moved away and traveled and lived other places for quite some time before returning to the south to live again, at least for now. I have been astonished at the number of women who are offended by my use of the word “ma’am” when referring to or answering them. What gives? Unfortunately, as many others have posted, it’s an ingrained habit for me. By saying “ma’am” all I’m trying to do is be polite and respectful; hell, I call 5-year-olds “ma’am” because I think everyone should be respected, no matter the age, gender, race, religion, nationality, likes/dislikes, whatever! I give lots of thought to these things because I’m trying to figure out what in the world I’m doing to offend. Am I sounding terse? Do I make a funny face when the word “ma’am” escapes from my lips? How can I change my behavior to not offend people? Ah-Ha! How can I change my behavior to not offend people? Two magic words: “I can’t.” I can be as polite and respectful as I humanly can, but there will always be those people who are simply waiting to be offended. They seem to go about their lives itching for a fight, waiting for (what they consider to be) those fighting words to come their way. There’s absolutely nothing I can do to make these people happy, as they cannot seem to make themselves happy. Many of them go through their lives seeing and hearing the worst of everything, focusing on the negative. These easily offended people are also often rather insecure and, to quote Simon and Garfunkel, “a man hears what he wants to hear / And disregards the rest.” You can’t change someone’s perception. Not at all. I wish them the best. I wish them peace and happiness. Meanwhile, I will try my best to avoid them! I will apologize for my “ma’am” slip of the tongue and run like hell the other way! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/116 "2010-12-12T19:12:51Z")
> [@bethmc](#): > > …but moved away and traveled and lived other places for quite some time before returning to the south to live again, at least for now. > > I have been astonished at the number of women who are offended by my use of the word “ma’am” when referring to or answering them. > > What gives?\ If you had read the thread, you would have read what gives. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/117 "2010-12-12T19:23:11Z")
Here’s what I think is funny. If its MEANT as sign of respect, all you old hags need to GTF over it. I can just imagine some distant country where its considered a sign of respect to squeeze a womans tit when greating her. All the “ma’'ms is a dirty word” women here would probably think it was the height of political diversty, and cultural tolerance to happily embrace such a greating from folks from SqueezeTittystan. Aint that just sooo special!! But, hey, some hicks from the south, the midwest, the southwest, or country bumpkins say ma’am and actually mean it as sign of respect…oh, the fights on bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/118 "2010-12-12T21:38:45Z")
> [@bethmc](#): > > What gives? From what I can tell a bunch of women are insecure about appearing “old” to the point that they are taking your ingrained habit and making it all about them and assuming you mean something that you, apparently, do not. In another thread you might find a few of these ladies telling us how much younger they look than their actual age, but I guess using the world “ma’am” is too much of an assault on self esteem. YOU MONSTER! ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/119 "2010-12-12T22:42:22Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Here’s what I think is funny. > > If its MEANT as sign of respect, all you old hags need to GTF over it. Well, bless your heart, aren’t you just overflowing with respect for women and their pesky opinions tonight. ---
**Author:** ![bethmc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@bethmc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethmc)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536/120 "2010-12-13T03:12:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > If you had read the thread, you would have read what gives. I did read the thread, I was simply trying to provide my take on what I’ve been experiencing for years. And thank you for proving my overall point. Cheers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-being-upset-by-maam-mild/563536.md?page=7)