# Women: Is this a mature way of handling this particular situation in public? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010 "2019-04-24T19:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/122 "2019-05-27T10:36:27Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Oh god, I’d never do that. I know several lesbians who have had guys hit on them and get reaaally nasty after being told the woman is gay. And then there’s the ones who propose a trio. If neither of them by herself is interested in your dick, why would both of them together be? > [@MrDibble](#): > > If you have to poll random strangers on the internet to know whether your behaviour is creepy or not, I think you can safely assume your behaviour is, in fact, creepy. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/123 "2019-05-27T12:21:23Z")
> [@sta3535](#): > > You see, everytime I bring up a topic on here about women or dating, in general, I’m always labeled as the weird guy who should just let it go, even though we think that people in relationships have a better life than single people, which is not always true. I learn something new every so often from non-verbal cues to everyday behaviors. I actually create various threads just to see what’s right from wrong because I want to see what other people think, just like most people on here. I’m fine with your doing that. Ask! Ask! But then you get your answer. Consider, if this is something that doesn’t come easily for you, not disputing the answers quite so much. Whether you’re happier in a sexual/romantic relationship or not is not universal. A lot of folks are, but there are also plenty of folks who are happily single. Maybe that’s for you? As for Inigo’s “you must be desireless” advice, there’s definitely something to that. The two best relationships of my life didn’t form when I was going to parties, when I was crushing on girls, when I was Internet dating. They formed when I got fed the fuck up with everything and decided I wasn’t interested in dating. I think taht let me be low-stress and low-stakes around girls, which made me way more attractive than the hangdog needy self I’d come across as when I was actively interested. It’s weird and counterintuitive, but that’s how it worked for me. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/124 "2019-05-27T15:16:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m fine with your doing that. Ask! Ask! > > But then you get your answer. Consider, if this is something that doesn’t come easily for you, not disputing the answers quite so much. Yeah, I think that that’s the key here. **sta3535** , you’ve insisted here, repeatedly, “I am not creepy,” and “I am not a player.” I’m willing to take you at your word on this: that you truly are a nice guy, that you are simply friendly and looking to meet people. That said, you’ve started two long-running threads here about your frustration that people (especially women) react to you in a way that you find to be rude (i.e., ignoring you when you try to start a conversation) or mean (“spreading rumors” about you). Now, yeah, there are mean-spirited people out there, and there are women who just don’t want to spend even “a couple of minutes” talking to a guy they don’t know. BUT…it’s entirely possible that your approach in meeting new people is, unbeknownst to you, coming off to a significant number of women as “creepy,” and that some people interpret the way you like to talk to women you don’t know as an attempt to be a “player.” You, yourself, have noted that you “have some issues with social skills & communication here & there,” and I suspect that these issues may be at the core of why you’re having these challenges. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/125 "2019-05-27T15:28:37Z")
Too late to edit: I know a guy (he’s the husband of a friend of mine) who is really one of the nicest, friendliest, sweetest people you’d ever meet. He’d gladly give the shirt off of his back to help someone (even a stranger), and he loves to meet people and share stories. But, he is socially awkward as hell. (In fact, he discovered, as an adult, that he has Asperger’s.) He’s awful at reading social cues, and he’s not good at figuring out when he’s making someone uncomfortable and monopolizing their time. Also, it doesn’t help that one of his favorite things to do, when he meets new people, is to share jokes with them, which, unfortunately, are invariably corny “dad jokes,” which he tells in a completely non-ironic fashion. When we’re all at social gatherings, people dread being the ones who this guy corners to talk to. Now, I’m not saying that that’s what you’re like, OP; I’m saying that it’s entirely possible to be a sweet, nice, friendly person, who has no ulterior motives at all, who nonetheless makes people uncomfortable in social situations. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/126 "2019-05-27T15:40:16Z")
> [@sta3535](#): > > Would you rather see someone’s actions instead of them telling you that their not creepy? I just don’t understand when you say something that you’re not, people will still assume that you’re lying, depending on the situation: > > For example, if say: “I’m a pretty cool guy”, then people will ask: “Why do you have to let us know?” or “I’d rather see proof though your actions instead of telling us”… “Cool” in that sense isn’t decided by the person who is or isn’t cool. It’s decided by other people. Saying that you’re cool implies that you’re the one who decides what’s cool and what isn’t; which isn’t cool. (In the sense of “I’m cool with that [specific thing]”, it’s perfectly fine, because then you’re describing your own attitude towards something in particular.) “Creepy” is like “cool” in the first sense. If other people are telling you you’re creepy, they’re describing their reactions. Saying “no I’m not” in response tells them that you think your perception of this overrides theirs. Which is creepy. We’re not talking about things along the line of “is there or is there not a cat on that table?” We’re talking about people’s own perceptions. > [@sta3535](#): > > IMO, I think the biggest test for me is for someone to observe my behaviors/actions at a party. Then, they’ll be able to tell me what’s wrong, even though I have an idea: I only talk when I feel like it: Just because I’m next to a girl or group of people doesn’t mean that 'll necessarily start up a conversation with them. However, I haven’t figured out if moving around the party or staying in one place is better. I’ve been told that both can be good & bad, because if you move around a lot, then some people may wonder why you can’t stay in one spot. Furthermore, if you stay in one spot, then some people may wonder why you’re not moving around as much, especially if the people right next to you feel uncomfortable by your presence, for no reason at all. That reads to me as that you’re looking for a flat set rule that can be memorized and followed. There is no set correct amount of moving around at a party. It depends on the party and the individuals involved and how the particular conversation is or isn’t going. It would be nice, for a lot of people, if there were actually a list of neat precise rules. And some societies have actually tried to develop at least some such. But the one we’re in now doesn’t have a rule for that situation (except in a limited number of formal situations), or for a lot of others. Also: if the people next to you feel uncomfortable by your presence, there is a reason. You may not know the reason; and the reason may have nothing to do with your intent; but, if you realize the people next to you are made uncomfortable by you, then move away. Insisting on staying right next to people who are made uncomfortable by this actually produces a very good reason for them to be uncomfortable. > [@sta3535](#): > > would I really feel better about myself if I was in a relationship with someone? Nobody can answer that but you. Some people really need such relationships; others don’t. What I can answer is: even if you’d feel better if you were in a relationship with the right person, you’d feel a whole lot worse if you were in a relationship with the wrong person. The wrong person for you, that is, though they might be the right person for somebody else. It’s not just a matter of finding somebody, anybody, who is willing to hang on your arm (and/or join in other relevant actions). ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/127 "2019-05-27T15:42:33Z")
> [@sta3535](#): > > I actually create various threads just to see what’s right from wrong because I want to see what other people think, just like most people on here. > > IMO, I think the biggest test for me is for someone to observe my behaviors/actions at a party. Then, they’ll be able to tell me what’s wrong, even though I have an idea: I only talk when I feel like it: Just because I’m next to a girl or group of people doesn’t mean that 'll necessarily start up a conversation with them. However, I haven’t figured out if moving around the party or staying in one place is better. I’ve been told that both can be good & bad, because if you move around a lot, then some people may wonder why you can’t stay in one spot. Furthermore, if you stay in one spot, then some people may wonder why you’re not moving around as much, especially if the people right next to you feel uncomfortable by your presence, for no reason at all. Wait is that what you were trying to do here–solicit feedback on YOUR behavior? Because that’s pretty far from what you wrote in the OP, where you 1) asked women how they responded to the approach of a man they weren’t interested in, and then 2) opined about which response would be more mature on their part. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/128 "2019-05-27T15:49:08Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And then there’s the ones who propose a trio. If neither of them by herself is interested in your dick, why would both of them together be? A gay friend once offered a trio with me and my husband. Um… I didn’t bother to share that offer with my husband. I suppose it was well intentioned. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/129 "2019-05-27T18:19:29Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Wait is that what you were trying to do here–solicit feedback on YOUR behavior? Because that’s pretty far from what you wrote in the OP, where you 1) asked women how they responded to the approach of a man they weren’t interested in, and then 2) opined about which response would be more mature on their part. Hmmm, turned out you were trying to defend your methods in your other thread, titled “Why do some people believe in rumors, especially about other people?” where your OP asked: > [@](#): > > Have you ever been falsely accused of something that you never did?" > > Examples: inappropriate behavior at a bar, club, or college party… Then you quickly made it about you: > [@](#): > > I’ve been falsely accused of acting like a “player” at parties just because I talk to other people, especially girls. I never hooked up with a girl because I’m not interested in that lifestyle, yet I had no intentions with them. However, asking for her Snapchat is fine by me. It might be more honest to just start a thread that asks “Here’s how I act. Does this sound normal? Women, would you chat with someone who exhibits these attitudes?” ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/130 "2019-05-27T21:38:52Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Being afraid that the rejected man will stalk/rape/kill you is only a teeny tiny part of the problem. The biggest problem is just the negative reaction that you get when you say “sorry, not interested”. It never, ever ends then and ends well - ever. > > Not once in my life has the man said “oh, ok thanks and have a nice evening then” and then happily walked away. It’s always “why not” or “come on”. Mostly the reply is something like “your loss you fat, ugly bitch”. Or “something, something bitch”. They always end with “bitch”. > > Sure, it’s not being raped or murdered but being called “bitch” for no reason really puts a damper on your day. And when some stranger who’s trying to impress you calls you “bitch” you really have to wonder if anything else is going to happen. > > Ladies, have you ever had a man politely and happily accept your rejection? Some men will, a large number of men don’t - as a caveat, it depends on where this is happening. If it is somewhere like a grocery store or library, the men are more willing to be nice, but at a party or bar, the men seem more entitled to be asshats about it [I think they figure every woman at a party or bar or entertainment activity are there looking to hook up.] > [@Helena330](#): > > Have you read any of the comments we’ve made?? If you have, you’ve seen several women here say they have no problem striking up conversations with men they don’t know. I’m another one. These are in situations where we feel safe. If you’re not getting polite conversation, it’s YOU. YOU are making the woman uncomfortable. But even if you think you aren’t, no woman owes you anything. Not one thing. This. This. Don’t know how many times we need to point this out. Look, sometimes women HAVE to be nice - you know how many guys I have heard saying that the women waiting tables in restaurants, bars, even strippers ‘are really into them and dig the attention’? NO, FUCK NO, A MILLION TIMES FUCK NO. They _HAVE_ to be nice and smile, or they lose their job. Very few women like to get hit on by random men while they are at work - they are being paid to smile and suck it up. > [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > This chick can confirm. > > When I was 19 and newly single after a 2-year relationship, I attended a 2-week Spanish immersion program in Mexico. There were a couple single guys my age in the program too; one was very cute, the other not so much, though he was friendly, funny, and laid-back. I sensed they were both attracted to me, but I was of course more interested in the cute one at first, and the other guy didn’t push it. But within a couple days, I realized the cute one had a huge chip on his shoulder and was exhausting to be around, so I lost interest. Meanwhile the chubby average-looking guy kept making me laugh and not pressuring me, and, well, I guess his goofy smile grew on me. We hooked up on the beach before the 2 weeks were up. > > Being personable, available, and nonpredatory isn’t a guarantee that a particular woman will eventually decide to sleep with you. Particularly if you feel that women owe you their attention out of “respect,” or that they “overreact over the simplest of things,” and you are play-acting at niceness with the expectation that this will unlock the Vagina Achievement (and you’re going to swear and throw your controller at the screen if it doesn’t work), most women will sense that about you and make for whatever feels to them like the safest, quickest exit. But if you manage to stop seeing women as the obstacles to getting what you want and start seeing them as human beings who 1) don’t owe you anything, 2) are worth getting to know even if no sex will happen as a result, 3) experience the world, and especially dating, in a very different (much scarier and riskier) way than you do, and therefore are entirely justified in being more cautious than you are, and if you can then actually BE personable, available, and nonpredatory (not just do a bad impression of it for five seconds before calling the woman a bitch when she rejects you), then the odds that some woman will eventually sleep with you are excellent even if you’re not cute. (P.S.: it helps if you’re willing to settle for someone in your league. Always amazes me how many average-looking guys expect a supermodel and ignore the average-looking girl checking them out.) A lot of women, me included have discovered the drop dead handsome men have attitudes that make them not really worth anything - you know how many great looking guys suck in bed because they figure their looks are enough? I like a guy that has brains and can have a nice conversation and makes me laugh … > [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Oh god, I’d never do that. I know several lesbians who have had guys hit on them and get reaaally nasty after being told the woman is gay. Or tell them ‘All you need is a _real_ man and you will go straight …’ _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/131 "2019-05-28T13:33:47Z")
There was a scam going on around here where men would almost hit a woman with their car, an then offer her a ride. This happened to me twice. When I said “NO” the drivers tried to turn it into “yes.” I am not getting into any car when the driver almost hits people. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/132 "2019-05-28T23:10:31Z")
I was inspired by digs’ post #128 to poke around sta3535’s posting history, and it was rather illuminating. Sta3535, you remind me of a lot of guys I knew in college. I went to a small arts school that one publication ranked number one for dodgeball targets. Some of us found our tribe in college; others continued to struggle with dating and making friends, and some of those who struggled pointed fingers at everyone but themselves. In two months you’ve started several threads on this board that, taken together, paint a depressing picture of your real-life interactions. Your sense of humor doesn’t jibe with your classmates’ (Taboo things that you find humorous?). Your fashion sense likewise (Fashion & Dressing Your Age: How Important Is It?). You’re thinking about transferring or changing majors because you haven’t found a “real” group of friends as of May (College Survey). You just don’t seem to like the people you meet (Would you agree that most people these days feel rushed and are impatient; Our younger generations include good people, but some of our behaviors/actions poorly represent us), and you don’t seem to feel liked in return (Why do some people believe in rumors, especially about other people?; this thread.) I’m new here myself, but I get the distinct impression that there aren’t many undergrads, or indeed many folks under 35 here, yet this is where you come to gauge interest for an ASMR club on campus, not the people you’ve encountered on campus since September. As others in this thread have stated, not being cool, or even being perceived as creepy, doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. But it appears you have some real struggles with social skills, and no amount of polling strangers on the internet is going to make your peers see the light, or make you less lonely. Your college likely has a counseling center that may be of some use. But ultimately you’re going to have to take a step back from this worldview of “what’s wrong with everyone else?” and start looking within to see what you can do differently to change the common denominator in all your interactions: YOUR actions. ---
**Author:** ![sta3535](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@sta3535](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sta3535)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/133 "2019-05-29T04:02:36Z")
I’m not switching majors or anything, but I create threads on here because I enjoy receiving feedback from other people. Now, some of it is real advice, but this site keeps me company by finding out what other people think of my ideas. Even though I already talk to a professional about me being on high on the spectrum, they think that online forums help me express my ideas without getting too personal. However, I may cross the line here & there, but your feedback really helps me understand more about the real world & how people act. Finally, this thread showed me that everyone is different & that I should respect women & their boundaries, even if they don’t mind talking for a “few minutes”. On an extra note, most of my threads weren’t meant to connect with each other, but I’m glad that you found a way to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/134 "2019-05-29T08:40:28Z")
This is not really directed at the OP, but it’s a big thread now so what the hell: Most people assume that rejection is normal and certainly when I was younger I thought the whole idea was you very overtly “hit on” women, and most will reject you and then hopefully you “get lucky” some proportion of the time. Cos that’s what people say. But as I got older, and my social skills improved, I realized it doesn’t have to be that way. Nowadays I engage all kinds of people in friendly conversation. And if I happen to be talking to a woman I find attractive, I can give her the opportunity to show interest, and step by step proceed towards setting up a date if I keep getting green lights. So…if you’re finding women making excuses to walk away, or abruptly tell you they aren’t interested, that might be OK if you’re inexperienced. We all have to start somewhere. But consider it a hint that you need to work on your conversation skills and awareness of signals. ---
**Author:** ![sta3535](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@sta3535](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sta3535)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010/135 "2019-06-08T05:02:36Z")
Yet, I rarely or never see women flirting with men in bars, clubs, or parties: Men always make the first move. IMO, I think women would benefit if they made the first move. It would show the guy that she’s not afraid to step of her own comfort zone, which equals a strong person IMO. It takes a lot to step out of your own comfort zone: You need to be strong and willing enough to do so. “In other words, women often work hard to send approachable signals first, but it’s men who are expected to express overt interest.” - The Good Men Project On an extra note, even though we sometimes struggle with our approach, we can still improve it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-is-this-a-mature-way-of-handling-this-particular-situation-in-public/833010.md?page=6)