# Women like pockets, but fashionable dresses, etc, don't have them, why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 20, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277 "2022-07-20T19:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/81 "2022-07-21T19:18:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m comfortable saying that that’s 100% that woman’s problem. But does that ever actually happen outside of sitcoms? You’d be wrong to blame her for everyone else noticing and judging her for wearing the same clothes as a co-worker. Yes, I violate the social rules for what women should wear, as you’ve probably noticed from my posts. i’ve had it come up in annual reviews, and I’ve had a number of other experiences that made it really really obvious that I’m not following the rules. I’m sure it restricted my career options. It’s a big deal. It’s not something women can just blithely ignore. > [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > > > I’m surprised to find there are men who use the shirt pockets. > > Well of course, they’re convenient. Where else would I put my pens and pencils, or my glasses when I take them off briefly? In my purse? I have started buying men’s shirts with pockets. I can’t buy men’s pants (they SERIOUSLY don’t fit) but I can wear men’s shirts fine. I have discovered that I love the pocket, and have mostly stopped buying shirts without pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/82 "2022-07-21T19:24:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, why so few pockets? “Curse the Baggins! It’s gone! What has it got in its pocketses? Oh we guess, we guess, my precious. He’s found it, yes he must have.” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/83 "2022-07-21T19:34:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Gorsnak](#): > > > > there’s nothing you can do about it until some market disruptor comes along and actually offers the product you want. > > See: [lingerie](https://vue.ai/blog/leaders-in-retail/the-evolution-of-the-lingerie-industry-and-the-trends-that-govern-it-today/), women’s… how long did that take? Back in the 1970’s and IIRC into the 80’s, I remember being able to get bras that I could stand to wear only from very small companies basically made up of small groups of women, or even a lone woman, inventing the designs and sewing up the product. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/84 "2022-07-21T19:34:52Z")
My wife has several, mostly Disney. But she never uses them. She has a cute backpack she wears to Disneyland. > [@filmore](#): > > For example, my wife’s wallet is pretty large and her keys have several large, decorative fobs that are relatively bulky. The first is true- sometimes- but the second is optional, and mostly due to the point it is not kept in a pocket. I also have a car-key fob, etc, but it fits easily in my Orvis pants & shorts. > [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Yeah. I can’t buy a new mid-priced wagon with a manual transmission. Sadly, not enough people want a stick, except in sports cars. > [@Eonwe](#): > > It turns a perfect winter coat into an exercise in frustration every time I wear it. And this is from a company whose brand is all about functional, traditional yet fashionable outdoor wear. Orvis seems better at this. > [@doreen](#): > > …that the black pants I wore on Monday had useless slash pockets while the nearly identical pair I wore on Tuesday had useless horizontal pockets that zipper at the top. There was a thing decades ago for mens double-knit polyester pants with two useless pockets in front, and one kinda okay pocket in the rear. It was more or less a uniform for dudes working retail, but guys used to hate them. > [@Chronos](#): > > Well of course, they’re convenient. Where else would I put my pens and pencils, or my glasses when I take them off briefly? Yeah, they are perfect for reading and or sunglasses. You seem to have excellent taste in comfortable clothes. > [@Jasmine](#): > > “Curse the Baggins! It’s gone! What has it got in its pocketses? Oh we guess, we guess, my precious. He’s found it, yes he must have.” LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/85 "2022-07-21T19:39:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You’d be wrong to blame her for everyone else noticing and judging her for wearing the same clothes as a co-worker. > > Yes, I violate the social rules for what women should wear, as you’ve probably noticed from my posts. i’ve had it come up in annual reviews, and I’ve had a number of other experiences that made it really really obvious that I’m not following the rules. Wait, seriously? Bringing up something like that in a performance review is a lawsuit waiting to happen. As for claims that the appearance of pockets ruins the look of a garment, why then do so many women’s clothes have fake pockets? If you’re going to put in something that looks like a pocket, why not put in a pocket? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/86 "2022-07-21T19:40:19Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > I don’t care too much about pockets if I’m wearing dressy clothes but why in the heck don’t the pants that I wear when I walk the dogs have pockets? They’re kind of like sweatpants but not as baggy. This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Women’s pajama pants often don’t have pockets. And I mean the slobby ones. This has nothing to do with ruining the line, or fashion. It’s just that pockets are (I’m sure) expensive to add, and since they can get away with not adding them, they don’t. And it is a low enough margin item that no one is fighting for market share in the cheap PJs and work slacks niche. When I am buying PJs at Target, I just pick from what they have, and none have pockets (though now I buy men’s pjs, since I discovered they have pockets!) I do think phones are ramping up the demand for pockets. It used to be you could carry your purse or bag to work or where ever and leave it in your desk. You didn’t carry anything when just walking around work. But now you need to carry your phone, but who wants to carry a purse when you are going to a quick meeting down the hall, or to the break room for lunch? And it is the same at home. I like to have my phone in my pocket, even my pj pockets. So the lack is more keenly felt. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/87 "2022-07-21T19:42:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As for claims that the appearance of pockets ruins the look of a garment, why then do so many women’s clothes have fake pockets? Note that I, at least, said that this could be the case for pockets _that had something inside of them_. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/88 "2022-07-21T20:00:59Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > The salesman said (probably not exact wording, but close) ‘we don’t carry any like that because they’d make the feet look large and women wouldn’t buy them.’ > > > > He said that to two women who were standing in front of him asking to buy them. > > I understand what you’re saying, and I agree, but I have to play devil’s advocate for a moment: > > Is it possible that what people _want_ is not exactly the same as what they _think_ they want? > Is it possible that what people _think_ they want is not exactly the same as what they would actually _buy_? All sorts of things are at least theoretically possible. I can guarantee you that, in that particular incidence, if the store had had what we were trying to buy, we would have bought it. And I don’t see how vague statements to the effect of ‘maybe nobody knows their own minds’ are useful. > [@carrps](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > And when they do, they usually also adjust the rise in the same direction as the inseam. I need a short inseam and a long rise > > Holy moly, I _knew_ you were my sister under the skin! Do you also need combination last shoes, and have toes that don’t taper? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > if you can find the same style of shoes for both men’s and women’s sizes (and you sometimes can – i have wide feet and sometimes the men’s version fits me better) the men’s version will often cost 20% more. Men’s versions of nearly anything often seem to last longer. > [@Chronos](#): > > As for claims that the appearance of pockets ruins the look of a garment, why then do so many women’s clothes have fake pockets? If you’re going to put in something that looks like a pocket, why not put in a pocket? Long answer: Because if it’s an actual pocket, people will put things in them, and depending on what the things are and how the pocket is designed and how the rest of the garment is designed, that may indeed change how the garment hangs and how it looks. Short answer: are you expecting fashion to make sense? That is, I suppose it makes its own kind of sense. But that has nothing to do with any other sensible purpose for clothing; and in fact is often contradictory to other purposes of clothing. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/89 "2022-07-21T20:24:54Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do you also need combination last shoes, and have toes that don’t taper? My toes don’t especially taper, but I’ve never worn combination last shoes. Maybe I should try them. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/90 "2022-07-21T20:58:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Yes, I violate the social rules for what women should wear, as you’ve probably noticed from my posts. i’ve had it come up in annual reviews, and I’ve had a number of other experiences that made it really really obvious that I’m not following the rules. > > Wait, seriously? Bringing up something like that in a performance review is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Nonsense. Every company has a dress code, and can tell you what it thinks is professional attire for your job. They didn’t say, “you dress like a man”, they said, “you should dress more professionally, your clothes are sloppy”. It was actually really awkward, because my boss lived in a different city, and had barely seen me, and he was giving feedback based on what the sales rep had told him about me. > [@Chronos](#): > > As for claims that the appearance of pockets ruins the look of a garment, why then do so many women’s clothes have fake pockets? If you’re going to put in something that looks like a pocket, why not put in a pocket? I assume the thing that looks like a pocket uses less fabric and is cheaper. And it’s stuff in the pockets that affects the drape, not so much the exterior appearance. Women’s suits often did have jacket pockets. They came sewn shut, but there was a real pocket inside. I had people berate me for opening them up, because it would ruin the line of the jacket. But, as I’ve mentioned above, if a garment has fake pockets, a tailor can usually convert them to real pockets. For a fee. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/91 "2022-07-21T21:48:55Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > My toes don’t especially taper, but I’ve never worn combination last shoes. Maybe I should try them. If you can find any, please let me know. Wide at the front of the foot, narrow at the heel. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/92 "2022-07-21T21:57:40Z")
In the late '80s I interviewed a designer of women’s clothes (he was doing a trunk show of a line of what the store called “mid-priced” skirted suits–they were $700, in the late '80s I did not consider that mid-priced, just saying this for the record). He said, “Because women would put things in them, and that would ruin the line.” So I asked him how come men got pockets and put things in them and didn’t ruin the line, and he went into a whole thing about how men’s clothes used more fabric and had a looser fit and men’s clothes were not necessarily designed to show off the shape of the man. So I said something about, “So the primary thing in women’s clothes is to show off the shape of the woman?” And he said basically yes. Or not to hide it. And also, women being generally smaller than men, the pockets would also be generally smaller. But the basic thing was not to hide the woman’s shape. To enhance it. (I have to say that a woman approximately 6’2" in height and weighing maybe 108 pounds was walking around in his suits and she looked fabulous. During the course of the interview a dumpy normal-sized middle-aged woman came in for her fitting and once in the outfit, she also looked fabulous, much less middle-aged and considerably less dumpy.) It seemed to me (and still does!) that a clothing designer with enough talent to make clothes that turn a short dumpy woman into a sleek-looking fashion statement ought to be able to incorporate a couple of useful pockets in a garment somewhere or other. But this designer seemed to think there was no demand. Every woman I knew would have bought things with pockets but maybe I knew a bunch of outliers. It’s possible. Now at that time Chanel did in fact include pockets. It was not a mid-priced line. Even inside breast pockets, although they were small. But certainly large enough to accommodate a small wallet with a bit of cash and your credit cards and driver’s license, if anybody made a small wallet for women. But the other thing is that designers who make garments also make handbags. If you put in useful pockets maybe women wouldn’t buy your handbags. Of course they don’t want to tank the market for handbags. So those have been turned into fashion statements and necessities, by marketing and the lack of any place else to carry your stuff. And then there are tennis clothes. For a brief halcyon period it was possible to buy tennis skirts and tennis dresses that had pockets sufficient to hold tennis balls, which in my mind is a completely necessary function of tennis attire. I still have a tennis skirt circa mid-'90s, made by Descent, that can hold three balls, two in the left pocket adn one in the right, and can do it without making me look bulgy. But then the makers of tennis attire decided that an upside-down pocket in the shorts that go under the skirt would be better. It is not better. It’s upside-down! Along with learning the technique of picking a ball up off the court without bending over women now have to learn the technique of getting the ball into and out of the pocket gracefully. And by gracefully I mean with one hand, quickly, without having to lift up the skirt and futz about. And there is still a bulge. I would much prefer to just drop the ball into the pocket, not to mention that as a casual player I put other things into those pockets than tennis balls (like my keys, and my sunglasses if the day is going from sunny to cloudy and back), and these things would absolutely fall out of an upside-down pocket, and so will the ball on occasion. Or women just tuck the balls inside their compression shorts or into their waistband–and yes they look bulgy. And it’s awkward. And who cares if your hips look bigger, on the tennis court? So every woman I play tennis with either sews on a patch pocket or two, or takes the new $70 tennis skirt to a seamstress/tailor and pays another $50 to get pockets put into it. This is not reasonable. If I could find a ready-to-wear tennis outfit with pockets I would buy it, and I have looked. They just aren’t there. Why not? Tenniswear makers don’t even have the excuse of not wanting to tank their handbag business. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/93 "2022-07-21T23:43:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, seriously? Bringing up something like that in a performance review is a lawsuit waiting to happen. In the 30+ performance reviews I’ve had at three companies (six or seven if you count mergers and acquisitions as resulting in a new company) there must have been at least a dozen times where my manager has said something that is “a lawsuit waiting to happen”. Yet no lawsuits. Discrimination lawsuits are very hard to win. Most lawyers will tell you to just walk away. Most career counselors/coaches will tell you not to rock the boat. Lawsuits are expensive and many, many people are either inclined to believe that most discrimination claims are merit less or that race/sex discrimination is justified. Even if you win, you are toasting your career. I have coworkers who sued and won, but were then blackballed, while the offender was promoted repeatedly at that and other companies. $300k is not a lot of money if you can’t find another $100k job ever again (1990s money). Heck a coworker who went to PRISON for something she did at work came out and had a better career than the complainant who started the wheels rolling on her getting charged. Being willing to go to prison for your employer is a more valuable trait to most employers than being willing to go to the feds to rat them out. Sorry, pet peeve of mine. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/94 "2022-07-22T00:30:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As for claims that the appearance of pockets ruins the look of a garment, why then do so many women’s clothes have fake pockets? Same reason some Buicks have fake engine compartment vent ports. For decoration. Like others said, the problem is that if they are functional, people will put stuff in them and **that** will “break the lines”. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > But the other thing is that designers who make garments also make handbags. Yep. Collusion. They want to sell you that handbag or purse. And that other, and that other… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/95 "2022-07-22T01:04:43Z")
Yup. I don’t even think complaining about my dumpy clothing was illegal. What WAS illegal was when I interviewed for a job, and the older man told me I shouldn’t take it, because I ought to be focusing on my small children, and not taking a high-power job. But I sure as hell didn’t sue. I work in a small industry. I would never have gotten another job if I had a reputation for being difficult and potentially suing my employer. I just looked for a different job. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/96 "2022-07-22T12:59:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You do surveys, and focus groups, and ask customers what they want. If the information isn’t good enough, that’s still the result of companies making stupid business decisions. But the consumers also need perfect information about where to find pockets pants. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Sadly, not enough people want a stick, except in sports cars. 0.9% according to one friend in the industry but the stick is coming back to the Subaru WRX at least. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/97 "2022-07-22T19:54:59Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You’d be wrong to blame her for everyone else noticing and judging her for wearing the same clothes as a co-worker. Who notices, and what is the basis for their negative judgments of the two women who accidentally wore matching clothes on the same day? Maybe I run in the wrong circles, but I can’t imagine thinking badly of a woman in these circumstances, even if I did happen to notice. If it ever happened in my workplace, I’d be surprised if anyone found it to be anything more than an amusing novelty that brightened their day. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/98 "2022-07-22T20:25:23Z")
Being female myself, I truly don’t care if someone shows up wearing something that matches me. Might be amused, might not bother to notice, would NOT consider it the earth-shattering calamity I’m apparently supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/99 "2022-07-22T20:36:59Z")
I do remember a sdmb story of a doper who went to a viewing only to find out that she and the deceased were wearing the same outfit. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277/100 "2022-07-22T21:06:22Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Being female myself, I truly don’t care if someone shows up wearing something that matches me. Might be amused, might not bother to notice, would NOT consider it the earth-shattering calamity I’m apparently supposed to. Yes, this is a trope that I’ve only ever seen on crappy TV shows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-like-pockets-but-fashionable-dresses-etc-dont-have-them-why/968277.md?page=6)