# Women making the first move **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117 "2010-02-15T20:53:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/61 "2010-02-17T14:09:27Z")
I have had a woman pursue me a few times and have always been pleased and flattered. That doesn’t mean I have never pursued or am too shy to. But it works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/62 "2010-02-17T14:18:19Z")
As I sort of implied, it also depends on the type of guy you’re chasing. If you want an alpha male who considers himself a chick magnet or what have you, probably better to let him ask. But, if like me, you prefer the book-smart studious gentleman, you’d better ask because it might be a year before he gets around to it. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/63 "2010-02-18T18:42:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The statistics are on your side, though. The odds of a guy being interested in just about any woman are probably better than even, even if they hadn’t given a particular woman any thought before. > [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > I agree with **Dio**. In my case at least I need a concrete reason to say no rather than a reason to say yes. Any random woman off the street would at least get an agreement to a coffee or a casual dinner barring some immediately obvious reason why it wouldn’t work. Well, that hasn’t been my experience at all. Out of all the times I approached first, exactly one didn’t turn me down flat. And he freaked out and bailed after a week. I don’t doubt that it’s not any easier for guys, though; and this isn’t an argument in favor of sitting on your ass waiting to be pursued. It’s just to point out that women aren’t automatically given entry, either. I honestly have no idea where that trope came from, because it’s so far from the reality I’ve seen with my own two eyes. > [@MandaJo](#): > > This view of the world is incorrect. Men can be as picky and capricious as women. However, many women buy into it to some degree, and it creates a crippling fear of rejection. And this can have an emotional impact, even if intellectually you **know** better. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/64 "2010-02-18T19:11:06Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > I have never had things go well when I was the aggressor, not once. (I’m a female.) Men are wired to chase. If he’s interested, he’ll pursue me. If he doesn’t - he’s not that interested. My husband is the shyest man on the planet (I’m talking “on medication for Social Anxiety Disorder” shy here) and he somehow found the guts to call me. If he can do it, so can other guys. > > What woman would WANT a guy who is so wimpy that he needs someone to take the “pressure” off of him by being the aggressor? What else is he not going to be able to handle if they hook up and build a life together? Off the market, eh; more’s the pity. Incidentally, if men are ‘wired to chase’ and will pursue when interested as a sort of biological (as opposed to societal) fact – a fact upon which your interpretation of your everyday experience rests - to whom does your second paragraph refer? Something other than the real men, am I right? Ladies, make some noo----iiiiiise. While we’re here, can I get a list of things women are wired for? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/65 "2010-02-18T19:33:49Z")
Panda, When you say you were the aggressor, what do you mean? Do you mean actually making a request that was overtly you asking a man out on a date? How did you go about it? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/66 "2010-02-18T19:42:56Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > If he’s interested, he’ll pursue me. I guarantee that this is frequently untrue. I can also guarantee that not a single man here would disagree with me. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/67 "2010-02-18T19:50:44Z")
True, but if he’s not manly enough to ask her out, there’s an excellent chance he won’t be manly enough to keep the serfs in line, or catch her when she faints. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/68 "2010-02-18T19:52:34Z")
And what if she’s not womanly enough to faint with appropriate regularity? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/69 "2010-02-18T20:23:44Z")
Oh, please. It’s not necessarily a matter of being unmanly. It could be that he’s uncertain or that he prefers to take things more slowly. Heck, maybe he thinks that the woman is attached, or maybe he’s been getting all the wrong signals from the lady. Or maybe he has some fresh emotional wounds that need to heal. There could be any number of reasons why he’s holding back. It’s unfortunate (and I’m trying to be polite here) that if a man is interested but doesn’t make the first move, some people assume that he’s simply being “unmanly.” Amendment: After reading **DianaG** ’s other posts, it seems like she was just being sardonic or sarcastic. If that’s the case, then I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/70 "2010-02-18T20:28:15Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Oh, please. It’s not necessarily a matter of being unmanly. It could be that he’s uncertain or that he prefers to take things more slowly. Heck, maybe he thinks that the woman is attached, or maybe he’s been getting all the wrong signals from the lady. Or maybe he has some fresh emotional wounds that need to heal. There could be any number of reasons why he’s holding back. > > It’s unfortunate (and I’m trying to be polite here) that if a man is interested but doesn’t make the first move, some people assume that he’s simply being “unmanly.” > > Amendment: After reading **DianaG** ’s other posts, it seems like she was just being sardonic or sarcastic. If that’s the case, then I apologize. Thunder, I think it’s safe to say Diana was bein sarcastic. Unless she’s a fan of the feodal system of labor. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/71 "2010-02-18T21:08:58Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I have a terrible track record with being the initiator/aggressor. (I am female, if that’s relevant.) I’m very much a go-get-it-don’t-sit-back-and-wait kind of person. I have been asking out friends – not randoms I meet in bars, but people I’ve actually known for a while. I’ve even managed to get a couple of dates. Then the guy blows me off (currently, I’m something like 0 for 5) and I’m left wondering wtf I did. So I ask my guy friends (some married, some single) and they all say, “It’s all about the chase. You need to sit back and let him come to you.” Here’s the thing: you can be the aggressor initially, 'cause we love that - but don’t be the aggressor _all_ the time. Want a second date? Let him make the move. Want to kiss? Let him make the move. We’re still hard wired to hunt, remember! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/72 "2010-02-18T21:16:37Z")
I would say that RNATB’s statements are true for some and false for some. Also, as a guy, yes, you can ask me out. The number of females I was interested in but too shy to ask out is enormous–but what’s more retroactively annoying to my freshman-in-college self was how many of them became friends, and later on (as in, a decade later, after they married someone else) let on that they wondered why I never asked them out they were really into the idea. So yes, ASK. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/73 "2010-02-18T21:59:15Z")
I’ve read somewhere that the only activity humans are “hardwired” to perform is to suckle as newborn infants. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/74 "2010-02-18T22:49:42Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > True, but if he’s not manly enough to ask her out, there’s an excellent chance he won’t be manly enough to keep the serfs in line, or catch her when she faints. I don’t even understand how a lady could be the aggressor. What does she do, greet her gentlemen callers in an overly enthusiastic manner? I really hate when people call men wimps. Anyone who insists on an ‘alpha male,’ whatever that is, is going to get what they deserve. Can’t figure out why he won’t change the kids’ diapers after work? Don’t understand why he thinks you should quit your job and live off an allowance, because it’s tradition? Think he’ll be up for marriage counseling after chopping that wood? Bah. ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/75 "2010-02-18T23:16:15Z")
Here is what I have found (not bringing into it my bad taste in men)- Men don’t have to be especially interested in someone to date them. I do. So I ask a guy out, go out a few times just to find that I am waaaay more interested in him than he is in me. I have to dump him because I had hoped for more. It has nothing to do with being too much of a wall flower to ask a guy out, I just don’t want to waste time with someone who isn’t that into me. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/76 "2010-02-18T23:29:52Z")
Eh, I don’t follow rules and am all for women making the first move, yadda yadda. That said, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say that assertiveness in a male is an attractive trait to many reasonable-thinking women. If some amount of get-up-and-go is their thing, there’s logic behind wanting the man to go out on that limb. It’s the easiest way to screen out those who not only aren’t interested in them but also too passive for their tastes. I don’t think men place as much premium on assertiveness as women do, which is why men typically aren’t as turned off by women who sit and wait to be pursued. Attitudes are changing, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/77 "2010-02-18T23:37:56Z")
> [@dukette71](#): > > Here is what I have found (not bringing into it my bad taste in men)- > > Men don’t have to be especially interested in someone to date them. I do. So I ask a guy out, go out a few times just to find that I am waaaay more interested in him than he is in me. I have to dump him because I had hoped for more. It has nothing to do with being too much of a wall flower to ask a guy out, I just don’t want to waste time with someone who isn’t that into me. Sure, but I’m not certain that it follows that it’s better to let the man doing the asking. The reasoning is counterintuitive but here goes: If Man A asks Woman A out, it’s reasonable to infer that he is more interested in her than he is in Woman B who he hasn’t asked out. But, it does not follow that if Man A asks you out, he’s more interested in you than Man B (who hasn’t asked you out) is interested in you. So asking out can be used as a sign of higher interest WITHIN the same man, but not BETWEEN men. It’s also a pretty safe bet that the men who do the most asking out (those most likely to ask you out) are those who don’t need to be all that interested before they ask a woman out. I don’t know if there’s a 20/80 rule when it comes to men and date requests, but it really wouldn’t surprise me. In short: asking out=/= that much into you not asking out =/= not that much into you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/78 "2010-02-19T01:27:43Z")
I don’t know about other guys, but when I say I want women to ask me out, I’m picturing women I’m already attracted to. Having to say no to someone I’m not attracted to is not something I like to do. I will more likely go out with you just to give you a chance\* rather than say no too quickly. But that just makes it harder to say no. I can understand some guys just disappearing rather than saying anything. I know the first girl who asked me out, I just stopped accepting her calls. Hopefully I’d do better than that now. \*A lot of women I’ve known that I didn’t think were that attractive at first wound up being extremely attractive as I got to know them. Mostly because I like really warm and affectionate women, to the point where that can override my initial impression of how attractive they’d be. ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/79 "2010-02-19T03:25:49Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Sure, but I’m not certain that it follows that it’s better to let the man doing the asking. The reasoning is counterintuitive but here goes: > If Man A asks Woman A out, it’s reasonable to infer that he is more interested in her than he is in Woman B who he hasn’t asked out. > > But, it does not follow that if Man A asks you out, he’s more interested in you than Man B (who hasn’t asked you out) is interested in you. > > So asking out can be used as a sign of higher interest WITHIN the same man, but not BETWEEN men. > > It’s also a pretty safe bet that the men who do the most asking out (those most likely to ask you out) are those who don’t need to be all that interested before they ask a woman out. I don’t know if there’s a 20/80 rule when it comes to men and date requests, but it really wouldn’t surprise me. > > In short: asking out=/= that much into you > not asking out =/= not that much into you. I agree that B may be more interested than A, but the woman has the choice to reject A’s offer and hope for B. The woman just wants to avoid the guy who is equally interested in every woman. I disagree on your point that the men that ask women aren’t necessarily interested. Everyone hates rejection. BTW, Thanks for not just screaming “BULLSHIT” at me. ---
**Author:** ![Cyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@Cyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117/80 "2010-02-19T03:39:12Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Off the market, eh; more’s the pity. > While we’re here, can I get a list of things women are wired for? Speaking just for me, as a woman 1. chocolate [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-making-the-first-move/529117.md?page=5)