# Women (over)react to catcalling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120 "2009-08-20T20:36:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/321 "2009-08-24T19:57:57Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > You should probably learn how to take a joke. You mean I was too quick to take offense at something where no serious offense was intended? Gee, you have much to teach me in that regard. I can only aspire to lead your lighthearted, carefree approach to life someday, with a heart filled with good will and charity toward all. > [@](#): > > My point was that this kind of crap pisses me off. I unfortunately had to explain to people that I do not honestly advocate MURDER, since hyperbole goes unrecognized 'round these parts. Couldn’t it be that it was a point badly made? Perhaps you bear some responsibility for the reactions of others? Naaaah. > [@](#): > > I will also point out, that I was not actually going to find these women’s names and home addresses, and send them chocolates. No shit. It was a clear expression of approval of their actions. You can’t seriously blame people for interpreting it as such, no matter how much you would like to disassociate yourself from your own statements. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/322 "2009-08-24T20:04:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Sorry, but no. The guy in the original story was the victim of a crime, but he wasn’t oppressed. Oppression is the harming of a group of people by society or by a significant portion of society, not a couple of jerks beating up someone else. This is a really astute distinction between two related concepts. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/323 "2009-08-24T20:04:21Z")
Oh great. Now I have a total internet crush on **Robin Goodfellow**. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/324 "2009-08-24T20:09:52Z")
I have been following this thread and I am more and more lost with every post, maybe it’s a cultural or language deficiency on my part. If any of you, men or women, ever visit Havana I am here to tell you that you will hear catcalls directed at you. It’s part of life in Cuba, and if I ever took a walk down the Malecon and no one called anything out to me about my appearance I would think I had gone deaf. Not everything called out will be complementary, and not everything will be friendly, but you will get those too. Men and women commenting on aspects of your anatomy, or clothing, or the way you walk, or even of the color of your shirt! I know this is not true of every culture, especially the cultures of the US and Canada. But this thread is making me think that some of those who have posted here will absolutely die of apoplexy if they ever visit Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/325 "2009-08-24T20:14:54Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > So what did you think of my response to that post? I looked back but I couldn’t see an argument, sorry. Could you point me to what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/326 "2009-08-24T20:32:27Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I looked back but I couldn’t see an argument, sorry. Could you point me to what you mean? You didn’t look very hard, because I responded to what you quoted three posts later. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/327 "2009-08-24T20:36:27Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > You mean I was too quick to take offense at something where no serious offense was intended? Gee, you have much to teach me in that regard. I can only aspire to lead your lighthearted, carefree approach to life someday, with a heart filled with good will and charity toward all.Couldn’t it be that it was a point badly made? Perhaps you bear some responsibility for the reactions of others? Naaaah.No shit. It was a clear expression of approval of their actions. You can’t seriously blame people for interpreting it as such, no matter how much you would like to disassociate yourself from your own statements. Okay, you’re right. My jokes are bad, but I’m not backing off shit. If a mom’s daughter breaks curfew and the mother says, “I’m going to kill her,” do you get up in arms about a mother threatening to kill her child? “Oh nos! You can’t advocate murder! Sometimes kids break rules, be fair!” Of course not. Yes, the mother is clearly indicating disapproval of the daughter’s breaking of the rules, but this is not a serious threat on the girl’s life. The child should be punished, but maybe murder might not be the most apt punishment. Maybe, depends on how many times the child has done it\*. So unless you define disassociating myself from my statements as me clarifying that I don’t really want to KILL every man who whistles, and that I was engaging in some perhaps poorly delivered exaggeration, I’m exactly where I was to begin with. I feel the same as I have for years now. Guys who harass the shit out of women in public wouldn’t be entirely undeserving of a kick in the nuts. > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Oh great. Now I have a total internet crush on **Robin Goodfellow**. Me too. Don’t tell anyone. \*Remain pantsed. I do not advocate killing teenagers for breaking curfew. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/328 "2009-08-24T20:57:39Z")
Sorry, I still don’t see what you’re arguing. I agree with MissIntent in post 230 that they’re both forms of bullying (aggressive assertion of power intended to intimidate) against women. In post 237 you say > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > “Hey baby, how about some fries with that shake?” ≠ Forcing one’s penis into an unwilling recipient. Which doesn’t contradict that, because an analogy isn’t an equation. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/329 "2009-08-24T21:20:10Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > If a mom’s daughter breaks curfew and the mother says, “I’m going to kill her,” do you get up in arms about a mother threatening to kill her child? “Oh nos! You can’t advocate murder! Sometimes kids break rules, be fair!” Of course not. Yes, the mother is clearly indicating disapproval of the daughter’s breaking of the rules, but this is not a serious threat on the girl’s life. True! But how about a closer analogy? Imagine that a child had just in fact been severely beaten for breaking curfew. Someone posts about it on a message board. Then someone else posts “Teenagers these days have no respect for rules. Breaking curfew leads to criminal behavior. Children who disobey their parents deserve to be beaten.” I might think the second post was at worst condoning battery and at best in very poor taste. > [@](#): > > Guys who harass the shit out of women in public wouldn’t be entirely undeserving of a kick in the nuts. You know, I actually agree with you, although I suspect our definitions of “harass the shit out of” differ somewhat. I also believe that just because someone deserves something doesn’t mean it’s necessary to give it to him. “Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/330 "2009-08-24T21:21:56Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > To me, ignoring assholes is not the same as “taking abuse”. Clearly, our mileage varies here, but I think that the key is, again, I’m not ignoring them because I figure the alternative is to escalate the situation. I’m dismissing them because they simply do not matter. So you think it’s okay for someone to harass people, whether it’s catcalling at women or something more universally disapproved of like screaming slurs, because you can just brush it off? You think sexist, racist, homophobic, or other bigoted attitudes are just fine to express in a confrontational manner to strangers in public? > [@mswas](#): > > Well I tried to make a poll asking how often this happens but no women answered. _shrugs_ I directed you to a thread that many of the women in this thread, as well as quite a few others, participated in. Not my fault you were too lazy to read it. > [@Robin\_Goodfellow](#): > > I’ll field this one. That whole post was full of awesome. Here, I made a crappy ASCII version of a blue ribbon for you: O\< ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/331 "2009-08-24T21:30:00Z")
> [@Robin\_Goodfellow](#): > > Whistling is a symbol - it’s a shorthand, polite/degrading way of saying “I’d have sex with you.” Egads! What did it mean when I whistled at that Lamborghini at the stoplight then? ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/332 "2009-08-24T21:32:05Z")
That if you could catch up to it, you’d fuck it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/333 "2009-08-24T21:38:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So you think it’s okay for someone to harass people, whether it’s catcalling at women or something more universally disapproved of like screaming slurs, because you can just brush it off? You think sexist, racist, homophobic, or other bigoted attitudes are just fine to express in a confrontational manner to strangers in public? No, I don’t think it’s _okay_. I just maintain that a simple roll of the eyes or “Fuck off, asshole” is sufficient response. You’re the one who seems to think that all you can do is cower, hit them, or call the cops, which I don’t understand at all. You’re the one who insists that words have power over people, so try some of your own. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/334 "2009-08-24T21:54:53Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Sorry, I still don’t see what you’re arguing. I agree with MissIntent in post 230 that they’re both forms of bullying (aggressive assertion of power intended to intimidate) against women. > > In post 237 you say > > Which doesn’t contradict that, because an analogy isn’t an equation. Let me know when you’ve finished reading the rest of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/335 "2009-08-24T21:56:42Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > .You know, I actually agree with you, although I suspect our definitions of “harass the shit out of” differ somewhat. I also believe that just because someone deserves something doesn’t mean it’s necessary to give it to him. > > “Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in > your bounty.” General pestering is the whistling and Hey Baby and the like. Harassment is doing it repeatedly even after ignored, or told to go away. Harassing the \*shit \*out of is following, name-calling and sometimes threats. > [@DianaG](#): > > No, I don’t think it’s _okay_. I just maintain that a simple roll of the eyes or “Fuck off, asshole” is sufficient response. You’re the one who seems to think that all you can do is cower, hit them, or call the cops, which I don’t understand at all. You’re the one who insists that words have power over people, so try some of your own. Well of course it’s a sufficient response, but there’s not a whole lot one can do to make it stop. I’m not sure if “Fuck off” has been effective for you, but it works for me sometimes, and other times it only pisses the guy off. My personal favorite is when I’m informed that I have an attitude when I tell these douche nozzles to fuck themselves. Really? I will never understand this apparent lack of logic for the life of me. _I_ have an attitude problem, but _you_ heckled the _shit out of_ a complete stranger. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/336 "2009-08-24T22:00:33Z")
Lord Ashtar, I have read the thread. Have you made an argument I’m genuinely missing? If so, I would appreciate it if you could point/link me to it. I apologise for the confusion, but I thought you meant that your post 229 was a refutation of the analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/337 "2009-08-24T22:54:20Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Lord Ashtar, > > I have read the thread. Have you made an argument I’m genuinely missing? If so, I would appreciate it if you could point/link me to it. I apologise for the confusion, but I thought you meant that your post 229 was a refutation of the analogy. I got into further detail on why I think it’s a lousy analogy in 245. But basically it boils down to rape and cat calling not being even remotely analogous and also being little more than appeals to emotion. I’ve yet to see anyone refute anything I’ve put in that post. Since you came in late and were championing the comparison, I would like to hear your thoughts on this. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/338 "2009-08-24T23:12:49Z")
I guess I’m not understanding why you don’t think it is an invalid analogy. For what it’s worth, I think it is valid to draw an analogy between racial slurs and lynching. The difference seems to be that the physical assault is so socially unacceptable as to be emotionally outrageous, whereas verbal assault is not. I think that’s what you mean when you say the analogies are appeals to emotion. However, I am still of the opinion that both street harassment and rape (of women) are bullying women because they are women, and racial slurs and lynchings are bullying non-whites because they are not white. They are all aggressive assertions of power from a powerful class (men, or whites) aimed at a less powerful class (women, or ethnic minorities). If you disagree with that characterisation, I would like to hear why. ---
**Author:** ![Robin\_Goodfellow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Robin\_Goodfellow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robin_Goodfellow)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/339 "2009-08-24T23:45:00Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Me too. Don’t tell anyone. > > > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > > > Oh great. Now I have a total internet crush on **Robin Goodfellow**. **blushes and writes ‘Internet Crush’ on his blue ribbon** Yay! 😃 I feel loved. > [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Egads! What did it mean when I whistled at that Lamborghini at the stoplight then? Probably that symbols are complex and mean different things when applied to people as to objects. Since people call cars ‘sexy,’ tho, it’s likely that your underlying message was the same. Be careful how you approach the actual logistics of the engagement, however: I once tried autofellatio, but burned my lips on the tailpipe. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/340 "2009-08-25T00:35:34Z")
Sometimes they yell stuff, you ignore them, and they try to run you down shouting horrid things at you. (I just realized I’m on the wrong page. This was directed at the “guy in car not a threat” post by DianaG, and MissIntent’s response from Page 6.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=18)