# Women (over)react to catcalling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120 "2009-08-20T20:36:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/361 "2009-08-25T15:20:21Z")
Haha! It’s actually happened to me several times, and in cities I didn’t even live in! I must look like I know where I’m going. I was talking to **kidchameleon**. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/362 "2009-08-25T15:20:27Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yeah, except I’ve never had street peddlers follow me, or call me a bitch, or question whether or not I thought I was too good for what they were selling, etc. They ram a CD in your face, you keep walking, and that’s the end of that. While a lot of street hecklers will go away if ignored, a lot of them will not. A lot of them will _keep heckling_ (Dude, can’t you see I don’t want to talk to you?), and in some cases turn nasty or even follow you. If every asshole just left it at mere pestering, a simple whistle or “Hey babe,” I’d regard them with a slightly higher level of irritation than I do the guy who’s selling bootlegged DVDs. Street preachers and the like have \*never \*been persistent enough to bug me after they’ve been ignored. They also bother me less because they’re not specifically sexist. They’re equal opportunity annoying people. It is unfortunate that that has been your experience, and that you seem to dismiss the other anecdotes from other women stating that this seldom, if ever, happens to them. A lot of hecklers seem to keep heckling… _to you_ (unfortunately). The harrassments I’ve suffered have not been to cat-callers. And seriously, when I was younger I was told to ignore negative comments from strangers. I do the same now for them. And it works. _Shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/363 "2009-08-25T15:22:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A whistle says, “I am getting sexual pleasure from looking at you, and I would like to get more sexual pleasure from having intercourse with you. I do not care whether or not you have any desire to serve as the object of my sexual pleasure. You should be gratified and honored that you are an object of my sexual pleasure.” That’s a weird view of a whistle… and a weird stretch to the other side of your “spectrum”. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/364 "2009-08-25T15:26:29Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > That’s a weird view of a whistle… and a weird stretch to the other side of your “spectrum”. So what do you think a whistle means? You don’t think it’s saying “you’re hot”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I like the way you look, sexually”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I would enjoy having sex with you”? You don’t think that the whistler expects the woman to feel grateful that he is sexually attracted to her? You don’t think the whistler doesn’t care whether or not the woman wants to be viewed as a sexual object, that if he knew that she wouldn’t like it, that he’d just stop? ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/365 "2009-08-25T15:28:06Z")
Can we agree: - When a woman says she is regularly harassed on the street, that does not mean she is saying all women are regularly harassed on the street - When a women says she is not regularly harassed, that doesn’t mean that no woman is ever, or has ever been, regularly harassed - When a woman says that simply ignoring harassment is an effective deterrent in her environment/experience, that does not mean it is an effective deterrent in all environments/experiences ? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/366 "2009-08-25T15:30:59Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A whistle says, “I am getting sexual pleasure from looking at you, and I would like to get more sexual pleasure from having intercourse with you. I do not care whether or not you have any desire to serve as the object of my sexual pleasure. You should be gratified and honored that you are an object of my sexual pleasure.” Ooookaaaaaaaay. When someone says “Nice purse” to you, do you assume they mean to steal it? Or do you assume they mean “Oooh, pretty!” You really give these guys way too much credit, I think. Perhaps you could relax if you stopped attributing diabolical motives to complete strangers. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/367 "2009-08-25T15:38:38Z")
I don’t think “I would enjoy sex with you” is _necessarily_ a diabolical motive. Like, if the friend said, “Nice purse!”, they could ask where you got it, so that they could get another one. They might want to possess it, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to steal it from you. Similarly, if a boyfriend, with whom you have already established that “I would enjoy sex with you” is mutual, whistles at you as you’re (say) bending over to clear your closet floor, that’s different than someone on the street you don’t know. Communicating “I would like to have sex with you” is appropriate in an established sexual relationship, but not from a stranger in public. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/368 "2009-08-25T15:50:01Z")
Inappropriate does not equal threatening. > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > So what do you think a whistle means? You don’t think it’s saying “you’re hot”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I like the way you look, sexually”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I would enjoy having sex with you”? You don’t think that the whistler expects the woman to feel grateful that he is sexually attracted to her? You don’t think the whistler doesn’t care whether or not the woman wants to be viewed as a sexual object, that if he knew that she wouldn’t like it, that he’d just stop? I don’t think it’s a subject worthy of that much thought. Do you really not realize how much power you give them by treating this as important? Who cares what they think? ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/369 "2009-08-25T16:03:34Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Inappropriate does not equal threatening. To be honest, I think it does when you look at the statistics around sexual assault. I think **CrazyCatLady** put it well: > [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > What the “no big deal” crowd doesn’t seem to get is it’s not the whistles or the comments or the crotch-grabbing themselves that are scary. What’s scary is that you’re dealing with someone who obviously is ignorant or dismissive of certain social norms, and _you don’t know how deep that goes._ When you’re dealing with, say, two guys around fifty who either don’t know or care that it’s not appropriate to ask a teenage girl if she wants to get married for about 15 ::crane neck and stare at ass:: no, 20, minutes–well, who knows what else they don’t know or care is inappropriate? If they think that’s okay, do they also think it’s okay to grab your boobs or butt? Try to do something even worse? _You have no way of knowing._ Clarifying: I don’t mean to say that every time a man harasses me in public I assume he is about to assault me, but obviously the best outcome would be for street harassment not to occur at all, to anyone. I think that’s the real question: how do we make that happen? Ignoring it doesn’t make it stop, because it’s already taken place. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/370 "2009-08-25T17:07:34Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A whistle says, “I am getting sexual pleasure from looking at you, and I would like to get more sexual pleasure from having intercourse with you. I do not care whether or not you have any desire to serve as the object of my sexual pleasure. You should be gratified and honored that you are an object of my sexual pleasure.” I can’t whistle, but if I could and ever felt the urge to whistle at a woman I didn’t know it would most likely mean “I find you attractive and seeing you has brightened my day.” Maybe I’m strange, but I don’t feel what appears to be the assumed male urge to have sex with every member of the opposite sex that I see. Maybe I should get myself checked out. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/371 "2009-08-25T17:24:53Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So what do you think a whistle means? You don’t think it’s saying “you’re hot”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I like the way you look, sexually”? You don’t think “you’re hot” means “I would enjoy having sex with you”? You don’t think that the whistler expects the woman to feel grateful that he is sexually attracted to her? You don’t think the whistler doesn’t care whether or not the woman wants to be viewed as a sexual object, that if he knew that she wouldn’t like it, that he’d just stop? Well, whenever I’ve been whistled at, I just see it as, “I think you’re sexy” or whatever. I don’t really think about all the other baggage attached to it. And I certainly don’t think of any similarities to rape. If a guy didn’t whistle but rather smiled or winked or stared, would that be as weird? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/372 "2009-08-25T17:25:25Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I can’t whistle, but if I could and ever felt the urge to whistle at a woman I didn’t know it would most likely mean “I find you attractive and seeing you has brightened my day.” Exactly. Much in the same way that if I approach a woman I like, my thoughts are not “I want to defile you in the most humiliating way”, it’s more like “Your looks intrigue me and I want to find out if you have a personality that meshes with mine.” Assuming that most guys are thinking the former must be a pretty sad way to live. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/373 "2009-08-25T17:27:49Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > Somehow I don’t believe that not being afraid of strangers makes us more at risk for assault. I’m utterly lax about personal and home security and have never been mugged or assaulted or anything like it. Well, I don’t think so either but I posted this: > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Actually I remember walking down the street one weekend night and some guys calling out something to me and I stopped and started talking to them and went with them to some bar where they bought me a couple of drinks. Not the smartest thing in the world, but I suppose there’s always that one in a million. > > I’m not sure if that counts as a catcall, though. There was also another time when some guy stopped me (outside a bar) and I ended up drinking with him and his friend. Sometimes I get the feeling that in actions, I’m the kind of woman that other feminists really despise… And got this in response: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Um, yeah, yeah it was really fucking _stupid_. :eek: Not to mention really, REALLY fucked up. Are you trying to get yourself killed? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/374 "2009-08-25T17:34:27Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I can’t whistle, but if I could and ever felt the urge to whistle at a woman I didn’t know it would most likely mean “I find you attractive and seeing you has brightened my day.” Maybe I’m strange, but I don’t feel what appears to be the assumed male urge to have sex with every member of the opposite sex that I see. Maybe I should get myself checked out. Hmm. When a guy whistles at me, I take it as, “I’m a guy, and I whistle at things in skirts.” I’ve never taken it as commentary on any physical attractiveness of mine. But let’s say I start… then what? Why is whistling an appropriate and inoffensive way to communicate with human beings? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/375 "2009-08-25T17:42:39Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Hmm. When a guy whistles at me, I take it as, “I’m a guy, and I whistle at things in skirts.” I’ve never taken it as commentary on any physical attractiveness of mine. Congratulations, you’ve managed to demean \*both \*sexes there. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/376 "2009-08-25T17:51:46Z")
Missed the edit window… You know, I suppose I \*could \*choose to feel threatened or violated or demeaned or oppressed every time a guy whistles at me, but it seems like a depressing and exhausting way to live. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/377 "2009-08-25T17:56:19Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Hmm. When a guy whistles at me, I take it as, “I’m a guy, and I whistle at things in skirts.” I’ve never taken it as commentary on any physical attractiveness of mine. But let’s say I start… then what? Why is whistling an appropriate and inoffensive way to communicate with human beings? 😕 Why is it not? You never communicated with family or friends through whistling? Seriously? I’m confused as to why someone would consider whistling offensive. Obviously, I must’ve been raised different than y’all. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/378 "2009-08-25T17:57:35Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Congratulations, you’ve managed to demean \*both \*sexes there. Ha ha! Do I get a prize? No, seriously, you don’t think there’s anything sexist about whistling at women on the street? Even if they think I’m pretty, what happened to “Hello”? I always figured the guys who used actual words with me were the ones who thought I was pretty, and the ones who whistled were just jerks. They don’t whistle at other men like this to get their attention. And I don’t feel threatened by whistles, I feel threatened by threats. I just think if a guy thinks I’m lovely, or wants to know if I read the same books as he does, maybe he should ask me like a human being, and not whistle like he’s trying to get Fido’s attention. Edit: **Karl** , no. I think I whistled for a taxi once. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/379 "2009-08-25T18:13:08Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Ha ha! Do I get a prize? No, seriously, you don’t think there’s anything sexist about whistling at women on the street? Even if they think I’m pretty, what happened to “Hello”? I always figured the guys who used actual words with me were the ones who thought I was pretty, and the ones who whistled were just jerks. I think that the ones who whistle think you’re pretty, but just don’t have the guts to say hello. Or have no idea what to say. Or figure that they don’t stand a chance with you, but have to try SOMETHING. At least the cat call guys are using words. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/380 "2009-08-25T18:19:53Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > You know, I suppose I \*could \*choose to feel threatened or violated or demeaned or oppressed every time a guy whistles at me, but it seems like a depressing and exhausting way to live. Just because I don’t choose to feel threatened by something coded doesn’t mean it isn’t an implicit threat. Also, tdn, I somehow sincerely doubt that street harassers are motivated by shyness, which you seem to be implying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=20)