# Women (over)react to catcalling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120 "2009-08-20T20:36:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/561 "2009-08-26T19:20:44Z")
Missed the edit limit, but for data point: I live in Shoreditch (east London); I get whistles/“Niiiiiiiiice”/“Hey beautiful!” comments 3-4 times a week, “I’d like to suck on those”/“Nice tits”/“Want to fuck?” probably once every 7-10 days, and someone “brushing” against me, following me very closely or otherwise physically invading my space and touching me about once a month. I mostly ignore it like the rest of the urban white noise, and tell the more explicit harassers to fuck off, but it is irritating. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/562 "2009-08-26T19:22:51Z")
> [@Rack-a-Bones](#): > > Seriously? Where do you live/work again? I’m fully on your side and agree this boorish behavior exists and it sucks, but why does it happen to you 100 times more often than the other women posting on this board? I’m not trying to be a dick, I genuinely want to know. I didn’t go back and read the (egads!) previous 12 pages but IIRC the average for the women posting was from between a few times a month to a few times a year. Few times a year? For catcalling and bothering of any kind? I’d say the super-hyper-creepy shit happens very rarely, but light-to-moderate pestering is fairly regular. I’m in downtown Minneapolis and spend 90% of my time here. I thought Midwesterners were supposed to be nice! But no, it was maybe 9:30pm (maybe I shouldn’t have been bold enough to walk outside at night alone) and some dude was riding his bike, turned left, then rode up on the sidewalk alongside me and said “Nice.” Nice? Oh, I’m so glad you approve of the way I’ve groomed myself! Because I don’t respond to that type of shit, I ignored him, but he _kept on_. “Hey, I’m talking to you.” Does this twat think I’m not responding because I’m hard of hearing? I can assure you, I am not, and even deaf women don’t like being followed. Buy yeah, I’m a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real. You know, let’s just say he walked up to me and said, “Hello miss,” and I still ignored him. Let’s pretend the guy is being perfectly nice, but I hate strangers so much that I refuse to talk to him. Why does he start following me again? If I ever politely asked someone for directions to the freeway and was ignored, I’d do no more than think to myself, Yeesh, how rude. I would never imagine to follow the person, or call him a bitch. FTR, pestering, harassing, and harassing the shit out of all happened to me (and I noticed it happening to other women) WAY more when I lived in LA than it does here. LA is frickin’ ridiculous. Ever wonder why every woman in that town is equipped with absurdly large, face-obscuring sunshades and an iPod? We’re trying to hide. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/563 "2009-08-26T19:41:29Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > But hell, sometimes stuff makes me mad, even things I can’t control. Sue me. Bang…right there. You’ve lost your control, even when you had it by the balls, so to speak. From: [Tactics for Confronting Street Harassers](http://hkearl.com/thesis/tactics.htm): > [@](#): > > Tactics suggested by Marty Langelan in Back Off!, the UK Anti-Street Harassment Web site and the Rogers Park Young Women’s Action Team are good examples of tactics that can work: > > NOTE: Only practice these tactics in situations where you feel safe to do so. If you feel unsafe, leave the harasser as quickly as possible. > > 1. Name the behavior > For example, “Do not whistle at me, that is harassment,” “Do not touch my butt, that is sexual harassment” > > 2. Identify the perpetrator > “Man in the yellow shirt, stop touching me.” > > 3. Use strong body language > Look the harasser in the eye, speak in a strong, clear voice. > > 4. Do not apologize or ask a question, be firm and assertive. > Don’t say, ‘Excuse me…’ ‘I’m sorry, but…’ ‘Please…’ but rather say directly, “Stop doing X” > > 5. Do not get into a dialogue with the harasser, reason with them or answer their questions. Repeat your statement or leave. > > \*\*6. Do not swear or lose your temper > This type of reaction is the most likely to make the harasser respond with anger and violence and it also can make you seem like the one who is crazy or wrong when the harassment happens among a group of people but no one sees what the harasser did to you. \*\* [Strategies for Combating Street Harassment](http://hkearl.com/thesis/strategies.htm) from same site. This is the kind of change I speak of if you willingly pursue for yourself. This came from a [thesis](http://hkearl.com/thesis/index.htm) by Holly Kearl; and her main [website.](http://www.stopstreetharassment.com/index.htm) This is your notice of suit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/564 "2009-08-26T19:41:36Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I said it before, and I’ll say it again–you wouldn’t have the cast-iron testicles necessary to advance such an opinion if the subject were racial harassment, and neither would anyone else. But when the subject turns from “driving while black” to “existing while female” it somehow suddenly stops being an issue of the harasser being a stone-cold shitstain and becomes an issue of the harassee not being empowered enough. What’s up with that horseshit, exactly? I’ll also note that there is plenty of intersection between racism and street harassment (further supporting the idea that these guys aren’t paying genuine compliments, they’re aiming to degrade). [Here’s](http://streetharassment.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/anti-black-woman-harasser-in-arlington/) a nice little story that includes the quote > [@](#): > > “That’s why I didn’t respond to you in the first place,” I snapped. “Men like you have no respect for women. I don’t know you, and don’t want to talk to strange men.” > > I spoke in a calm manner, I didn’t curse, so I don’t know why the hell he went from 0 to 60. > > He got in my face, started thumping his chest, and approached me as if I were someone his own size. > > “What you say to me? What you say? Huh, huh? Say it again, bitch, say it again! Fuck you bitch! Take my picture, bitch! That’s right, bitch!” > > I started walking away, and he followed me. > > “Fuck you, bitch! I HATE BLACK WOMEN!” he ranted. “I’m tired of black women! Black women ain’t shit! Black women are ugly! I don’t give a damn about BLACK WOMEN! Stupid bitch!” It’s hard to pinpoint why some women get targeted more than others, and it makes more sense to look at the harassers (since it’s not like they’re targeting a single woman apiece). Who are they angry at? Who do they feel they are more or less powerful than? Are they immigrants to a white community angry at white men but too afraid to target them with their anger? Divorced men who can’t handle women their own age and have to target teens? Are they white guys who’ve lost their jobs and have it out for women and ethnic minorities? Men of any ethnicity who are confined to menial labor and angry at businesswomen? Men who can’t get a date? Men who can’t get a date with certain kinds of women? Whatever the case, the least people can do is agree that street harassment is shameful. Someone (male) up thread mentioned being pressured into it and I understand that, which makes it even more important to consider it pathetic and convey this message to male friends and relatives. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/565 "2009-08-26T19:42:30Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Buy yeah, I’m a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real. This is a very telling statement. I bet you are the only person here who thinks you’re “a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real.” This, in addition to your other posts in this thread (read the whole thing), leads me to believe the problem really does begin with you. I’m not blaming the victim, I’m blaming you. You’re playing the victim. Different thing. And no, I don’t think you’re a “bitch”. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/566 "2009-08-26T19:46:47Z")
Yeticus, I appreciate you taking the time to look it up, and I do think that it is important to get street harassers to realize that their behavior is not acceptable. However, the tactics described there don’t work. _To them_, there is no appreciable difference between “Stop doing that” and “Back the fuck off, asshole!” They are both taken a confrontational challenge. Also, really, any engagement is taken as a positive sign because hey, he got your attention, right? Speaking from experience, ignoring it and getting away from him (or snapping a _quick_ “Back off!” over your shoulder while you get away from him) is the best way to deal with it on the spot. _edit_ Holy shit, Jimmy Joe Meager, whoa there. There is no question that MeanOldLady was harassed. That didn’t begin with her. How she chooses to deal with that abuse is in no way the cause of it. And I’m pretty sure she meant that the guy hassling her thought she was a bitch, or even called her one. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/567 "2009-08-26T19:49:52Z")
Thanks, Yeticus. I’ve tried some of those strategies with “closer harrassment,” say, with someone who’s within easy speaking distance and there are other people around (without awful results, but I was on the move), but I haven’t tried it with anyone farther away, usually because I’m trying to get out of there. Worth trying, though, I’m not sure it would work with someone who wasn’t in a potentially embarrassing situation. Of course, it’s largely academic since I moved to the suburbs, but I’ll keep it in mind in the future. /edit: context! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/568 "2009-08-26T19:52:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Someone (male) up thread mentioned being pressured into it and I understand that, which makes it even more important to consider it pathetic and convey this message to male friends and relatives. That was me. To be clear, I felt pressured into joining in, but I never did actually join in. I suppose I could have said “You guys need to stop, you’re acting like creeps.” But when the main guy doing it controls your pay for the next week, that makes it difficult. And back in those days, I never really spoke up to people about stuff I didn’t like. **Yeticus** , good find! I hope some people find it useful. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/569 "2009-08-26T20:01:09Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > _edit_ Holy shit, Jimmy Joe Meager, whoa there. There is no question that MeanOldLady was harassed. That didn’t begin with her. How she chooses to deal with that abuse is in no way the cause of it. > > And I’m pretty sure she meant that the guy hassling her thought she was a bitch, or even called her one. Sorry, maybe that came out harsher than intended. I never questioned she was harassed. I never questioned how she chose to deal with it (frankly, I agreed with her response and support her decision to do so). What I questioned was her self-assessment that she was a “bitch” for reacting as she did. She seems to have the “perpetual victim” thing going on, and this is part of it. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/570 "2009-08-26T20:01:54Z")
That’s what I’m talking about, tdn! I honestly think that social pressure from wiser men is what’s going to make the biggest difference to the kind of guy that does it. I’m glad you feel more confident about speaking up to them now. 🙂 JJM, I still read that as saying, “But yeah, [now this guy thinks that] I’m a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real [and I know this because he is following me down the street and telling me he thinks so].” I think she’s talking about the misogyny these guys often display, not saying that she actually thinks of herself as a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/571 "2009-08-26T20:02:58Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Bang…right there. You’ve lost your control, even when you had it by the balls, so to speak. > > From: [Tactics for Confronting Street Harassers](http://hkearl.com/thesis/tactics.htm): > > [Strategies for Combating Street Harassment](http://hkearl.com/thesis/strategies.htm) from same site. This is the kind of change I speak of if you willingly pursue for yourself. > > This came from a [thesis](http://hkearl.com/thesis/index.htm) by Holly Kearl; and her main [website.](http://www.stopstreetharassment.com/index.htm) > > This is your notice of suit. 😉 Ya know, in my experiences, some of this works, and some of this does not. I’ve listed some of the worst occurrences of harassment in this thread because a lot of us have hijacked this thread to vent about it. It is not uncommon for me to be left alone in while public, and when bothered, it is not uncommon for me to say something like, “Stop bothering me” as opposed to “Fuck you.” Sometimes they stop, sometimes they don’t. If we’re talking about getting each particular male to stop what he is doing, it depends. Sometimes simply ignoring is enough. Sometimes asking him to stop is enough. Sometimes flipping the bird is enough. Sometimes, each of these things will only lead to escalation. But this kind of crap shouldn’t even happen to begin with. We should not be subject to this kind of bologna simply because we’re women. I do like that website though. This is key: > [@](#): > > Over and over, women are blamed for men’s behavior because of the way they look or dress. Some men (and women) claim women like it and are asking for the attention (for examples, see comment postings on stories like this one and this one). Just because a woman is in public does not mean she wants to be commented on or touched by strangers. If a man can’t keep from yelling disrespectful comments or keep his hands to himself when he sees a woman in public, he shouldn’t be allowed to be public. The problem is HIM not HER. > [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > This is a very telling statement. > > I bet you are the only person here who thinks you’re “a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real.” > > This, in addition to your other posts in this thread (read the whole thing), leads me to believe the problem really does begin with you. I’m not blaming the victim, I’m blaming you. You’re playing the victim. Different thing. > > And no, I don’t think you’re a “bitch”. Uhm, I’m not even sure how to respond to this. I’m glad to see you don’t think I’m a bitch, I don’t either (I was being sarcastic with the “I’m a bitch” remark), but apparently that guy does because he said so. Or maybe he was just trying to hurt my feelings, I don’t know. My feelings don’t get hurt by random idiots, anyway, so if that was his objective, FAIL. But this is not about me. Remove me from this altogether. If no man ever whistled or screamed anything from a car window at me again, well, that would be nice really, but if they still continued this type of behavior toward every other woman, I’d still find myself bothered. I find it to be reprehensible behavior, and I find it to be sexist. If I’m playing a victim because I want this shit to stop for all women without them having to behave or dress differently (which won’t stop it), then uhh, yeah, I’m out of words. ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/572 "2009-08-26T20:12:23Z")
[I posted a poll thread over in IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529580). The reports of this being such a prevalant thing is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/573 "2009-08-26T20:35:48Z")
Thanks for that. We don’t get enough disturbing threads around here! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/574 "2009-08-26T20:42:39Z")
[quote=“MeanOldLady, post:505, topic:507120”] Pipe down, and read the thread before commenting. Nobody’s a killer fox, nobody’s thin-skinned. I don’t like being sexually harassed, and people finding it to be okay. Fuck me running. Strength in men Beauty in women Men lie to women to get sex Women lie to men to get babies Women own sex Their power lies between their thighs Ask yourself these questions: 1. Why do women wear lipstick and make-up? 2. Why do women wear high heels, the worst thing you can do to your spine, knees and ankles? If a statement about sex is true, it can’t be sexist…why? because it’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/575 "2009-08-26T20:45:40Z")
I’m probably already way behind on the thread, sorry. Actual work kept coming up in the middle of replying to it (imagine that). > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > I’m still trying to think of an actual legitimate reason for someone (who was verbally “attacked”) to physically attack the verbalizing offender. IIRC, the only people who expressed admiration for the women were doing so hyperbolically. > [@mswas](#): > > Trust me, a guy is treating you like an object just as often buying a drink as whistling. He may be viewing me as an object, but he is treating me as a person. > [@](#): > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem is yours? Some women enjoy the attention. Yeah, and I’m sure some women enjoy it when they get paid more for wearing skirts to work. Doesn’t make it right. > [@raindrop](#): > > Then somehow the guy goes further to conclude that _he_ decides for all women. First he decides the woman to whom he’s giving his attention doesn’t get to vote “no,” and then he decides she should be punished for being so arrogant as to vote in a way that she isn’t allowed. Exactly. There are two basic reactions to whistling/cat-calling/etc.: either the woman will be flattered or she will be offended. The man has decided that the “offended” women either don’t exist or don’t matter: his desire to publicly observe what he finds to be attractive overrides her desire to be treated like a person. > [@tdn](#): > > Maybe I should clarify. He doesn’t whistle at complete strangers on the street. Well then why the hell are you even bringing it up? We’ve already established that the problem is strangers. Not friends or family. Everyone knows (at least, I thought everyone knew) that etiquette changes drastically for in-groups versus out-groups. > [@tdn](#): > > When **Freudian Slit** and **DianaG** talk about this, I get a strong sense that they are very centered and confident, and see things from a frame of strength. When some others of you talk about it, the automatic response (deeper than “those guys are jerks”) is the assumption that they’re trying to control you, humiliate you, or as you just said, see you as less than an equal. > > One has to wonder if that’s the way you see yourselves. Do you often feel less than equal? Not to armchair psychologize or anything, but I’m seeing a definite pattern of “pity me the poor victim” in a lot of posts here. So women who ignore or are flattered by public attention to their physical attractiveness from strangers are confident, while women who are offended by it are shy and have self-confidence issues. Uh… huh. I am six feet tall. I used to have a mohawk. I walk with confidence. I’m often mistaken for a man on message boards. I’ve often been accused of being a lesbian because I’m not a mousy girl. You know when I was flattered by being catcalled? When I was twelve and still had self-image issues. > [@tdn](#): > > If you can get what you want in the board room, why not on the street? I can get what I want in a professional setting because **there is accountability**. If a stranger at my job, whether a coworker or a client, comes up and tells me he wants to fuck me, I can go to HR and report him, and get him fired, or at least in a shitload of trouble. Guy on the street? No accountability. None. Which, as I keep saying, is exactly the problem. Ignoring it encourages it, and violence is an overreaction. > [@mswas](#): > > It’s not the whistling that is the problem, it’s the possibility of negative attention that follows being rebuffed. What you all are doing is judging every man who whistles at a woman by the criteria of the stalker, assuming the worst case scenario. No, the whistling is a problem, too, just not as big a problem as the following. > [@Tymp](#): > > He knows that there are no consequences for his actions, no matter the disposition of his target. Exactly. > [@mswas](#): > > If something offends some people and makes other people feel good, what criteria should we use to eliminate it from the social lexicon? How do we know when it is something that is not ok even though some people appreciate it? > > It seems to me that some people are of the view that if it offends some people that the opinions of the offended overrule the opinions of those who take it as a compliment. Yes, they do, when they have a legitimate reason to be offended. There’s a great quote from Miss Manners herself that I wish I could put my finger on right now. The jist of it is this: if you are doing something to try to be polite, and people are offended by it, you’re not really being polite if you continue doing it even after you know it offends, because you’re considering your feeling good about doing XYZ to be more important than their actual reaction to it. > [@jakesteele](#): > > and women have to put up with sometimes unwanted sexual interest. It’s called life. Uh, no, it’s called sexism. People shouldn’t \*\*have \*\*to put up with harassment. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’m saying it’s just as fucked up for me to call you conceited or whatever for you attitude, as it is for you to say I have low self confidence for mine. But if you’re confident already, why would some random dick on the street expressing that he thinks your hot give you a boost? > [@tdn](#): > > Why in the holy fuck are you still calling it appeasement?!? Jesus! Do you put up an umbrella to appease the rain? Do you turn on your air conditioning to appease the heat? Did the US enter WWII to appease the Germans? Rain is not a conscious actor. Heat is not a conscious actor. The equivalent of entering WWII in this situation would presumably be to punch the fuck out of the guy. Your analogy blows. > [@DianaG](#): > > I’m pretty sure that blacks brought change about by modifying their behavior. If they’d all been as hopeless and complacent as you are, they’d still be sitting in the back of the bus. Aren’t you the one who \*\*ignores \*\*whistling and catcalls? > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > I see a few of you are stuck on the notion that the “other person” needs to change while you don’t have to, and your anger shows when it (predictably) doesn’t happen. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you trying to suggest that the harasser and harasee both need to change? Because if so, that’s seriously fucked up. > [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > This is a very telling statement. > > I bet you are the only person here who thinks you’re “a bitch for asking this douche if he were for real.” Does anybody read the entire thread anymore, or do we all just come in late, read two posts, and assume we know what’s going on? If you’d been paying the least bit of attention, you’d realize the \*\*MOL \*\*is referring to her experience of \*\*being called \*\*a bitch when she confronts the men who harass her, not that she views herself as one for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/576 "2009-08-26T20:48:23Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > Strength in men > Beauty in women > > [snip] > > If a statement about sex is true, it can’t be sexist…why? because it’s the truth. What a bunch of generalized bullshit. MEN ARE FROM MARS WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS AMIRITE ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/577 "2009-08-26T20:51:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But if you’re confident already, why would some random dick on the street expressing that he thinks your hot give you a boost? Because I’m not basing my entire out look on what that one guy says. It’s just a confirmation of what I already know. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/578 "2009-08-26T20:53:37Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > Ask yourself these questions: > > 1. Why do women wear lipstick and make-up? > 2. Why do women wear high heels, the worst thing you can do to your spine, knees and ankles? > > If a statement about sex is true, it can’t be sexist…why? because it’s the truth. I don’t know, ask them. Okay, I’m lying. I do wear lip gloss, but because it stops my lips from being chapped. Doesn’t hurt that it’s shiny. As for the rest of your post, I’m going to ignore it because it’s fucking stupid. **Shot From Guns** , everything you said in that long, multi-quoted post was 100% awesome. > [@](#): > > So women who ignore or are flattered by public attention to their physical attractiveness from strangers are confident, while women who are offended by it are shy and have self-confidence issues. Uh… huh. > > I am six feet tall. I used to have a mohawk. I walk with confidence. I’m often mistaken for a man on message boards. I’ve often been accused of being a lesbian because I’m not a mousy girl. You know when I was flattered by being catcalled? When I was twelve and still had self-image issues. A+ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/579 "2009-08-26T20:56:14Z")
_whpshhhh_ ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/580 "2009-08-26T22:08:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you trying to suggest that the harasser and harasee both need to change? Because if so, that’s seriously fucked up. The changes I speak of are: The harasser needs to change the behavior from hostile/aggressive to neutral, and the harassee needs to change from anger (or passivity) to neutral-[assertive](http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200402/assertiveness-not-aggressiveness). Not fucked up at all, but more normalized behavior. The assertive person usually will not appear to be an easy target for harassers. Some will attempt once, but will usually stop harassing the person repeated times. The more times the harassee practices her assertiveness, the more confident she becomes in standing up to harassers. Her actions will eventually give rise to changes in the harasser’s behavior; instead of a downspiral of behaviors and reactions that are aggressive, the chance for an upspiral of assertiveness and respect would take place. SO…who wants change? The women want the change. But how can they change the men who harass? Those men won’t/can’t/don’t know how to change unless they seek a more positive response from the women. So, women must ASSERT their need for respect. The site I gave earlier shows examples of women asserting themselves to improve the situation they face. THAT is the change I am speaking of…laws are fine, but they don’t eliminate every wrong. Sexual harassment laws aren’t the cure all unless women assert their need for equal treatment; then there will be a day that she can walk down the street without fear or trepidation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=30)