# Women (over)react to catcalling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120 "2009-08-20T20:36:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/601 "2009-08-27T22:20:54Z")
To me, all that means is “It’s okay to do it if you’re a female to males but not if you’re a male to a female”. ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/602 "2009-08-27T22:24:01Z")
No, it’s not okay. And we’re not praising them. The consensus is that they were idiots who committed a crime and should be punished. Once we had that consensus, we moved on to the behavior they were supposedly against, and how it affects lives and attitudes in general. Keep up, please. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/603 "2009-08-27T22:34:58Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > That doesn’t cut it for me. It doesn’t even have anything to do with what I asked, for one, but more on that later. > For two, just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. > > For three, I’m not talking about “Screaming at them”, “following them in their cars”, “demanding their phone numbers”, “name-calling when ignored or rebuffed”, or “Making threats” of any kind. Like I just said, I don’t know where you got any of that or what it has to do with what I asked. > From the OP article, I don’t see or know how you could know that was what the group of guys did either, so I have no idea why you’re giving gross assumptions. > > [snipped white space] > > So I’ll state it again…if I have, in a single case scenerio such as the OP was about–WITHOUT piling on all the weight of OH THE HUGE MANATEE OF ALL THE VICTIMIZED WOMEN IN THE WORLD BY CATCALLS!!–Where I’m whistled at and catcalled a bit (which is all the OP was about)…I have the right to chase down a woman (or man, or kid) and beat the hell out of them while my friends hold them? > A simple yes or no would suffice. > If yes, that’s all I wanted to know. > If no, why is it okay that these girls did it, in your mind? Enough that you’re praising them? **MOL** ’s “This” referred to the following by **StaudtCJ** , which **MOL** was adopting: > [@](#): > > No, it is not ok to physically assault someone who is just yelling across the street or whatever. Ever. It’s also scary, and not good behavior on the part of the cat-caller. > > What the drunk asshole females did the the innocent guy is contemptible, and should be punished by the law. It should not be emulated. In other words, a simple no. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/604 "2009-08-28T00:18:22Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > These are all good things, Yeticus Rex. I use most of them, when there are other people around. Calling someone out by appearance, loudly, for example, identifies him and the behavior to everyone around him, and provides a shame factor. When I am not around others, I get out of there as fast as possible. I’m glad that you’re doing your part. You do not need to change. > [@](#): > > The thing is, the change has to come from both sides. Men who catcall need to be told by OTHER MEN that it’s not ok, and they need to be taken to task in assertive ways by women who don’t tolerate it. Until men notice it and take men to task for it as well, nothing is going to happen. It requires both sides of that coin. Some men DO while others stand by…I understand that. This thread alone has made the issue more important to me, and I will become one of those men who will call out other men who catcall/harass women. Again, that’s the change I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/605 "2009-08-28T00:24:35Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > How am I supposed to “be assertive” at a guy who’s hollering at me from a car? Turn around, hotwire one parked next to me, and chase after him, hoping to catch him at a stoplight? Um, no…that just makes you look like a crazy bitch.😉 > [@](#): > > A lot of harassers just go after more-or-less random women on the street–it’s not anyone they know, and probably not anyone they’d recognize if they harassed her a second time. Your suggestion might work for dealing with a pattern of harassment from a specific person with whom one interacts on a regular basis, but it doesn’t seem terribly feasible for dealing with random strangers whom you don’t recognize and who won’t recognize you again. And, as \*\*MOL \*\*has observed, the reaction to \*\*any \*\*attempt to assert your right to be treated like a person is frequently that you’re a bitch with an attitude: doesn’t matter if you’re angry or calmly assertive–you can’t appreciate why it’s so amazing to be looked at like a piece of meat, so something must be wrong with you. And if more “random” women were neutral-assertive, the harasser would start seeing a pattern of intolerance towards his behavior; that is why women must become assertive. Reduce the odds of finding passive women while increasing the odds of assertive women. If the odds are bad of finding passive women to harass…the game is not worth playing. ---
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/606 "2009-08-28T04:16:15Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > And despite all the swear words and hyperbolic threats. Thanks. 🙂 And if that sounded snarky (as a lot of things I say do), I’m being serious. Hey, you don’t seem at all snarky to me. Just very clear, bold, and honest, which I just find refreshing. And also sarcastically witty, which I happen to love.🙂 > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I’ll git you. And your little dog too! But this is obviously something only a **MeanOldLady** would say.:dubious: 😉 > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > Crap, I just remembered which thread this is. Don’t beat me up! > > That costs extra. 😃 Well then, just move the hell over. [sharply elbows **Shot From Guns** so she staggers sideways, then **raindrop** steps up into her spot] Hey, after decades of abuse I’m more than willing to offer a freebie. 😃 > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Um, no…that just makes you look like a crazy bitch.😉 Oh, but I’ve occasionally used the look-like-a-crazy-bitch tactic with lots of success. Sometimes it’s very satisfying when a guy who starts off harassing me, acting very nutty, and aggressively threatening, then he gets scared and backs off because “wow, that bitch is crazy!” The trick is to not care what any other people think of me, and to be willing to act even crazier than he is. Sometimes I truly don’t mind being the “crazy bitch” if it means he will leave me alone. When I’m in just the right mood, I can pull it off with ease. Also, keep in mind this only works with certain types of harassers. And don’t try this at home. It could get messy.:dubious: > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > And if more “random” women were neutral-assertive, the harasser would start seeing a pattern of intolerance towards his behavior; that is why women must become assertive. I do get your point but this attitude still bugs me. I have to focus and very work hard to get dudes to leave me alone. I have to put up my antenna, pay attention in a state of heightened-awareness, and make lightning quick assessments on what method will likely work best with each situation. Something that defuses one situation will just escalate another. It’s very difficult to sort all of that out. We really shouldn’t have to work that hard just to go out in public. I happen to have a naturally assertive aspect to my personality, so I can pull on that when needed. But I know women who can’t do what I do; they are wired differently and just don’t have the tools. Some days I’m not up to the task either. But that doesn’t mean any of us are ever slacking. Some women step up to challenge, and some don’t. I just view either of those options as equally acceptable responses. And I’m really okay with those women who can’t or don’t want to challenge the abusers. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/607 "2009-08-28T11:43:23Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > No, it’s not okay. And we’re not praising them. The consensus is that they were idiots who committed a crime and should be punished. Once we had that consensus, we moved on to the behavior they were supposedly against, and how it affects lives and attitudes in general. Keep up, please. I’m aware of this..I read the whole thread before posting, remember? 🙂 I just hadn’t seen the question I asked being answered _straight-forwardly_ yet. I have now. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/608 "2009-08-28T13:17:09Z")
So can all the clueless men in this thread who accused of us seeing “bogeymen,” and whimpering every time we were asked for directions, as if we were making this all up, please read the other thread, then apologize for calling us liars? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/609 "2009-08-28T14:19:15Z")
Sure, I’ll apologize. I will say in my defense that I’ve been plumbing my memory and can only recall seeing two instances of “catcalling”: 1. 2003, Cleveland, OH. I had just parked my car and was making my way into the library downtown. A shabbily-dressed fellow on a bicycle rode by and yelled after a well-dressed woman (around 40): “Hey, saleslady! You got a big ass!” These were the first words I ever heard spoken in the city of Cleveland. You can read into that what you want. 2. 2007, St. Patrick’s Day, Omaha, NE. Some kid (around 21) was miming copping a feel on young ladies as they walked by. To one particularly attractive maiden, he vocalized: “Hey, baby.” She spun around and read him the riot act. Major pwnage, as the kids say. So, thank you for opening up a world to which I had only been afforded small glimpses. It is interesting that the only examples of this apparent epiphenomenon that I’ve witnessed were by an apparently mentally ill fellow in Cleveland and a drunken kid on St. Patrick’s Day. YMMV, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/610 "2009-08-28T14:31:08Z")
Heh, I wasn’t even expecting to get an apology, but figured I’d ask because it couldn’t hurt. I’m not even sure I remember you being one of the oblivious men in this thread, **stu** , and I’m sure as hell not going to read through it again, but I’ll take the apology anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/611 "2009-08-28T14:52:05Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > To me, all that means is “It’s okay to do it if you’re a female to males but not if you’re a male to a female”. Well, so what? I can’t imagine any scenario under which I’d find catcalls from women threatening\*, and I think the same would hold true for nearly all men. \*Maybe if they had guns. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/612 "2009-08-28T14:54:31Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > To me, all that means is “It’s okay to do it if you’re a female to males but not if you’re a male to a female”. Do you acknowledge that there are some things that become more of a problem through repetition? That a pattern of behavior, one that suggests an underlying attitude causing that pattern, can be more dangerous than isolated incidents? Do you acknowledge that, on average, it’s easier for a man to physically assault a woman than vice versa? Do you acknowledge that it’s easier for a man to rape a woman than vice versa? > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > This thread alone has made the issue more important to me, and I will become one of those men who will call out other men who catcall/harass women. Yay! Good for you. > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Um, no…that just makes you look like a crazy bitch.😉 A reckless one, too, since I can’t drive! 😃 > [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > A shabbily-dressed fellow on a bicycle rode by and yelled after a well-dressed woman (around 40): “Hey, saleslady! You got a big ass!” It is now my goal in life to get my friend’s band to write a song titled, “Hey saleslady! You got a big ass!” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/613 "2009-08-28T15:22:43Z")
At this point in my life I’ve seen some instances of catcalling–not FREQUENT, by any means, but I witness something like it a few times a month (less since I got out of college). My general reaction to it, as a large male, is to verbally or physically interpose in the situation–a “hey, shut yer hole, jerkass!” tends to disperse a lot of these idiots around here. Funnily enough, lately I’ve defended more males from abusive catcalls, due solely to the fact I don’t like seeing polite street preachers verbally abused from cars. ---
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/614 "2009-08-28T15:30:10Z")
defuses = diffuses [ACK! :smack:] [hmm… _defuses_… actually that might work just as well. ;)] * * * I was going to let it pass, but since it has come up again I’d like to point out something about the “asking for directions” thing. C’mon, when the hell do men ever ask for directions? I’ve also been asked the stupidest shit, like “do you have the time?” or “do you have a light?” by men who clearly just use that as an opener. There may be 40 other people around me (including _plenty_ of other men), but the guy will walk past all of them to ask _me_ for the time, or a light. And these questions _ALWAYS_ come from men, not from women. In fact I can’t ever remember a woman asking me if I have a light. Never. And if I do give him the time, why does he keep staring at me, and then tell me I’m pretty, or ask me what my name is? And when I say I don’t have a light, why does the idiot then say “you don’t have a light? what do you mean you don’t have a light?” [gah!] And why the hell would a man ask a strange woman to provide the fire for his cigarette anyway? Ya see, it’s all just a very stupid game. This is not to say that a man shouldn’t ever ask a woman for directions when he genuinely needs directions and thinks she could provide them. I really don’t mind a man innocently asking me for directions,\* because those men who don’t have an agenda give off a very innocent vibe. In fact I like being around men like that, and I hope they’re close by and are paying attention if I get into a tight spot with the other type of man. But those of you who haven’t looked closely at this have no idea what’s really going on, and what we really have to put up every day. \*But don’t ever ask me for a light. I don’t care how innocent you are. Just don’t. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/615 "2009-08-28T16:08:29Z")
> [@raindrop](#): > > defuses = diffuses [ACK! :smack:] No, you had it right the first time. You were talking about [defusing](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defuse) a situation, not [diffusing](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diffuse) something. ---
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/616 "2009-08-28T17:42:59Z")
Ah yes. I was probably thinking of something like “diffuse lighting,” as in the second definition… as in “less concentrated.” But you’re absolutely right, “defuse” is clearly the correct one in this instance. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/617 "2009-08-28T17:47:55Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > A shabbily-dressed fellow on a bicycle rode by and yelled after a well-dressed woman (around 40): “Hey, saleslady! You got a big ass!” These were the first words I ever heard spoken in the city of Cleveland. You can read into that what you want. Well, that’s a surprise. I did not realize the people of Cleveland had progressed from grunting to the spoken word. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/618 "2009-08-28T18:20:54Z")
I slogged thru this whole thing, and this - > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > [Quote=Shot From Guns] > > The whole point of a whistle is to say that you find someone physically attractive. I didn’t say a whistle means “I want to rape you,” I said it means “I want to have sex with you.” Ah. Well, no wonder my dog’s been avoiding eye contact lately. [/quote] made it all worthwhile. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/619 "2009-08-28T18:46:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Heh, I wasn’t even expecting to get an apology, but figured I’d ask because it couldn’t hurt. I’m not even sure I remember you being one of the oblivious men in this thread, **stu** , and I’m sure as hell not going to read through it again, but I’ll take the apology anyway. Thanks, mate. Knowing that you’ve been talking about LA and Minneapolis makes a difference, too. I spoke to a friend of mine the other night about this - apparently it’s night and day between Chicago (very little shouted commentary - mostly along behavioral lines) and Oakland (a great deal more vocal - and explicitly anatomical). For the record, I’ve lived in Omaha(NE), Urbana(IL) and Erie¶. I don’t imagine that any of these are catcalling Meccas - though Erie downtown probably has some potential. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120/620 "2009-08-28T19:03:33Z")
_Desmond said to Molly, “Girl, I like your face.” And Molly said “Fuck off, rapist!” and kicked him in the nuts._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-over-react-to-catcalling/507120.md?page=32)