# Women push for public breastfeeding policy at Starbucks, stage "nurse-in" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378 "2004-08-11T16:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/121 "2004-08-12T16:06:03Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > - I don’t know why I tidied the URLs like that. I think I need help. _snort_ You’re right! You clearly have a personality disorder. Welcome to the club; here’s your membership card! 😉 > [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > In that case, why not just give the baby a pacifier? In that case, why not just give the baby the real thing as opposed to some inferior facsimile? Just saying, is all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/122 "2004-08-12T16:11:08Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > There is a time and place for everything. I don’t mind seeing people in skimpy clothing if I am out clubbing, for example. On the other hand, I don’t think skimpy clothing is appropriate for a place like, say, Starbucks. Current fashions? No, I don’t like them. Those teeny-tiny short skirts that come just an inch past your crotch are not appropriate for many public areas. Same with the ultra-low hip-huggers and bare midriffs. OK for a club or party, but not OK for, say, Starbucks. Just my opinion. So, you’re at Starbucks in the middle of summer, and a couple teenyboppers come in wearing tank tops. A guy in a suit goes over and complains to the store manager about how he can see the girls’ armpits. Do you hope the manager tells the girls to cover up? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![trishka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@trishka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trishka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/123 "2004-08-12T16:11:33Z")
Oh, nyctea scandiaca, nyctea scandiaca, nyctea scandiaca… are you really in N. Virginia? Because I live in Maryland and I’m having this overwhelming desire to kidnap you and force you to watch me nurse my child a la Clockwork Orange so you will just get over this! 😉 Please, please, please go back and re-read what you just wrote and see all the incongruences in your post. You say that you’re all for giving people the freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. And you’re even willing to admit that a women nursing her child in a public place like Starbucks doesn’t hurt you in the slightest but you go on to call nursing “awkward”. It’s not awkward in the slightest. It’s normal. It’s natural. It’s how mammals feed their young. That’s all it is! The bodily fluid in question is breastmilk. The reason why it exists and is being excreted is to feed a baby. The baby is being fed. With a breast. The thing that exists to feed a baby. Why is this so hard to understand? It’s not about etiquette, it’s not about “pet peeves”. It’s just feeding a baby. That’s all it is. I need to either shell out the $15 bucks to continue my crusade or else someone else is going to have to take the torch. My guest pass ends today. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/124 "2004-08-12T16:19:41Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > I need to either shell out the $15 bucks to continue my crusade or else someone else is going to have to take the torch. My guest pass ends today. Join us…join us! You know you want to. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/125 "2004-08-12T16:29:50Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > **Jeff** , my son would never take a paci. He would give me this look like “why are you sticking this piece of plastic in my mouth, you freak?” and immediately fling it out with his tongue. Sure, because he knows that doing so will get him the real thing. > [@Cinnamon Girl](#): > > In that case, why not just give the baby the real thing as opposed to some inferior facsimile? Gee, I dunno, to _pacify_ it? Even a thumb will do in a pinch if all the baby wants is comfort & security. :rolleyes: to you too. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/126 "2004-08-12T16:30:18Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > I need to either shell out the $15 bucks to continue my crusade or else someone else is going to have to take the torch. My guest pass ends today. Ya done good! 🙂 I, for one, am interested in seeing you and your reasoning stick around. So, pony up, sister! Just remember that in real life you rarely have the opportunity to contribute to a worthy cause for the privilege of ripping your opponents’ arguments to shreds. It’s money well-spent, in your case. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/127 "2004-08-12T16:35:37Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Sure, because he knows that doing so will get him the real thing.Gee, I dunno, to _pacify_ it? Even a thumb will do in a pinch if all the baby wants is comfort & security. :rolleyes: to you too. I guess the fact that pacifiers are supposed to simulate a human nipple is lost on you. Though there is quite the variety of pacifier out there, for some babies, they’re still a piss-poor imitation for the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![trishka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@trishka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trishka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/128 "2004-08-12T16:40:55Z")
Well, **Dangerosa** , I happen to disagree with you that I’m setting my son for food issue later in life because we’re still demand nursing at 15 months. And we just had his 15 month pediatrician appointment where I mentioned to the ped that we’re still nursing and interestingly, she didn’t seem alarmed or concerned. And while I’m sure my son _could_ get his comfort and security from a cuddle just as well as from nursing, I really have no desire to try to glean from him if he’s truly hungry or just wants to nurse for comfort all so that some stranger who happens to be sitting across from me at Starbucks won’t glare at me because I’m nursing him instead of “teaching” him to go without. Not to mention the fact that my 15 month old is pre-verbal and wouldn’t be able to tell me one way or the other anyway. Your kids must be gifted or mine is well on his way to special education classes along with his therapy for his food issues, because as much as I would like to explain to my son that Target is not the place to throw a hissy because he can’t grab that stuffed elmo doll of the shelf, all of my “explaining” goes in one ear and right out of the other. Which, from what I understand, is very typical behavior for a 15 month old. Rationalization is not in our bag of tricks just yet. Removal from the situation, distraction, etc is. The weird thing about this whole back and forth that you and I have been having about nursing 15 month olds is, how can you tell just from looking at a child how old he/she is? There are some big 8 month olds that just to look at them could easily pass for much older and there are some petite 18 month olds that could pass for much younger. Like I said before, I don’t prescribe to some arbitrary age limit for nursing. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/129 "2004-08-12T16:42:09Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I’d rather some attempt at general modesty be made than someone laying a tit on a table and then bitching that other people are insensitive. So right. so very right. Sometimes breastfeeding women (and I was one, so I’m not anti-breastfeeding) remind me of tatoo’d Goth kids - “Why is everyone staring at me, they are so insensitive, they hate me!!!” And so often the nursing women are the ones that are very “in your face” over breastfeeding. I remember many many breastfeeders whining in one sentence about how “insensitive” other people were about their breastfeeding, and in the next sentence saying something directly insulting about bottlefeeders. People who give a don’t think discrete breastfeeding should happen in public ever need to catch a clue bus. But a nurse in isn’t discrete breastfeeding - the whole purpose of a nurse in is to nurse in people’s faces and make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/130 "2004-08-12T16:48:26Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > The bodily fluid in question is breastmilk. The reason why it exists and is being excreted is to feed a baby. The baby is being fed. With a breast. The thing that exists to feed a baby. Why is this so hard to understand? It’s not about etiquette, it’s not about “pet peeves”. It’s just feeding a baby. That’s all it is. I do understand all of the above. I have been aware since birth of the function of a breast. I still stand by my statement that: Breast feeding, IMO, is a bodily function that 1) involves the exposing of a body part which is usually covered and 2) involves the excretion of bodily fluids. As such, I personally would rather do it in private, and personally would rather not see a bare breast hanging out in certain public areas. I think most women would rather do it in private, if they could. I think most women would rather avoid exposing their bare breast in public if at all possible. Don’t you think? P.S. Please don’t kidnap me! I have seen plenty of breastfeeding mothers, I don’t know why you think me watching you is going to change my mind. P.S.S. Another thing I find annoying about breastfeeding is that slurping noise, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![trishka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@trishka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trishka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/131 "2004-08-12T16:51:04Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Join us…join us! You know you want to. > > Daniel If I join, to I get acess nyctea scandia’s home address so I can stand outside her bedroom window and nurse? 😉 And I think this place is a baaaaaad place because I haven’t gotten a lick of work done all day! ---
**Author:** ![trishka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@trishka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trishka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/132 "2004-08-12T16:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=Jeff Olsen] _Sure, because he knows that doing so will get him the real thing._ **Jeff** , babies just aren’t that manipulative. And you know, I bet he cries…to get me to pay attention to him. That little stinker! No, he just didn’t like pacifiers. And I don’t blame him. It’s not a real nipple, there’s nothing coming out of it…what’s the point? My son is just too smart to be that easily fooled. Must take after his mom. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/133 "2004-08-12T17:03:41Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > If I join, to I get acess nyctea scandia’s home address so I can stand outside her bedroom window and nurse? 😉 Pray tell, how would seeing you nurse change my opinion on the matter? I have seen tons of nursing in my time. Why would seeing you make any difference? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/134 "2004-08-12T17:04:12Z")
Babies aren’t that manipulative? I’ve seen my friend’s sister’s kid (less than a year old) throw a toy or a pacifier or something on the floor repeatedly and squeal with glee at watching someone repeatedly go pick it up for her. She learned pretty damn quick what gets desired results. ---
**Author:** ![trishka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@trishka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trishka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/135 "2004-08-12T17:06:49Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The whole purpose of a nurse in is to nurse in people’s faces and make a point. Um, yeah, and…? The whole point of sitting at lunch room counters, riding in the front of buses, boycotting, strikes is…well, to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/136 "2004-08-12T17:07:06Z")
> [@trishka](#): > > . Removal from the situation, distraction, etc is. > > The weird thing about this whole back and forth that you and I have been having about nursing 15 month olds is, how can you tell just from looking at a child how old he/she is? There are some big 8 month olds that just to look at them could easily pass for much older and there are some petite 18 month olds that could pass for much younger. Like I said before, I don’t prescribe to some arbitrary age limit for nursing. Bingo on the removal from the situation, distraction thing…works for nursing as well. Its laying the groundwork for the later rationalization phase (which my four year old still hasn’t gotten to). And a hungry 15 month old should be able to get by on goldfish crackers, cheerios, tofu (or whatever you feed yours) and water - if they are hungry and not crying for comfort. It isn’t an arbitary fifteen months here. Generally, kids who walk and talk are too old to breastfeed in public, unless there is an overriding need (and comfort isn’t it in my book - but I’m not talking about passing laws (well, except the ones that give you are right to breastfeed which I support) and what do you think if I walk out of Starbucks thinking you are inconsiderate). Its a size plus developmental level thing in my mind. Like porn (and I’m not comparing breastfeeding to porn, just using a well known quote) “I know it when I see it.” See, people raise their kids in just about a zillion ways. Sometimes that inconviences me and I think they are being rude. I think people who take their four year olds to $50 a plate restaurants are being rude. Not the place for four year olds, but I don’t make the rules (I can ask to be moved, but if you think I’m being insensitive because I ask to be moved away from your four year old, you are being a hypocrit). I think people who let their kids scream in Target and don’t remove them are being rude. I actually have little problem with a fifteen month old breastfeeding - but I know other people would think you are being rude - and I really can’t see why you’d need to be rude in that situation. Did you mention to your peditrician that you were still “demand nursing” or nursing. Nursing is perfectly normal at 15 months. I may be wrong, but I’d guess that at least some peditricians would have problems with demand nursing at 15 months. Maybe yours doesn’t. I’m neither a child development expert nor a peditrician, just a mom who has read a LOT of books (I have a challenging four year old that we’ve made some mistakes with - including allowing her comfort crutches because she “needed them” and “you can’t spoil a baby”), and demand nursing at fifteen months does ring some warning bells for me. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/137 "2004-08-12T17:10:43Z")
I’m reading the Washington Post’s Live Online chat with columnist Marc Fisher, [http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/r\_metro\_fisher081204.htm](http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/r_metro_fisher081204.htm) and there are a few interesting comments on the breastfeeding column from yesterday: > [@](#): > > 15th and L Sts., NW, Washington, D.C.: Hey Marc, what did you think of Roxanne Roberts’ piece about breastfeeding in Starbucks? (Do Me a Favor, Keep a Lid on Your Double Latte ) (Post, Aug. 11) I say Amen, sister! Keep it covered! > > Marc Fisher: I’m with my friend Rox, though perhaps not quite as strongly as she put it in her fine rant in yesterday’s Style section. Our daughter spent her nursing years in Europe, where letting it all hang out is the standard. So I have no objection to public breastfeeding, but I agree with Rox that a bit of discretion is part of the price we pay for living together in a community, and a nice soft cotton cover is something that makes breastfeeding a happy time for all involved. > But I don’t get why nursing mothers are in Starbucks in the first place–caffeine isn’t exactly the recommended diet for nursing babes. > > Alexandria, Va.: I wholeheartedly agree with the breast-feeding rant in the Post the other day, too. My entire problem with the, eh, “lactators’ protest” at Starbucks was that they did it en masse – one woman breastfeeding, I can avoid. But dozens? To where, pray tell, should I avert my eyes if there are bare breasts at every turn? This is not a way to engender support for their cause. > > Marc Fisher: Mass breast feed-ins are apparently the fashionable form of protest against any establishment that dares to set some rules. I don’t really know whether the Starbucks folks were in the right–generally, when these things get out of hand, it’s fair to say that someone overreacted. There are always quiet, discreet ways to handle problems rather than tossing people out of the store. But managers of a public place should have the right to tell folks, you know, we have a certain standard of behavior here and we’d like you to follow it. A restaurant or theater has a right to set a dress code, and this is no different, as long as the woman’s right to feed her baby is protected. > > Maryland: The nursing mother at Starbucks lost me when she refused to use a small blanket to cover herself. Public nursing is not shameful, but you still shouldn’t “let it all hang out” if you are in public. > Another case of “my rights trump yours” from that lady. > > Marc Fisher: Right… > > Washington, D.C.: The other item that bugged me about the mother who started this whole thing about breastfeeding at Starbucks is that the baby in question was 15 months old - over one year! Newborns must be fed every 2 hours, sure, but making all this ruckus over a one-year old who could have sucked on cheerios while his mom had her latte? Please. > > Marc Fisher: Yeah, well, feeding a 15-month-old could have any number of purposes. Lots of folks use it as a way to get the little critter to sleep. That’s how it was done in our family. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/138 "2004-08-12T17:17:23Z")
> [@Cinnamon Girl](#): > > pacifiers are supposed to simulate a human nipple So is the functional end of a bottle. > [@trishka](#): > > Jeff, babies just aren’t that manipulative. Who said anything about being manipulative (on preview: other than **catsix** )? Babies learn, it’s what they do other than eat & sleep. Is it not possible that yours learned to refuse a pacifier? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/139 "2004-08-12T17:22:08Z")
> [@Washington Post Live Online chat](#): > > Newborns must be fed every 2 hours, sure, but making all this ruckus over a one-year old who could have sucked on cheerios while his mom had her latte? Please. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > And a hungry 15 month old should be able to get by on goldfish crackers, cheerios, tofu (or whatever you feed yours) and water - if they are hungry and not crying for comfort. Good point made by both! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378/140 "2004-08-12T17:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Jeff, babies just aren’t that manipulative. You know, that’s what I thought, too. But I was wrong…oh so wrong. And we are paying the price. Babies - little infants - are not manipulative. Babies by six months can be. Babies by a year certainly can be. I raised my son and daughter almost right after each other (they are not even 13 months apart). My son, even tempered and un spoiled. My daughter…eeeek! On the paci thing - my kids weren’t paci kids cause I wasn’t a paci mom - some moms are, some aren’t, mine spit it out and I didn’t want to spend their early months putting it back in, so no paci. Babies who want to suck for comfort will find something (fingers, hands, toes, mom’s hair - I know a few hair suckers) if a paci, breast or bottle isn’t provided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-push-for-public-breastfeeding-policy-at-starbucks-stage-nurse-in/259378.md?page=8)