# Women: share your stories of having your crotch grabbed (when you didn't want it) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105 "2016-10-09T22:32:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/241 "2016-10-14T15:21:55Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The incident occurred over 20 years ago, so taking the guy to the police may not have been that productive and certainly would have embarrassed the woman much, much more. She certainly looked like she DID NOT want to have any more attention on her. > > This has changed, in no small due to education from the transportation companies and public service campaigns. People would be much more likely to take the perpetrator to the police and the victim would be more likely to press charges. > > On another occasion, I did catch someone groping a woman. I caught the guy instead of upending him but the lady did not want to go to the police. Other times friends have helped and where the women did press charges. > > There has also been large scale public service campaigns against sexual harassment and Trump-type of behavior in the workplace. As drinking is almost mandatory in Japan, this can be a nightmare for women, especially young women just entering a company. Corporations will have annual overnight trips where people become drunk, and we all know how some men, especially bosses, behave in these circumstances. > > As far as rape, it’s terribly under reported both to the police and in the media, but I honestly don’t know by how much. A report on television may say a woman was abducted from such and such a place and released “safely” several hours later. > > There still is very much a shame attached and part of the silence in which Japanese typically handle problems. Thanks for your response. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/242 "2016-10-14T15:28:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Good grief. I knew this behavior (behavior like that named in the title of this thread), and I assumed every woman has experienced \*some \*of it, but I had no idea how common. > > The upside of all this is that it IS coming out in the open. Social media, especially Twitter, has made this possible. It is the very definition of mass communication. This. The anonymity offered by the internet (and social media specifically) has horrible consequences, but it also gives people the courage/freedom to talk about stuff that we just don’t normally talk about FTF. I’ve heard a couple groping/assault stories from women in my life (exes, friends), but I know that they’re just the tip of the iceberg. It’s not something I’ve talked about with my mom or sister, for instance, and I probably never will. Hell, I’ve never shared my one groping experience (I’m a guy) or the couple of creeps that tried to get me into their car or whatever. And if I do, it’s much more likely to be with strangers under a pseudonym. It’s less than ideal - we shouldn’t let discomfort keep us from talking about this - but the kind of anonymous sharing seen in this thread is much better than nothing, if only because it raises awareness. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/243 "2016-10-14T15:36:23Z")
I told my husband about my incidents (I have since remembered a third, when I was in junior high) and he immediately went into Knight in Shining Armor mode, “Who, What, Where was I?” I told him it was highly likely that his sisters and daughter have been groped. I’m trying to understand why guys feel it necessary to engage in locker room talk. My husband was in the Navy, serving on a submarine, and he says it’s even worse with a bunch of guys cooped up for six months in a metal tube. Is it some sort of release for sexual frustrations? Just because you trash talk doesn’t mean you’d ever do it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/244 "2016-10-14T16:09:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I’m trying to understand why guys feel it necessary to engage in locker room talk. My husband was in the Navy, serving on a submarine, and he says it’s even worse with a bunch of guys cooped up for six months in a metal tube. Is it some sort of release for sexual frustrations? Just because you trash talk doesn’t mean you’d ever do it? According to this article — [How Trump's Locker-Room Talk Maintains the Patriarchy -- Science of Us](http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/10/how-trumps-locker-room-talk-maintains-the-patriarchy.html) What is going on is that men are bonding with other men by making themselves vulnerable by saying things in private that would be unacceptable in public. And part of this bonding process is to get together and denigrate women, make them the enemy, to preserve a wall of male dominance when they are back outside the locker room. > [@](#): > > Cameron notes that Trump’s “moved on her like a bitch” monologue is like fishermen boasting of big catches or soldiers swapping war stories. The misogyny doesn’t speak so much to their hating women, Cameron argues, but to the lads’ investment in their brotherly relationships. The “goal is to impress their male peers,” she notes, and the misogyny and dehumanization is a means to a bro-y end. That’s why the meaning of the locker-room talk is more than just Trump being a sexist jackass. Rather, this kind of banter is “a ritualised social practice which contributes to the maintenance of structural sexual inequality,” she says. The banter also tends to have a no-girls-allowed locus, maybe a strip club, a sports bar, or yes, a locker room. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/245 "2016-10-14T16:27:36Z")
Here’s a great article about [harassment of women](http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/women-are-expected-to-humour-harassment-this-is-why-we-cant-20161014-gs28pi.html). It gives three recent Australian examples of assaults against women. > [@](#): > > … the terrifying outcomes that can await women who either treat strange men with suspicion or reject their attention entirely. There are countless more. And this is precisely why so many women express discomfort at being approached by strange men in public places, or appear on edge or even fearful when seemingly hemmed in by them and their intense, focused attention. > > But you see, women aren’t allowed to talk about those things or fight back against them. Because that makes men feel bad. It then details another interaction on public transport, where a man demanded high-fives (what?) from three women. Another observer took a photo of this man in an attempt to call out and “name and shame” him for this behaviour. Various MRA groups have taken on this man’s cause, making up defenses for him (“he’s being friendly! he’s disabled! he’s autistic!” – none of which are true) and harrassing the observer, by, what else, sending her dick pics. The author concludes: > [@](#): > > This is just another opportunity for men to discredit the experiences of women by telling us that events they did not witness were in fact harmless and actually even friendly, and that our own paranoid, hysterical brains are merely confused. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/246 "2016-10-14T17:24:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > According to this article — [How Trump's Locker-Room Talk Maintains the Patriarchy -- Science of Us](http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/10/how-trumps-locker-room-talk-maintains-the-patriarchy.html) > > And part of this bonding process is to get together and denigrate women, make them the enemy, to preserve a wall of male dominance when they are back outside the locker room. This doesn’t make sense to me. The article is suggesting, that even in this day and age, men have to denigrate women in order to feel superior and dominant? That locker room banter is a display of vulnerablity? That men can only bond with men by waving their penises about? I guess I mustn’t worry my pretty little ahead about it, then. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/247 "2016-10-14T17:53:08Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > This doesn’t make sense to me. The article is suggesting, that even in this day and age, men have to denigrate women in order to feel superior and dominant? That locker room banter is a display of vulnerablity? That men can only bond with men by waving their penises about? > > I guess I mustn’t worry my pretty little ahead about it, then. _Some_ men, yes. It infuriates me when men or women excuse such behavior with “that’s just what guys do” because no. The men I choose to allow into my life do not do that. And there are a host of other men who are bothered by it but hesitant to speak up. The ones don’t that interpret silence as agreement and complicity. IMO that’s the part we’ve got to change. People need to learn to speak up. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/248 "2016-10-14T17:53:13Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > This doesn’t make sense to me. The article is suggesting, that even in this day and age, men have to denigrate women in order to feel superior and dominant? That locker room banter is a display of vulnerablity? That men can only bond with men by waving their penises about? > > I guess I mustn’t worry my pretty little ahead about it, then. Change “men” to “some men in some settings” and I _think_ it … I was going to say it “makes more sense,” but that’s not right. “Seems more familiar?” Lemme try to put it another way: some (many? Most?) social groups have an impulse to define their boundaries. One of the ways they do that is language. A group of friends might have inside jokes. Or nicknames. Various ethnic/sexual minorities have slang/dialect. And so on. Outsiders won’t get it, and that makes the bond among insiders all the stronger. So macho men (or whatever we want to call them) have their own language/behavior that defines the insider/outsider boundary. Women (and non-macho men) won’t get it, will reject it, and that’s kind of the point. As - “in this day and age,” like you said - this talk becomes less acceptable among outsiders, the boundary-defining power of insider language becomes all the more powerful. That doesn’t make the content of the insider talk/behavior any less harmful - in other words, it’s absolutely worth worrying about! But the article is trying to give a sociological explanation for why something so wrong seems right and natural to a few. I hope that made sense? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/249 "2016-10-14T17:54:20Z")
Sorry… The ones who DO that interpret silence as complicity. Is it possible to edit posts in Tapatalk? Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/250 "2016-10-14T18:31:15Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > That doesn’t make the content of the insider talk/behavior any less harmful - in other words, it’s absolutely worth worrying about! But the article is trying to give a sociological explanation for why something so wrong seems right and natural to a few. > > I hope that made sense? But the sociological explanation should not mean it’s excusable behavior. I did mean “some,” not all. I certainly did not mean to brush all males with the same brush. _Takes a deep breath__My men are not like this_ _Society is starting to come around_ ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/251 "2016-10-14T19:00:52Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > But the sociological explanation should not mean it’s excusable behavior. > > I did mean “some,” not all. I certainly did not mean to brush all males with the same brush. _Takes a deep breath__My men are not like this_ _Society is starting to come around_ I hear ya! At some level, explaining bad behavior is equivalent to providing an excuse for it. That’s 100% true. I talk to a lot of young criminals, and there’s always a tension between “Oh, NOW see why you thought you had to do that” and “Oh my god, how could you do that?!” Still, I think there’s value in understanding root causes - helps lay groundwork for a better future. And I think the NY Mag article was focused on understanding, not justifying, this stuff. (And yes, society is starting to come around - too slowly, but the direction is positive, I’d say.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/252 "2016-10-14T19:55:48Z")
I thought of one that I didn’t even recognize as sexual assault at the time. I was 17, dating a 27 year old guy (it was a rough, confusing year.) We made out, it was fun. I met his family, they were nice. We were hanging out at his house and he starts pressuring me for sex. I told him straight up that I had just escaped a sexual abuse situation and I was not going to have sex with him. ‘‘Well if you have sex with me then you can heal from your past.’’ No, no and no. He responded by reaching out, taking my hand, and… putting it on his penis. I left. I did not see him again. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/253 "2016-10-15T02:44:30Z")
I invite you to re-read what I wrote and what you wrote in response: > [@Bricker](#): > > The answer is yes. You walk down the street, someone’s coming the other way, you smile and nod that person in passing. Man or woman. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Our responsibility to people in public is to not make things needlessly harder; accept people as you find them unless there’s genuine intervention called for (they’re sobbing, having a medical emergency, that sort of thing). Their expression isn’t your business and no one’s entitled to control that but them. That is courtesy at its most basic and it’s confusing to me how anyone could think the expression on another person’s face somehow costs them something. > How would the frown of another person possibly be a detriment? Having re-read them, I now invite you to point out which of my words said that their expression is any of my business, or that it “costs me” something, or, more generally, I invite you to explain in what specific way what you wrote has any relevance to what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/254 "2016-10-15T03:05:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I invite you to re-read what I wrote and what you wrote in response: > > Having re-read them, I now invite you to point out which of my words said that their expression is any of my business, or that it “costs me” something, or, more generally, I invite you to explain in what specific way what you wrote has any relevance to what I wrote. You’re not entitled to a response from me but since this is a written medium I’ll be polite enough to tell you to consider your demand ignored. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/255 "2016-10-15T03:08:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I \*\*invite \*\*you to re-read what I wrote and what you wrote in response: > > Having re-read them, I now \*\*invite \*\*you to point out which of my words said that their expression is any of my business, or that it “costs me” something, or, more generally, I \*\*invite \*\*you to explain in what specific way what you wrote has any relevance to what I wrote. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > You’re not entitled to a response from me but since this is a written medium I’ll be polite enough to tell you to consider your \*\*demand \*\*ignored. My bold. I have no idea what this is about, but just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/256 "2016-10-15T03:15:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > I have no idea what this is about, but just sayin’. Yes, I see he used one word and I used a different one. Shall we continue discussing the consent and sexual assault conversation that’s being had here and on a national level? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/257 "2016-10-15T03:40:45Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Yes, I see he used one word and I used a different one. > > Shall we continue discussing the consent and sexual assault conversation that’s being had here and on a national level? Yes, two different words. By all means, you are welcome as the flowers in May to keep posting in the thread I launched. It’s a touchy topic and this whole election is making people cranky. I’m trying to keep my wits about me and not always succeeding. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/258 "2016-10-15T03:44:50Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > How does this match with your experience? I know in Japan that women traditionally didn’t speak out and many were and are blamed for it. I very much get that this has been a large issue in the States as well. I didn’t speak up when I was young because I was told not to, there would be consequences. I don’t think that changes at any point in your life - you’ll face consequences if you report someone, from scrutiny and disbelief to far worse. I haven’t spoken up IRL since except for one godawful conversation with my parents when I was already an adult, and in counseling sessions years ago. So IRL that’s a lot of people over a long time who have known nothing about it, including a husband…which does sound a little weird now that I’m typing it out, but it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/259 "2016-10-15T05:37:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I invite you to re-read what I wrote and what you wrote in response:. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > You’re not entitled to a response from me but since this is a written medium I’ll be polite enough to tell you to consider your demand ignored. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > I have no idea what this is about, but just sayin’. That is a valid discrepancy to point out. She’s reading something into what Bricker wrote that he didn’t say or in any way imply, that the majority of other posters wouldn’t interpret the way she did. If there is any relevant male perspective on this subject, which I question since the thread is titled “Women: …” but nevertheless has been welcomed by you the OP and other participants, it isn’t going to be heard if our words are misconstrued and then argued against as though we said something that we didn’t. The fact is that 1 out of 5 or so of all women will be sexually assaulted and that is staggering. More than half of them will be under the age of 30 and more than half will be victims of someone that they know very well. Another large portion by someone they know at least peripherally. The odds of any one random woman being in danger of sexual assault by any one random, unknown male who nods politely in passing aren’t 1 in 5 - they are so low as to be practically irrelevant to the discussion. There’s more than one conversation going here. The very real, very serious problem women face with regard to sexual assault, and another slant on the subject that rationalizes having a suspicion of any unknown male. The latter is not supported by reality. If it’s what someone needs to get through the day more power to them but it shouldn’t be considered necessary or even valid for everyone. Most women I’ve discussed this with tend to rely on a ‘spidey sense’ that they are wise enough to listen to when something seems off. But that sense isn’t usually triggered by everyday normal interactions like a smile and a nod in passing, or whatever. It’s relied on in moments when they are actually vulnerable and they are dealing with someone who in some way gives them reason, even if inarticulable at the moment, to be concerned. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105/260 "2016-10-15T07:27:28Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > I didn’t speak up when I was young because I was told not to, there would be consequences. I don’t think that changes at any point in your life - you’ll face consequences if you report someone, from scrutiny and disbelief to far worse. > > I haven’t spoken up IRL since except for one godawful conversation with my parents when I was already an adult, and in counseling sessions years ago. So IRL that’s a lot of people over a long time who have known nothing about it, including a husband…which does sound a little weird now that I’m typing it out, but it is what it is. My cousin was raped by a stranger at gun point when she was 14 or so, so that would be around the year 1980. My uncle forbid them to go to the police. I come from a very screwed up family and despite them all being outwardly devoted Mormons, there was a lot of sexual abuse and other problems. Another uncle molested one of my cousins from the above family and she didn’t report it for years, for obvious reasons. It didn’t come out until her father passed away. My father molested my sisters and they have expressed their disappointment in my mother’s reaction. Thinking back at it now that I’m a father, I have absolutely no fucking idea why my mother would allow my father to remain in the house. If someone were to harm my children, there would be terrible consequences to pay, even if – or especially if – it were their mother. (Who would never harm them, so I’m perfectly safe in this hypothetical.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-share-your-stories-of-having-your-crotch-grabbed-when-you-didnt-want-it/768105.md?page=14)