# Women should learn from nra **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338 "2013-07-24T00:17:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/41 "2013-07-24T22:58:03Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > Thanks. Sometimes I’m a skimmer, rather than a reader. > > If I follow correctly, it sounds like you suspect a coordinated or coincidental trend of mis-representing NRA membership without having to show their credentials. > > Does a scientific survey even have access to NRA membership lists? I thought the NRA protected their members private information. > > But to your other point about membership swelling, I don’t find it hard to imagine gun enthusiasts who felt under siege to be motivated to join. Just as I can imagine that people who disagree with the policy may just let their membership lapse once it comes around for renewal. I can also imagine that some members may have a preference but not so passionately that it would persuade them to drop a longstanding membership. > > Caveat: just wild-ass guesses on my part. I feel like I’m hijacking the thread. (But thanks for the extra insight!) Bottom line the NRA got just what it wanted…PP didnt ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/42 "2013-07-24T23:29:37Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > Does a scientific survey even have access to NRA membership lists? I thought the NRA protected their members private information. They don’t, and they do. This is rather like the NRA demanding that Congress simply enforce existing gun laws rather than passing new ones, while simultaneously defunding gun law enforcement agencies. I am not accusing **JXJohns** of using that as a tactic, for the record, and I agree that the study is flawed because of the reasons he gives. We just don’t have anything better. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/43 "2013-07-24T23:40:39Z")
Sorry, didn’t read the entire thread, just scanned the first 10 posts or so. Has anyone noted that while the NRA is a monolithic voluntary organization of like minded individuals, women are not? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/44 "2013-07-24T23:41:38Z")
Most men, I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/45 "2013-07-25T06:27:09Z")
Well OP, your first mistake was thinking women have comparable political power. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/46 "2013-07-25T07:27:16Z")
Gun enthusiasts are single issue voters - you can get them to swing their votes on the basis of this one issue. Few in favor of gun control will change their vote for it. (Ditto for turnout). ## When abortion is legal, chipping away at abortion rights in the past hasn’t led to much swing in the vote. Admittedly this may change at the state level. And if Roe v. Wade were overturned, I predict that the Republicans would face an electoral tsunami against them at the national level. That said, I am in awe of the NRA and think they deserve study. They sent me free propaganda for a couple of months and it was the best I had ever read. It’s not just that they are backed by an industry (though they are): they are also backed by a multifaceted hobby. Plus a few obsessive fanatics. Damn they’re good. If only the Sierra Club were as effective. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/47 "2013-07-25T12:44:51Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > You’re assuming 100% of women are pro-choice. That is hilariously inaccurate - there are many women that are pro-life. I included pro choice men if you noticed and yes…that is more than 50% ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/48 "2013-07-25T13:29:47Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > I included pro choice men if you noticed and yes…that is more than 50% In [2012](http://www.gallup.com/poll/154946/Non-Christians-Postgrads-Highly-Pro-Choice.aspx)53% of men said they were pro-life and 46% of women were pro-life. 38% of men were pro-choice and 44% of women were pro-choice. That does not equal more than 50% of people being pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/49 "2013-07-25T14:02:14Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > **Look at the swing.** No, no, we’re talking about **women** here. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/50 "2013-07-26T12:32:31Z")
This thread reminds me of an article i read a few months ago: [The Abortion Rights Community Has Become the NRA of the Left](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/06/abortion-rights-community-has-become-the-nra-of-the-left.html) As you can see from the article, it’s not so clear that’s working out so well for abortion advocates. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/51 "2013-07-26T13:02:31Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > In [2012](http://www.gallup.com/poll/154946/Non-Christians-Postgrads-Highly-Pro-Choice.aspx)53% of men said they were pro-life and 46% of women were pro-life. 38% of men were pro-choice and 44% of women were pro-choice. That does not equal more than 50% of people being pro-choice. Let’s forget the labels of pro-choice and pro-life. Pro life sounds so good. Most of the country is opposed to taking away abortions for women …except those on the extreme right, usually old white southern guys. (Not stereotyping but factual) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/52 "2013-07-26T14:18:17Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > Let’s forget the labels of pro-choice and pro-life. Pro life sounds so good. Most of the country is opposed to taking away abortions for women …except those on the extreme right, usually old white southern guys. (Not stereotyping but factual) Pro-choice is also a euphemism. If you look in depth at what people feel about abortion, the public is more anti-abortion than pro. I would consider the position that all or most abortion should be legal pro-choice, and the position that all or most abortions should be illegal pro-life. [According](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147734/Americans-Split-Along-Pro-Choice-Pro-Life-Lines.aspx)to those definitions 60% of women and 61% of men are pro-life. 37% of women and 36% of men are pro-choice. That is alot of old white southern guys. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/53 "2013-07-26T15:03:15Z")
You guys are both wrong. There are plenty of people who self-identify as “Pro-life” but who still want abortions to be legal, even if they think there should be more restrictions than currently exist. Only a minority, although a sizable one, wants to overturn _Roe_. But that minority is a lot more than “Southern White Guys”, and includes plenty of non-Southern White and non-White Women. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/54 "2013-07-29T05:01:17Z")
> [@Renee\_RL](#): > > The NRA won’t concede on anything because they feel their fun rights will be chipped away and they were successful. Why aren’t women’s groups meeting with the same success? Look at our reproductive rights being taken away They don’t concede anything because they don’t have to. You know history did exist before 1995. We had quite a bit of federal legislation reducing gun rights. So far the only federal legislation reducing abortion rights was the partial birth abortion ban and that was about as useful and effective as the AWB. It made the anti-abortion folks feel all warm and fuzzy but it didn’t achieve shit. Just like an AWB makes gun grabbers feel all warm and fuzzy like they’re doing something but really it doesn’t achieve anything worthwhile. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > The gun-rights lobby had the massive advantage of starting with most of the rights they want being in effect (with a few exceptions, like concealed carry). There were no federal gun laws until 1934, and then no others until 1968. > > Seems like it’d be easier to stop rights from being taken away, than to fight for them in the first place. The Second Amendment did most of that for gun rights in 1791. We are seeing abortion rights being curbed at the state level and we are also seeing gun rights being curbed at the state level. I’m not really sure I see the OP’s point. There is some point beyond which states cannot curb those rights any further, in either case. Or am I the only one that noticed that there are at least 5 states that passed stricter gun control after Newtown? ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/55 "2013-07-29T11:58:15Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Of course we have a package. We just don’t go boasting about it nor waggling it hither and thither. 😉 > > It’s just housed indoors and from it springs the entire human race. I’ve long thought that **Oakminster’s** _Lysistratra_ suggestion could move things along rather rapidly for any women’s cause. > > Maybe some of it is generational. The second wave feminists were a fairly nasty bunch of women and blood was shed, figuratively speaking. They got a lot done. War is like that. > > This generation talks a fine game and is sufficiently snarky but seems to be stuck in gridlock in many of its most urgent issues. I am a second wave feminist and yes we really made a difference. This generation takes for granted what we have fought for. You don’t miss something you never had. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/56 "2013-07-29T12:01:54Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Of course we have a package. We just don’t go boasting about it nor waggling it hither and thither. 😉 > > It’s just housed indoors and from it springs the entire human race. I’ve long thought that **Oakminster’s** _Lysistratra_ suggestion could move things along rather rapidly for any women’s cause. > > Maybe some of it is generational. The second wave feminists were a fairly nasty bunch of women and blood was shed, figuratively speaking. They got a lot done. War is like that. > > This generation talks a fine game and is sufficiently snarky but seems to be stuck in gridlock in many of its most urgent issues. I am a second wave feminist and yes we really made a difference. This generation takes for granted what we have fought for. You don’t miss something you never had. They didn’t face discrimination by being denied admissions to the best colleges and the best jobs like my generation did. And as far as packages are concerned… The important organs are encased. The brain is encased in the skull. The heart is encased in a rib cage. The uterus is protected by pelvic bones. But the penis? It just hangs there vulnerable:smack: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/57 "2013-07-29T15:43:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I am not accusing **JXJohns** of using that as a tactic, for the record, and I agree that the study is flawed because of the reasons he gives. We just don’t have anything better. Well, there’s the [NRA survey](http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2013/1/survey-finds-nra-members-united.aspx?s=&st=&ps=) … ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338/58 "2013-07-29T15:55:05Z")
Well, yes, but I think we can all agree that the NRA is not exactly objective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-should-learn-from-nra/664338.md?page=2)