# Women value men with skills and such. Not vice versa? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192 "2004-01-12T22:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colinmarshall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Colinmarshall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colinmarshall)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/1 "2004-01-12T22:46:44Z")
I heard this discussed on the radio a few nights back, and have since been wondering about it. The hypothetical situation is as follows: One woman and three men are in a room. The men are all fairly attractive; on the tenscale, let’s call them sevens. The woman must choose only _one_ man out of the three. While she’s trying to decide, one of the dudes breaks out a guitar and starts playing it beautifully. The scale is now tipped irreversibly in his favor. The guitar player is _going_ to be the one chosen. Now reverse the sexes. Three women, one man that must choose. The women are all around the seven area as well. One woman breaks out a guitar and starts playing it beautifully. This doesn’t make a damned bit of difference to the man. He considers the three for a while, and ends up picking the one woman that’s infintesimally more physically attractive than the other two. These two situations sounded like gross generalizations to me, so I decided to ask my friends (male and female) what they would do in the shoes of the selector. Invariably, their choices matched those of the hypothetical examples. In some cases, the guys’ evaluation of the guitar-playing girl went _down_, but the girls never failed to choose the guitar guy. After further conversation, it came to light that, even if a man was attractive, my female friends wouldn’t be interested if all he did was sit at home and watch television. My male friends, however, _preferred_ the women with very little going on in their lives. Women with the kind of active, productive lifestyles that were demanded in the men were actually _less_ desirable to the guys questioned. Here’s what I ask the SDMB members: What would _you_ do in this situation, and why? My secondary question has to do with what seems to be the solid rift between the sexes here. Why do you think the men and women chose what they chose, respectively? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/2 "2004-01-13T02:16:09Z")
Men are generally vallued for their skills more than for being pretty. Playing football, making money, playing guitar, whatever. It’s probably relates to some hunter/gathering instinct. Besides, girls want “someone special”. They don’t want some regular shmoe who looks and acts just like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Baby\_Fish\_Mouth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a8b319/32.png) [@Baby\_Fish\_Mouth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baby_Fish_Mouth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/3 "2004-01-13T02:17:27Z")
What exactly are the men and women being chosen _for_? To sleep with? To date? If one woman is infinitesimally more attractive than the others, why are they all considered “sevens?” Sounds like a pretty dumb hypothetical situation meant to propagate some sort of stereotype that all men care about is looks. I for one don’t a single guy who actually prefers women with no interests of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/4 "2004-01-13T05:42:11Z")
For my choices I’d pick the following: [ul] [li]For a friend - The one who actually engaged me in good conversation.[/li][li]For sex - The one who seems the most adventurous.[/li][li]For a lifelong partner - The one with the most ambition and is the most optimistic about her future.[/li][/ul] Of course, the outcome of these choices would depend a lot on their opinion of me. As for why the rift between the sexes? Watch any reality TV show, that should get you started. ---
**Author:** ![Adjustable\_Beavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Adjustable\_Beavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adjustable_Beavis)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/5 "2004-01-13T15:37:49Z")
In the situation described in the OP I’d go for the girl with the guitar every time. I play guitar myself. Maybe we could play together or she could teach me to play better. Sure, beauty is appealing. But there has to be something more than just that. What’s inside, that’s what interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/6 "2004-01-13T17:02:39Z")
Your male friends are either a) very young b) very shallow or c) yanking your chain. Every man I know had his fill of girls who were pretty but had nothing to talk about while we were still in high school or college. “Women with the kind of active, productive lifestyles that were demanded in the men” are certainly perferred by me, as they tend to make better conversationalists. That said, being able to play the guitar ranks 0 on my scale of 1-10. Now if this hypothetical woman could look at my car and tell me why the Check Engine light keeps coming on, she’d definitely enhance her chances of being picked. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/7 "2004-01-13T17:40:26Z")
Personally I find talent extremely attactive. Especially women who can sing. Playing the guitar would add points for me. ---
**Author:** ![maggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@maggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/8 "2004-01-13T17:46:38Z")
I tended to date “trade” type guys: construction workers, builders, roofers, etc. I find them more attractive because they’re usually fairly handy and are in better shape than guys who worked in offices. Boy, now that I put it in writing, it sounds really one sided but nonetheless it is my perspective. For the record, I work in an office but also am fairly handy around the house which some guys I dated didn’t really like - they preferred to be that. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/9 "2004-01-13T17:52:11Z")
I’d go for the guitar playing girl so long as her tits got in the way of her playing, ---
**Author:** ![Sacrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Sacrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrip)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/10 "2004-01-13T18:51:07Z")
Well, there’s a few things to consider, in this hypothetical case. First, that a chick with skills are, to some guys, LESS desirable than a chick with none, especially when it’s a skill the guy does not have. Usually because the guy will feel that he’s less masculine for relying on or being shown up by the girl. Heck, if it’s car maintenence, sports, map reading, etc…he may just feel like returning his testicles for a refund. Plus, unless you’re a contestant on Elimidate, how often does a guy have to choose between 3 women at once. If that’s the case, he’ll often pick not so much the best girl, but the girl most likely to keep him around. A useful skill, like guitar playing, raises her value some, thereby making her harder to keep around, lest a higher value guy comes along and she decides to trade up. There’s also a small possibility that I’m projecting my own insecurities regarding women onto this hypothetical situation. Nah…(Will start ‘Why can’t I meet women who like me?’ thread shortly) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/11 "2004-01-14T18:02:34Z")
Guys tend to be rather lazy, no? So, in a hypothetical situation like this, he’s thinking “Which girl do I want to have sex with?” and is picking the girl with which he can engage in copious amounts of sex. If she’s too busy playing guitar, she’s too busy not having sex, so he’s going to move on. Personally, I think a girl who can play guitar is a good bonus. Especially if it’s electric and she can fucking wail. That’s damn hotand will increase a 7’s physical appeal up at least one full point. Again, the problem with this situation is that it’s going off of nothing but looks. What other interraction is there between the male and the females? I mean, if he picks the minisculy prettier one, and she ends up having a voice like a screaching tire, I’m pretty sure he’d move on. And again, what is he chosing this girl for? Dating, fucking, marriage, breaking up international spy rings, or just your standard “Now we’re going to stick you on a deserted island for the rest of your lives” scenario? Especially in that last one, most people would probably find the girl with the guitar talent a huge bonus. Just out of curiosity, why is it chicks always dig guys in bands? How does playing a guitar make a guy that much sexier? ---
**Author:** ![Sacrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Sacrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrip)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/12 "2004-01-14T19:12:03Z")
In other words, do girl groups have male groupies? Are there always guys waiting after a Hole concert, waving their Courtney Love posters and begging for an autograph, and maybe more that night? And would they ever admit to it if they were? I think what the OP’s question boils down to is “Will a man date a woman more skilled/successful/smart/etc…than he is?” And vice versa. Of course, I know all the guys HERE would, by and large, but would most? I’m tending towards a ‘no’ answer, knowing guys the way I do. But, I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/13 "2004-01-14T21:12:09Z")
> [@Sacrip](#): > > In other words, do girl groups have male groupies? Are there always guys waiting after a Hole concert, waving their Courtney Love posters and begging for an autograph, and maybe more that night? And would they ever admit to it if they were? …snippage… Thousands of fans can say “I’m in love with Hole,” but only Courtney’s bandmates can say, “I’m in Hole with Love.” With that lame gag out of the way, I’ll say that, aside from the one-night-stand category, I’d pick a woman with smarts. I’ve known guys who could not go to work and feel sure that she would chase away a sweeper salesman, or some such sucker deal. I never worry about that. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/14 "2004-01-14T21:38:48Z")
Written by me in 1984, not many years post-virginal – > [@](#): > > I need to find a place where the different folks go. You know. Hippies. Rulebreakers. Doing your own thing. A tall, slender woman with a mandolin, a cat, a sloppy room with clippings and poems all over the walls. Warm, honest, sure of herself, doesn’t care what the neighbors think of her. Can’t just wait for her to come looking for me. Look for the places she’d be at. It isn’t the main campus places, that’s for sure! ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/15 "2004-01-14T21:43:55Z")
In the OP Just _where_ does she pull the guitar out of? I prefer women who can talk, read and laugh. ---
**Author:** ![AntaresJB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AntaresJB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AntaresJB)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/16 "2004-01-15T04:36:50Z")
::takes careful note of the guys who are impressed by guitar-playing chicks:: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/17 "2004-01-15T08:28:06Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why is it chicks always dig guys in bands? How does playing a guitar make a guy that much sexier? Good question. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/18 "2004-01-15T09:01:08Z")
I’m pretty sure that the guitar was just one of many hypothetical examples of a “skill” that the person could demonstrate. It’s a useful example, but there are a fartillion variables, like “what kind of songs does he play and do I like that band?” and “is he any good at it?” and “is he trying to show off?” and “why doesn’t this party have a **piano** , ferchrissakes?” I probably am that guitar-playing guy, and I’ve been told that I’m more emotionally accessible when I’m playing music, less so when I’m not. I’m sure this makes a difference to some women. **Colinmarshall,** do you mean us to consider skills in general? Because in general, I’d much prefer a woman who can at least change a light bulb (or a flat tire!) without becoming Completely Helpless. If she played guitar, that would be fantastic because we could duo—but I realize it’s sort of a special case. ---
**Author:** ![Insecta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3da27b/32.png) [@Insecta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Insecta)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/19 "2004-01-15T18:28:08Z")
Wouldn’t a woman find a guy who inexplicably started playing a guitar to be a bit desperate or pathetic? Or am I being cynical? What if he started quoting Heidegger, or the like? Anywhat, personally I would go for the guitar playing woman, just because it would seem a bit quirky and unusual, and I find that intriguing, especially since they all rank equally in looks. Note that I wouldn’t find a guitar playing woman to be desperate for attention, since as shown in the OP, it’s not exactly a good tactic with most men. ---
**Author:** ![DogMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@DogMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DogMom)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192/20 "2004-01-15T19:50:20Z")
Me, if I saw a guy whip out a guitar & start playing, I’d probably start laughing, since I’d be picturing that scene from Animal House where Bluto smashes the guy’s guitar against the wall. Now if he could _cook_, that’d be something else again. I don’t. I hate it. Fortunately for me, DogDad is a _fantastic_ cook. > [@kunilou](#): > > That said, being able to play the guitar ranks 0 on my scale of 1-10. Now if this hypothetical woman could look at my car and tell me why the Check Engine light keeps coming on, she’d definitely enhance her chances of being picked. Um. Depends on the age of the car. You might be having a problem with one of the Emissions Modules that Modern AutoEngineering has decided to “bless” us with. As they get older they get REALLY hypersensitive and then they try to tell you your engine is about to blow up into a zillion little polluting pieces when in reality you just drove through a light fog. (They’re set up to detect particulates in your emissions, and as they get older, their particle threshhold seems to go down. So indeed, driving through a fog or a cloud of smoke could set the thing off.) Might want to take it into a place like Auto Zone, though - AZ will check your engine for free, and if that’s it, they’ll tell you that’s all it is. And reset it for you. But sorry, I’m already taken. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-value-men-with-skills-and-such-not-vice-versa/224192.md?page=2)