# Women's Health Protection Act (a pro-choice Senate bill) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282 "2014-07-16T16:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/21 "2014-07-21T17:03:08Z")
**Blaster Master** As far as I know colonoscopies are in fact elective (in that I have ELECTED not to have one). And, as **iiandyiii** has said, if you don’t want children an abortion is not elective. I hope this bill at least puts some attention on the ridiculous requirements on abortion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/22 "2014-07-21T17:06:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wouldn’t this bill work both ways? If abortion clinics have to be regulated exactly the same way as other outpatient clinics, wouldn’t that in many cases create a stricter regulatory climate in some states? For example? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/23 "2014-07-21T17:08:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wouldn’t this bill work both ways? If abortion clinics have to be regulated exactly the same way as other outpatient clinics, wouldn’t that in many cases create a stricter regulatory climate in some states? Possibly, but doubtful as most clinical regulation is set by doctors who understand what health standards are needed, not by intrusive middle-age state senators who want to shame you because you sprained your ankle or caught bronchitis. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/24 "2014-07-21T19:06:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > **Cruz wins the prize for cherry picking facts to best support his argument. When citing our European counterparts, he conveniently ignored that such abortion restrictions are entrenched in progressive public health systems that enable all individuals to access quality, affordable (often free) health care, including comprehensive reproductive healthcare** > > This argument is always a funny insight into the liberal mind. Okay, so because there’s universal health care, it’s okay for a woman to have to ask the government’s permission for an abortion past 12 weeks or so. In that instance, it’s like asking your health insurance company to pre-approve the procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/25 "2014-07-22T00:05:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Something that simultaneously apathizes the anti-choice base. Free miniature American flags? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/26 "2014-07-22T00:07:55Z")
Abortion is usually paid for with cash and in Europe, people can pay for procedures with cash. The restrictions on abortion aren’t just over what the government will cover. It’s whether you can get one at all. That’s why I was scratching my head. I don’t know if abortion clinics are regulated exactly the same as all other outpatient clinics. But if they are regulated more lightly then this bill would impose stiffer regulations on them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/27 "2014-07-22T00:11:08Z")
And BTW, I would fully support this bill, and I think quite a few Republicans would vote for it too, if it mandated that abortion clinics are inspected regularly just like other outpatient clinics. After what happened in Pennsylvania, where a clinic wasn’t inspected in 30 years, this should be a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/28 "2014-07-22T00:15:33Z")
Having read the text, it does not require abortion clinics to meet the same standards as outpatient clinics. Exposing this as the politically motivated farce it is. Let’s work together on this. Make abortion clinics follow the same regulations as other outpatient clinics, no more, no less, and require inspections as frequently as other outpatient clinics get inspected. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/29 "2014-07-22T00:26:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Having read the text, it does not require abortion clinics to meet the same standards as outpatient clinics. Exposing this as the politically motivated farce it is. > > Let’s work together on this. Make abortion clinics follow the same regulations as other outpatient clinics, no more, no less, and require inspections as frequently as other outpatient clinics get inspected. If you (or anyone) can get actual Republicans in Congress on board with this kind of compromise, I’d be very pleasantly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/30 "2014-07-22T00:28:26Z")
I don’t think Democrats would get on board either. This is a political bill, not a policy bill. These bills aren’t supposed to pass. If the Republicans agreed to pass this bill, Reid would just put something in there that they couldn’t say yes to. I’m not condemning the Democrats here, this is just what majority parties do during election years. Republicans had their stupid flag burning amendment when they got desperate in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![faithxo84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@faithxo84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/faithxo84)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/31 "2014-07-23T20:04:08Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Further, I think if abortions become too common, even if they’re not a bad thing in and of themselves, they may be symptomatic of a larger social issue. For example, I’m also in favor of legalization of several currently controlled substances, but just like with alcohol, which isn’t inherently wrong either, some people can use it safely and some can be a danger to themselves and others if they overuse it. That said, I’m not sure exactly what the line for rare should be, and what it means if we cross it–maybe it’s a sign that access to other forms of birth control or education aren’t as available as it should be. Still, I would say we should probably take notice if suddenly the rate were to, say, double, and it would probably be worth investigating the reasons why. I agree that other forms of birth control and education aren’t as available as they should be. This would cut down on abortion. But “overuse” of abortion shouldn’t be anyone’s concern except for the women who are getting abortions. I have a friend who got an abortion and it did affect her. It was a huge decision that had an impact on her life. But as she’ll say to anyone who decides to condemn her for her choice: Having a kid at her age would have been worse. Much worse. More crying, more sleepless nights, more depression, fewer opportunities, etc. Even if you believe in personhood for fetuses, which is a different argument, the argument that we’re “doing this for the mother’s own health” is ridiculous. She doesn’t regret her decision even when it makes her sad. Taking that decision away from her would have made her life worse, even if she was using abortion as birth control after the fact. (She didn’t use birth control because Texas is horribly lacking when it comes to educating kids about sex, both in schools and in families). This desire to punish her and make her pay for her bad decision doesn’t help anything at all. In my opinion, punitively taking abortion away as an option is a malicious act. The argument that it allows irresponsible people to “get away with something” is reprehensible, much more so than her original lapse in judgement. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/32 "2014-07-23T21:02:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Having read the text, it does not require abortion clinics to meet the same standards as outpatient clinics. Exposing this as the politically motivated farce it is. > > Let’s work together on this. Make abortion clinics follow the same regulations as other outpatient clinics, no more, no less, and require inspections as frequently as other outpatient clinics get inspected. Why should that be the standard? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/33 "2014-07-23T23:46:34Z")
Because if you classify abortion as a safe medical procedure, then you should regulate it the way you do procedures of similar safety and complexity. If this means less regulation of other medical facilities, that’s fine too. But they should be equivalent, and this bill insists that they should be, or at least that abortion clinics should not be regulated MORE than other outpatient clinics. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/34 "2014-07-24T00:13:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because if you classify abortion as a safe medical procedure, then you should regulate it the way you do procedures of similar safety and complexity. . . . No…because it really isn’t exactly comparable to anything else. Name another surgical procedure that has the same public/private conflicts regarding privacy, “another life at stake,” etc. There just aren’t any. Yes, it should be regulated for safety in most ways. Licensed doctors, antiseptic conditions, etc. But…this has been used as a weapon, where opposing legislation has been intended, not to make the procedure safe, but to make it more difficult to obtain. Tell me about another surgical procedure for which that is the case. (Well, okay, there are actually a couple… Don’t want to highjack the thread. nm.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/35 "2014-07-24T00:20:53Z")
Regulations by their very nature make life more difficult for the regulated. And I agree that Republicans have used abortion regulation as a weapon. This is not actually a new tactic: see Democrats and payday lenders. Personally, I think Congress should pass a law banning predatory regulation by legislatures or Congress itself and empower the courts to overturn such regulations as bills of attainder. However, the flip side is that the Gosnell case revealed that the fact that abortion is a political hot potato also causes abortion clinics to be poorly regulated, or not regulated at all in practice, since inspections are never performed, and complaints by customers or whistleblowers rarely acted upon. Abortion clinics should be inspected at least as often as your average tattoo parlor. Democrats could have taken this opportunity, given the fact that both Gosnell and Republican efforts to attack abortion clinics are in the news, to create a national standard, to prevent Republicans from trying to kill the abortion business and to prevent Democrats from endangering womens’ health in the interest of protecting reproductive rights. Instead, they went for a blatantly political bill. But again, I’m not condemning them, this is what majority parties in the Senate do when faced with the threat of imminent minority status. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/36 "2014-07-24T00:36:55Z")
Just do what Canada does. It seems to be working. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/37 "2014-07-24T10:06:13Z")
I’d imagine in places where abortion is not a hot button issue it’s regulated properly, although Canada is an extreme pro-choice outlier. I was thinking more along the lines of continental European countries, where abortion is limited after the first trimester. Interesting that in some ways, Europe is pretty right-wing by our standards. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/38 "2014-07-24T10:22:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Yes, it should be regulated for safety in most ways. Licensed doctors, antiseptic conditions, etc. But…this has been used as a weapon, where opposing legislation has been intended, not to make the procedure safe, but to make it more difficult to obtain. Tell me about another surgical procedure for which that is the case. I believe some states’ laws require clinics to meet surgical center standards even if all they do is give the patient pills. The patient isn’t actually going to have an abortion at the facility at all, but the hallways still need to accommodate two gurneys passing, etc. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/39 "2014-07-24T12:14:48Z")
If it’s just a place to get RU-486 or something, that’s fine I guess. But if abortions are performed, having room for gurneys is kinda important. And if it’s not, it’s not important for other outpatient clinics. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282/40 "2014-07-24T13:42:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just do what Canada does. It seems to be working. What does Canada do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-health-protection-act-a-pro-choice-senate-bill/693282.md?page=3)