# "Women's Rights" blog says: virtual sexual assault should be a criminal act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376 "2010-01-25T17:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/61 "2010-01-26T21:39:45Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > Might be worth considering stalking scenarios rather than ‘everyone trashtalking scenarios’. People seem to keep thinking this is about single statements or generally broadcast statements rather than targetted repeated patterns of behaviour. > > Eg the person continually seeks the person out and contacts them. While they can leave the game to escape the person ‘stalking’ them, that argument could be applied to any out of home stalking, they dont have to go to the pub, shops in that area, facebook etc etc. It comes down to whether virtual spaces start to be considered public spaces or not, or that owners of the spaces have some obligation similar to bars or the like. Except in the virtual spaces I can “block” you so your (general “you”…not you in particular) idiocy literally never reaches me. The best you can do is run around me. In many cases then there is the ability to choose a different server (petition to be moved). Not always possible but you can evade that way. You could also, possibly, create a new avatar. For a thing like this I am not sure there is any real loss except letting friends know your new name. And, as mentioned many times, let the GMs know. In real life police will be slow to stop someone from being a jerk to you because you say they are being a jerk. Online the GMs have records of what was said, can witness behavior and, generally, are not tolerant. They will kick/ban the guy. None of the above can be done in real life but can be online. Also, not sure an online venue is truly “public”. You pay someone else for the privilege. Their place, their rules. You agree to those rules when you sign-up. If you do not like it then it is up to you to leave. You do not have a “right” to be there. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/62 "2010-01-26T21:52:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Also, not sure an online venue is truly “public”. You pay someone else for the privilege. Their place, their rules. You agree to those rules when you sign-up. If you do not like it then it is up to you to leave. You do not have a “right” to be there. I guess it really is like subscribing to HBO. If you’re upset that you sometimes see nudity, don’t subscribe to HBO. Otherwise, quit whining. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/63 "2010-01-26T21:56:26Z")
Part of the problem with this is that if it became legal, an MMO wouldn’t be able to have a right to exist. All sorts of anti-social behavior that video games provide an outlet for could fall under the laws of the outside jurisdiction and it would basically destroy the multiplayer online game industry. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/64 "2010-01-27T01:10:39Z")
To reiterate - this didn’t take place in an MMO. Playstation Home is more like a 3d chat room with aggressive advertising. Wiki calls it a “community based social gaming networking service”, which is a better description than I gave. It’s a social networking site. Here’s the website (but Home itself is only accessible via the Playstation 3). [http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/Home](http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/Home) Here’s the latest post from the Home Blog - it includes a video demonstrating the new fishing mini-game (your catches are automatically mounted on the wall of your apartment.) It also previews the new team jerseys from EA Sports and announces that new Assassin’s Creed2 items will be added to the Home Mall this week. [http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/01/this-week-in-playstation-home-waterfall-terrace-personal-space-ncaa-football-jerseys-loads-more/](http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/01/this-week-in-playstation-home-waterfall-terrace-personal-space-ncaa-football-jerseys-loads-more/) And here is the Playstation Home Terms of Service: [http://manuals.playstation.net/document/ps3-eula/psn/e/e\_pshome-tosua\_en.html](http://manuals.playstation.net/document/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_pshome-tosua_en.html) Item 2: You must at all times act lawfully and with respect towards other users. We are not responsible for the behaviour of other users but please let us know if you become aware of any unlawful or inappropriate behaviour in PlayStation®Home. So that’s Sony’s position on the matter. I’m sure if you asked them, they would stress agressively that sexual harassment and virtual rape are not welcome in Home and are not a core part of the experience (even though reality would differ from that party line.) I don’t think one could sue Sony on the grounds that harassment took place in their online venue. Well, I suppose anyone can sue anybody. But Sony (or Blizzard, or Turbine) employees wouldn’t be arrested, anymore than random disney employees get arrested if a guest harasses another death. I don’t think it would be the end of all MMO’s to make online harassment subject to other harassment laws. I do think the virtual and remote nature of it should be reflected with no more than misdemeanor charges. The real problem of course would be on behalf of the prosecutors trying to prove harassment in a game with no ‘witnesses’ and nothing be recorded. I can see that trying anything but the most egregious cases would be hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/65 "2010-01-27T01:28:44Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think one could sue Sony on the grounds that harassment took place in their online venue. Well, I suppose anyone can sue anybody. But Sony (or Blizzard, or Turbine) employees wouldn’t be arrested, anymore than random disney employees get arrested if a guest harasses another death. I don’t think it would be the end of all MMO’s to make online harassment subject to other harassment laws. I do think the virtual and remote nature of it should be reflected with no more than misdemeanor charges. Without a doubt it would be the death knell for MMOs. A clever lawyer would argue that there is no difference between Sony’s environment and an environment like Eve Online. > [@](#): > > The real problem of course would be on behalf of the prosecutors trying to prove harassment in a game with no ‘witnesses’ and nothing be recorded. I can see that trying anything but the most egregious cases would be hopeless. Considering that in online environments EVERYTHING is recorded, I don’t see why you think this is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/66 "2010-01-27T01:52:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Without a doubt it would be the death knell for MMOs. A clever lawyer would argue that there is no difference between Sony’s environment and an environment like Eve Online. Wait, not following you here. I’m saying that if harassing people in video games were illegal, one could arrest the harasser, but not the person who owned the online venue. If I was planning a murder and met my hitman in Lord of the Rings Online so we could discuss the details, we could be arrested but Turbine employees wouldn’t be, even if in-game chat logs were part of the evidence. And again, MMO’s would continue even if people used them to contact their dealer say (I’m sure this has happened.) > [@](#): > > Considering that in online environments EVERYTHING is recorded, I don’t see why you think this is a problem. The chat log might be recorded, but there’s no video recording for every single person in the game. So if you get a sequence like this: [CuteGrrl]: What a pretty waterfall! [4ssb4nd1t0]: \ [4ssb4nd1t0] :\ [CuteGrrl]: OMG You’re such a perv!! [4ssb4nd1t0] :\ [CuteGrrl]: Help! I’m being harassed! It might be hard to really prove that the two characters were anywhere near each other, that Mr. [4ssb4nd1t0] was “crouching” at [CuteGrrrl] or even aware that she was in the vincinty. It won’t always be so cut and dry of course. I’m just saying convicting someone for an action in-game could be hard since the action is only being ‘recorded’ in a text log. ---
**Author:** ![Sanity\_Challenged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Sanity\_Challenged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanity_Challenged)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/67 "2010-01-27T02:16:19Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > And here is the Playstation Home Terms of Service: > [PlayStation®Home Terms of Use](http://manuals.playstation.net/document/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_pshome-tosua_en.html) > > Item 2: > You must at all times act lawfully and with respect towards other users. We are not responsible for the behaviour of other users but please let us know if you become aware of any unlawful or inappropriate behaviour in PlayStation®Home. > > So that’s Sony’s position on the matter. I’m sure if you asked them, they would stress agressively that sexual harassment and virtual rape are not welcome in Home and are not a core part of the experience (even though reality would differ from that party line.) Some additional quotes from the Term of Service: > [@](#): > > 6. **We cannot monitor the whole of PlayStation®Home and make no commitment to do so**. However, we reserve the right\*\* in our sole discretion\*\*, to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PlayStation®Home (including in public spaces, club houses and apartments) and to remove any content from PlayStation®Home **at our sole discretion** , all without further notice. [snip] If you experience any unacceptable or inappropriate behaviour while in PlayStation®Home or wish to report any other breach of the Terms of Service or Terms of Use, please let us know using PlayStation®Home’s grief reporting facility. > 7.We reserve the right to suspend or cancel PlayStation®Home or your access to it at any time **in our absolute discretion**. If we believe that you are in breach of any of these Terms of Use or any other relevant terms, we may terminate your participation in PlayStation®Home and/or your PSN account without paying any compensation to you. In other words, when you agree to the Terms of Service, you not only agree to not act like a jerk, but you are also voluntarily consenting to be subjected to rule-breaking jerks who will only face consequences if the relevant authorities have the time and the inclination to dole them out. If you don’t agree with Sony being the sole authority of their virtual community, or with the stringency with which they pursue their undesirables, then don’t agree to the ToS, and don’t log in. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/68 "2010-01-27T16:29:37Z")
I disagree with your interpretation. There are about 38 million Playstation Home accounts. Sony is not going to hire 100 million babysitters to personally monitor each account in real time, 24/7 and proactively prevent any trouble. I don’t believe for a minute that the part you quoted means Sony is saying Home participants just have to be cool with assbanditry. Sony specifically says that people should drop a dime on the jerkwads and send them to their ominously named “grief reporting facility.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376/69 "2010-01-27T16:51:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Considering that in online environments EVERYTHING is recorded, I don’t see why you think this is a problem. Bwahahaha! You’re killing me! _\_ I jumped through a gate and my ship blew up. Serious bug there man! _\_ Our logs show nothing. _\_ C’mon, surely you can see the time my ship died and note it happened 0.5 seconds after jumping into a new system! That is just not possible unless it is a bug! _\_ Our logs show nothing. _\_ Are you even a human? _\_ Our logs show nothing. _\_😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-rights-blog-says-virtual-sexual-assault-should-be-a-criminal-act/526376.md?page=3)