# Women's world cup 2019 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246 "2019-06-09T11:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/61 "2019-06-12T18:40:00Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That has nothing to do with sportsmanship. They’re purposely trying to burn the clock to prevent the other team from scoring. Going to pass or trying to score would just give the other team a better chance. I said up big, late in the game- say up 30 with four to go, on the opponents 20. Zero chance at a comeback. You call run plays up the middle as these are the easiest to stop, especially when you know they’re coming, in hopes they will stop you and you don’t score again. Most teams will eschew field goals in these situations as that close it would be a 95% chance at more points, versus a run on fourth that should be stopped and result in no more points. Late in the game, outcome still in the air, different story. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/62 "2019-06-12T18:56:06Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Do you really believe in a group with Chile and Thailand, the US has a chance in a billion at not advancing, and that GD will be required? Chile has as much chance at getting a result vs. the US as Thailand did. Anything can happen in the Men’s World Cup because all of the teams there are of a minimum quality- Thailand has no business on the same field as top women’s teams, and is only there as FIFA wants to make the women’s a true world’s cup as well. Since you apparently have a hard time understanding, I’ll say it slowly. First - place - is - better - than - second -place. Will the US need GD to make top 2? No. Will they need it to win the group? Maybe. Winning the group gives them a better chance at winning the whole thing. How should they have played, in your mind? You already said keepaway is insulting. They weren’t aggressively going into tackles or gegenpressing. If Thailand basically lets you take free shots from 12 yards out, and you don’t, how is that different than keepaway? I’m done with this argument. It’s just ignoring reality. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/63 "2019-06-12T19:02:12Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t even think anyone cared that Australia beat American Samoa 31-0. Some of us cared very much, those boomerang slingers will rue the day. We are just biding our time but our revenge will be savage. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/64 "2019-06-12T19:12:37Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Would love to see France or England stomp them now, just for this. Oh, please! If you stink that bad, you shouldn’t be on the field. This is the freaking World Cup, not a children’s league. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/65 "2019-06-12T19:23:16Z")
Snarky\_Kong, You either don’t read, or don’t comprehend, or don’t know soccer- you are one million percent wrong regardless. To put it in simple terms, _we do not know how the rest of the first round will go, so we do not know who the US would play if first, vs. who they would play if they finished second._ Not the draw, but as an example, lets say the second place team in the US group is slated to play the first place team in a group where the top two teams are France and Guam. The first place team in the US group plays the second place team, France or Guam. Now, everyone would expect France to be first, Guam second, and the US would want to finish first to play Guam in the next round, as they have a better chance at beating Guam vs. France. Follow so far? Then let’s say something unusual (but far from uncommon) happens, and France has a bad week, and finished second, Guam first. Would the US really, in this case, want to have finished first in their group, when that means now they will have to play France, when, if they had finished second, they would play Guam? I would link dozens of cites where this exact type thing has happened, and there has been a big hullabaloo about team “trying to lose” to face a more advantageous opponent in the next round, but I don’t think it would help. Actually at least once per major tournament its a talking point. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/66 "2019-06-12T19:36:22Z")
not long ago in Olympics badminton there was a situation where people tried to blatantly lose a game to get better seeding. I believe the outcome of that was the people got kicked out of the Olympic tourney. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/67 "2019-06-12T19:37:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Since you apparently have a hard time understanding, I’ll say it slowly. > > First - place - is - better - than - second -place. > > Will the US need GD to make top 2? No. Will they need it to win the group? Maybe. Winning the group gives them a better chance at winning the whole thing. > > How should they have played, in your mind? You already said keepaway is insulting. They weren’t aggressively going into tackles or gegenpressing. If Thailand basically lets you take free shots from 12 yards out, and you don’t, how is that different than keepaway? > > I’m done with this argument. It’s just ignoring reality. I said three to four times upthread, I am fine with 12-0. I vehemently disagree with 13-0, as the last goal came in stoppage time when teams routinely stop going for goal when up by at least three, regardless of team, regardless of type match. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/68 "2019-06-12T19:38:17Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > …To put it in simple terms, _we do not know how the rest of the first round will go, so we do not know who the US would play if first, vs. who they would play if they finished second._… Are you arguing that in any random group, it is equally likely that the 2nd place team will be better than the 1st place? I hope not, because it’s an asinine argument. So if we assume the 1st place team is more likely to be better than the 2nd place, saying _but we just don’t know_ is ridiculous. Sure, maybe there’s an exception in this case. But until you do know, you play like the 1st place team will be better. I honestly don’t understand why you continue to dig on this. My first reaction when I saw the score was “well, that was rude.” But once I considered how seeding works in the tournament, I changed my opinion. There’s no shame in that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/69 "2019-06-12T19:44:07Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Most (all?) sports have certain unwritten “rules” that apply in these sorts of situations. We all know, for example, that in baseball you’re not supposed to steal bases (among other things) if you’re leading big late in the game. In high school football, it seems like every season there’s a story or two about a league or school punishing a coach for running up the score. I understand that running up the score is viewed as inappropriate in many other sports (and perfectly appropriate in some). It seems like it’s a constant debate over whether or not running up the score (or, more generally, the proper behavior when you’re leading by a large margin) is “ethical” or “professional” in men’s sports. Those who bleat about “running up the score” are mostly the losing side’s coaches (motivated largely by job security concerns), ninnies in the reporter/commentator set and some fans of the losing team. The players (who supposedly are being “humiliated”) don’t generally seem to care. As long as you’re giving substitutes a chance to play, let 'em play hard and enjoy themselves, never mind the “unwritten rules”. Stopping games when one team is deemed too far ahead just denies players a chance to get on the field. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/70 "2019-06-12T19:45:43Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Are you arguing that in any random group, it is equally likely that the 2nd place team will be better than the 1st place? I hope not, because it’s an asinine argument. > > So if we assume the 1st place team is more likely to be better than the 2nd place, saying _but we just don’t know_ is ridiculous. Sure, maybe there’s an exception in this case. But until you do know, you play like the 1st place team will be better. > > I honestly don’t understand why you continue to dig on this. My first reaction when I saw the score was “well, that was rude.” But once I considered how seeding works in the tournament, I changed my opinion. There’s no shame in that. well if you watch soccer once every four years, you wouldn’t get it. To keep from embarrassing yourself further to those in the know, I wont do your work for you, google any combination of soccer, cup, lose, purpose. Ok, I’ll give you one, would love for you to read, and try and refute. No apology necessary when you realize you are wrong, it happens. > **[Will England and Belgium both try to lose? They might be crazy not to](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/worldcup/2018/06/26/england-belgium-world-cup-knockout/734919002/)** > > Both teams have already clinched passage to the World Cup's knockout round, but whoever wins Group G will face an uphill climb. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/71 "2019-06-12T19:57:14Z")
And I said nothing of the sort, that a first place team should not in general be expected to be better than a second place team, or that any team after game one in a cup tourney should be looking to finish second with the expected outcome that an inferior team will finish first in another, that would be asinine, agree. I said depending on the outcomes of other games, the US MAY regret this act of poor sportsmanship, IF it turned out a more favorable opponent would have fallen to them had they not gone for goal differential in this game, and finish first as a result- THAT would be funny. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/72 "2019-06-12T20:12:30Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Snarky\_Kong, > > You either don’t read, or don’t comprehend, or don’t know soccer- you are one million percent wrong regardless. > > To put it in simple terms, \*we do not know how the rest of the first round will go, so we do not know who the US … Are you more likely to play a better team if you finish first or finish second? You and I and everyone else knows the answer to that. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/73 "2019-06-12T20:20:52Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > well if you watch soccer once every four years, you wouldn’t get it. > > To keep from embarrassing yourself further to those in the know, I wont do your work for you, google any combination of soccer, cup, lose, purpose. > > Ok, I’ll give you one, would love for you to read, and try and refute. No apology necessary when you realize you are wrong, it happens. > > [World Cup 2018: England, Belgium may be better off losing](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/worldcup/2018/06/26/england-belgium-world-cup-knockout/734919002/) Ah yes, as we all know, counterexamples prove that probability is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/74 "2019-06-12T20:24:59Z")
Jeez, here is my quote that you are not getting- _GD absolutely could matter in deciding first with Sweden, but as you know, depending on how other results go, the US may actually prefer to play the team they would play if second vs. first, so there is a possibility they will regret the excessive goal differential- a very good chance, happens all the time._ Nowhere does this state or imply that a second place team normally would be better than a first place team. Nowhere does it state a team should be expecting wonky results in other brackets, and therefore try for second, with the expectation there will be upsets and they want to be in second when the upsets come. The _only_ thing it says is, The US chose goal differential over class. And that I think it would be funny, ironic, poetic justice, etc. IF the US wins the group due solely to goal differential, IF other groups don’t go as planned, and the US as a result plays a harder opponent in the next round, due to their lack of class. Hoping other groups don’t play out as expected and their lack of class actually hurts them, not helps. Not saying its likely, not saying it will happen, just fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/75 "2019-06-12T20:27:13Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Ah yes, as we all know, counterexamples prove that probability is bullshit. Again, no one was talking likelihood, probability, any of that, I merely said I _hope_ other groups don’t go as planned and that the US suffers for finishing first, as punishment for their lack of good sportsmanship, nothing else stated or implied. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/76 "2019-06-12T20:38:13Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > All I know from watching soccer my whole life it is a common practice to not try and score in stoppage when you are up by 3 That’s just not true. Most matches are league matches, and GD is important. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/77 "2019-06-12T23:41:19Z")
I rarely come to the Game Room but thought this would be… interesting (I wasn’t disappointed). I have two kids who got their college paid for by playing D1 soccer (one men’s, one women’s), and know a few of their friends who are currently playing professionally. Pulling back and/or playing possession (term used more often than “keep away” but the same thing) gets less and less common the higher level you go, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in a big tournament where goal differential can decide a winner unless they cap the differential at 4 or something. This is the World Cup… it doesn’t get any higher level than this. They did absolutely nothing wrong. They were continuing to play their best and not get out of the groove as you would want a team to do in a tournament like this. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/78 "2019-06-13T02:00:27Z")
7/4/18 Women’s Soccer. Thailand 11, Cambodia 0 5/27/18 Women’s Soccer, Thailand 13, Indonesia 0 I can’t imagine they’re particularly concerned about blowouts. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/79 "2019-06-13T02:50:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Nobody gave Germany shit for beating Saudi Arabia 7-0 in 2002. 8-0. 😉 > [@Velocity](#): > > During Germany’s famous 7-1 crushing of Brazil in the 2014 men’s World Cup, the Germans purposefully dialed down their attack in the second half and also celebrated much less. That was a knockout game, not group stage, but yes there was more sportsmanship there. Eh, Hummels said that part about dialing back later, but I dunno…Germany was still taking good shots in the second half. > [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > 89th, 90th minute is gray area. All I know from watching soccer my whole life it is a common practice to not try and score in stoppage when you are up by 3, let alone 12. That is so badly untrue that I wonder if you have ever watched league play. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246/80 "2019-06-13T03:10:53Z")
An example I’ll give is with a game my daughter was playing for an ECNL club and we got way up (4 or 5 to 0) and we started to play possession. After a while we suddenly turned it back on and started scoring again. We (parents) were a bit confused and we ended up with a huge to nothing win. After the game our coach told us that the other team’s coach came over to him and said he would rather have his girls learn to play against a better team than to be embarrassed by a team that obviously wasn’t trying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womens-world-cup-2019/835246.md?page=5)