# womyn **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238 "2003-10-24T02:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/1 "2003-10-24T02:36:27Z")
I heard once that a group of women wanted the word “woman” changed to “womyn” because it would make the word more feminine. Is this true? If it is, do some people still spell the word tyhat way? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_Sandwhich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/91b2a8/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_Sandwhich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_Sandwhich)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/2 "2003-10-24T02:49:49Z")
Here about the matter. The thing to keep in mind is that there is no central body regulating language. There are academics and dictionary editors who do have some influence, but they cannot simply snap their fingers and say “Alright folks, from now on the word is spelled with a ‘Y.’” ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/3 "2003-10-24T02:51:19Z")
IIRC the reason given was that someone wanted to avoid the “men” part of “women.” Or the “man” part of “woman.” Related to the idea that one is a “mail carrier” and not a “mailman.” Or some such thing. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/4 "2003-10-24T04:06:11Z")
Womyn. See also: wimmin, grrl and femstruation :rolleyes:. Filed under: stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Eaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tom\_Eaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Eaton)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/5 "2003-10-24T04:12:50Z")
The only times I’ve ever seen it spelled “womyn” is as a joke by men seeking to portray feminists as fruitcakes. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/6 "2003-10-24T04:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tom Eaton \* > \*\*The only times I’ve ever seen it spelled “womyn” is as a joke by men seeking to portray feminists as fruitcakes. \*\* Rest assured it has been used quite seriously by some ardent feminists, whom I can most kindly describe as humorless. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/7 "2003-10-24T05:20:26Z")
Please tell me there are some [Uncle Bonsai](http://www.yellowtailrecords.com/lyrics/lyr_myn.html#womyn) fans lurking about. **Robot Arm** , you still around? ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/8 "2003-10-24T19:03:15Z")
“Look…they spelled it wrong.” “Cool…stupid chicks put out!” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/9 "2003-10-25T01:52:47Z")
Just a few parts of the degenderizing-language effort succeeded. Most people now what “Ms.” means, and the person who brings your mail is officially a letter carrier. The rest of it, um, well, I guess it didn’t “peter out.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/10 "2003-10-25T07:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moe \* > Please tell me there are some [Uncle Bonsai](http://www.yellowtailrecords.com/lyrics/lyr_myn.html#womyn) fans lurking about. **Robot Arm** , you still around? Yeah, I’m still here. I think I posted that same link when this subject came up in the pit a while ago. Considering the variety of topics (from K-Mart to Penis Envy), I always thought Uncle Bonsai would be a natural favorite among dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/11 "2003-10-25T07:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AskNott \* > \*\*The rest of it, um, well, I guess it didn’t “peter out.” 🙂 \*\* Nitpick: Actually, it did peter out, as to ‘peter out’ is to fizzle out, or fade away. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/12 "2003-10-25T07:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > \*\*Related to the idea that one is a “mail carrier” and not a “mailman.” \*\* Mailmyn? ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/13 "2003-10-25T14:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Robot Arm \* > \*\*Yeah, I’m still here. > > I think I posted that same link when this subject came up in the pit a while ago. Considering the variety of topics (from K-Mart to Penis Envy), I always thought Uncle Bonsai would be a natural favorite among dopers. \*\* Yeah, I must admit I pretty surprised that this doesn’t seem to be the case. [end hijack] ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/14 "2003-10-25T14:47:05Z")
I’ve seen it used seriously. It grates on my eyes, if that makes any sense. I don’t like the sort of (from what I know, made up entirely) etymology that leads to things like “womyn.” I’ve also seen “wimmin.” And “wymyn.” God help us all. Though I am actually all for phrases like “mail carrier” as opposed to “mailman” or “mailwoman,” since sometimes you don’t know which you’re going to get. Our regular mailman quit or something a couple of weeks ago and we get different people all the time. ---
**Author:** ![GregE625](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b77776/32.png) [@GregE625](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GregE625)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/15 "2003-10-25T14:48:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*Nitpick: Actually, it did peter out, as to ‘peter out’ is to fizzle out, or fade away. \*\* Nitpick back: I think his point was that “peter” has male conotations, and he couldn’t think of a genderless or female equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/16 "2003-10-25T15:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*Nitpick: Actually, it did peter out, as to ‘peter out’ is to fizzle out, or fade away. \*\* Heyyy! Let’s give a big hand to **Tengu,** who earns our first **Whhhooooooossshhhh** of the day! Congratulations!😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/17 "2003-10-25T16:43:53Z")
While I think changing the spelling of “woman/women” is besides the point, I do think it’s silly to dismiss any attempt to use gender neutral terms like firefighter or mail carrier, or using a male term for a group of people including women (“policemen”). Male is not the default gender or sex. Ther master himself speaks on a related subject, finding a gender neutral term for his/her > [@](#): > > For what it’s worth, you hear less and less of the old argument that “he” (and “man,” for that matter) somehow “includes” women. Common sense suggests, and studies bear out, that when you see supposedly generic masculine terms you think first of males. But let’s not pretend that the elimination of such problems would mean the end of sexist speech. As writer Deborah Cameron points out, the sentence “The man went berserk and killed his neighbor’s wife” is unobjectionable on its surface. But stop to think: why “his neighbor’s wife” instead of “one of his neighbors”? [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_245b.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_245b.html) ---
**Author:** ![shaneomac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@shaneomac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shaneomac)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womyn/209238/18 "2003-10-26T06:26:21Z")
For what it’s worth if feminists object to anything in the word woman/women it should be “wo” not “man/men” woman: n. 1 .adult female human being adj. female From old english wifman, from wif, wife, + man, human being.