# Wonder Woman 1984 (WW84) Seen it \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [December 26, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928 "2020-12-26T02:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/261 "2021-01-05T23:00:42Z")
As long as we’re adding scenes to the movie, I had an idea about how to upgrade Diana’s powers from “jumping really far” to “flying.” During an action scene, Steve observes her making some improbable jump, like catching an escaping helicopter. Being a pilot, realizes that her trajectory doesn’t make sense if she’s jumping. Her trajectory only makes sense for powered flight. After the scene, he asks her how far she can jump, and she’s like, “I never tested it, I just try and make the jump, and usually succeed.” “Try jumping somewhere for me.” “Where?” “Half a mile straight up.” Cue gender-swapped flying scene from _Superman: The Movie_. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/262 "2021-01-05T23:05:05Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I don’t like to tut-tut other people’s professions that I’m sure are very difficult and all that, but these right here make me think even less of the WW84 screenwriters. Or maybe echoreply and gdave are just super good. Well, to be fair, those (especially mine) are just brief plot notes. Notice how I just kind of breezed by exactly _how_ Diana “accidentally” foils the robbers other than one kinda vague example. Adding notes like that is a _lot_ easier than creating the plot in the first place, and then writing all of the actual dialogue and action cues and so on. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/263 "2021-01-05T23:12:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Cue gender-swapped flying scene from _Superman: The Movie_ Only if it comes with Steve doing some odd free verse poetry. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/264 "2021-01-06T00:46:46Z")
Its these things that show that WW84 had the right ‘pieces’, but like a 4 year old, just can’t put it together so keeps jumbling it up. Very similar to the problems that almost every DC movie seems to have - and something the MCU movies have no problem with. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/265 "2021-01-06T00:47:49Z")
regaurdless - the idea is still right - those details are not the critical part - just _how_ the scene can be handled much better is enough to show it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/266 "2021-01-19T18:16:54Z")
Watched it last night. I had pretty low expectations based on what I heard but somehow it failed to even meet those. One thing that really annoyed me from a story-telling perspective: What’s the point of giving WW an armor with wings if she already figured out how to fly? The wings serve no purpose. Here’s my elevator pitch to make that whole business better: 1. Have her use the armor to fly 2. The wings get destroyed while she’s in the air 3. She starts panicking because she’s way up in the air with nothing the grab on with her lasso 4. The voiceover from Steve comes on talking about wind and air and she figures out how to fly ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/267 "2021-01-19T18:24:55Z")
‘I am a leaf on the wind’ What would you rather me say “oh no, oh no, we’re all going to die?” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/268 "2021-01-19T19:01:14Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > One thing that really annoyed me from a story-telling perspective: What’s the point of giving WW an armor with wings if she already figured out how to fly? Action figures. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/269 "2021-05-24T01:12:01Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > We have to establish Wonder Woman as she exists in 1984, and her character arc. And get the Wishstone. And Max Lord’s character arc. And Barbara Minverva’s character arc. And establish Barbara’s and Diana’s friendship. And Barbara’s and Max’s relationship (that the movie seems to forget about halfway through). _And_ the return of Steve Trevor, and his relationship with Diana. And all of that _after_ a lengthy opening sequence on Themiscyra that doesn’t really directly tie into the plot (and has its own continuity issues). The result is _none_ of the plotlines or character arcs get enough time. > > There’s also a _lot_ of Idiot Plotting. The Smithsonian keeps display aircraft out on the tarmac, flight ready, and _fully fueled_ ? And a two seat jet trainer has enough fuel to fly directly from Washington, D.C. to Cairo? _And back_ ? Yeah, and they waste what- 10-15 minutes- introducing young Diana to no real purpose i could figure. And sure Steve is a wonder Pilot, but a jet? And no trainer can do that distance. > [@gdave](#): > > Oh, and one bit early on bugged me. The four robbers in the mall. How did Wonder Woman know the two inside men were involved? Magic? And the world would be totally fucked up even if everyone renounced their wishes- which they ain’t gonna do anyway. Zack delivers another serving of crap. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I did like the Lynda Carter cameo at the end. Yes! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/270 "2021-05-24T01:23:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The “introducing Steve Trevor to the modern world” sequence is absolutely adorable, and a nice parallel to the “introducing Diana to London” scene in the first movie Yeah, that was pretty good. But they had escalators back then, also fireworks. wiki " _Seeberger teamed with Otis in 1899, and together they produced the first commercial escalator. It won first prize at the 1900 Paris [Exposition Universelle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposition_Universelle_(1900))._ > [@Mahaloth](#): > > - Wonder Woman \<–the only actually quality movie > - Birds of Prey \<—Just saw this one and it was cheesy, but cute > - Man of Steel \<6/10 would be my ranking > - Wonder Woman 1984 > - Shazam > - Suicide Squad > - Aquaman \<–this is where the hate begins for me. This movie was terrible. > - Batman Vs Superman \<–Ugh. > - Justice League \<–Wow, what a mess. Totally terrible. 1. Wonder Woman 2. Shazam 3 Man of Steel 3. Justice league, tied with Aquaman 6 Batman vs Supes 7.Suicide Squad (really bad plot but some good acting) tied with WW 1984 9 The Harley Quinn film. 1 & 2 were the only good ones. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/271 "2021-05-24T01:42:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s not “mistaken” to be bothered by Steve Trevor knowing how to fly a modern jet, and that jet taking him halfway around the world on a single tank of gas. You’ve just got a different line on where your suspension of disbelief breaks than some other people. And you know, his _body_ likely had a passport. No reason to think it did not. > [@RickJay](#): > > The mall scene gives the movie a lot of its goofy, comic book feel right from the get-go. I loved it, and would absolutely have left it in, though having it AFTER a few of the “Diana alone” bits would have been cool. It also paces the movie better, since there is no other action, except for the opening action scenes, for over an hour to start the movie. > > All the scenes in Thermoscyria (sp?) are boring. They’re boring in this movie and they were boring in WW, too. Yeah, the Mall scene kinda worked. But not the magic island scene. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/272 "2021-05-24T03:27:52Z")
It was simply awful. I didn’t get anywhere near finishing it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/273 "2021-05-24T04:58:39Z")
Now that the thread has been reopened, for those interested, the movie analysis site _A Closer Look_, made a video arguing that WW1984 goes beyond merely being an awful film because it actually _harms_ the audience by trying to sell a negative moral lesson ([link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7Pc9C7G4I?t=600)). It’s a 2-hour analysis (and review), so I’ll give the TL;DW version. He argues that even if the moral of the film is not to be greedy and/or not to just wish for things to fall into your lap without effort, it’s done in such a ham-fisted way, that it ends up basically implying that self-improvement itself is inherently bad; that we all need to stay in our respective lanes and not dream of more. And that this is a terrible message, particularly for children or adolescents to see. I broadly agree with him (how could you not; he obviously argues his case in a lot of detail), but think he goes a bit too far. IMO the movie’s moral is incoherent and I think therefore most people will take whatever message they want from this film. Regardless I recommend watching his video if you have time, as he is very good at breaking down films in detail. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/274 "2021-05-24T05:03:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I broadly agree with him (how could you not; he obviously argues his case in a lot of detail), but think he goes a bit too far. IMO the movie’s moral is incoherent and I think therefore most people will take whatever message they want from this film. I thought exactly the same thing before getting to this paragraph. The movie was so jumbled in the message it was trying to deliver that one really cannot get ANY message out of it. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/275 "2021-05-24T13:04:51Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Now that the thread has been reopened, for those interested, the movie analysis site _A Closer Look_ , made a video arguing that WW1984 goes beyond merely being an awful film because it actually _harms_ the audience by trying to sell a negative moral lesson ([link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7Pc9C7G4I?t=600)). > > It’s a 2-hour analysis (and review), so I’ll give the TL;DW version. > > He argues that even if the moral of the film is not to be greedy and/or not to just wish for things to fall into your lap without effort, it’s done in such a ham-fisted way, that it ends up basically implying that self-improvement itself is inherently bad; that we all need to stay in our respective lanes and not dream of more. And that this is a terrible message, particularly for children or adolescents to see. > > I broadly agree with him (how could you not; he obviously argues his case in a lot of detail), but think he goes a bit too far. IMO the movie’s moral is incoherent and I think therefore most people will take whatever message they want from this film. > Regardless I recommend watching his video if you have time, as he is very good at breaking down films in detail. Well, I personally don’t have _two hours_ to watch a video analyzing a bad movie, so in that sense I suppose I can’t argue with him. I think he’s wrong, though. But, in thinking about it, I did gain an insight into the movie that had eluded me previously, which also falls into the category of “obvious things about a creative work you didn’t realize.” I think WW84 _did_ actually have a throughline, and a consistent moral message, albeit one that it muddled itself: _don’t take shortcuts_. Baby Diana literally takes a shortcut in the Themiscyra prologue, and that’s a Bad Thing (although the movie itself muddles that with Antiope’s lecture about “Truth”). Max Lord tries to take shortcuts to success with his oil share scheme, which is built on luring others into taking a shortcut to wealth. He then takes the ultimate shortcut with the Dreamstone - and pays the price. Throughout the movie, characters take shortcuts instead of putting in the work, and fail. The Dreamstone is the ultimate expression of that. You know, with the perspective of a bit more distance, I think WW84 is a failure, but it’s an _interesting_ failure. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/276 "2021-05-24T13:42:29Z")
My family and I really enjoyed Wonder Woman (the movie, not the cheesy, but definitely watchable, TV show), and we were all taken aback by how bad WW 1984 was. Bad pacing, convoluted storytelling, hacky contrivances (its his love of his son that saves them all! Blergh), and middling, at best, action. I was glad to see the lasso, and the invisible jet was a nice (if incredibly stupid) touch, but other than that, it was a very bad movie. Gal Gadot’s legs did earn an audible 'Whoa!" from a couple audience members. But when the best part of your movie is a 2 second clip of someone walking, you’re in trouble. We were surprised to find out WW1984 and the original movie were written and directed by the same person. Talk about a fall from grace. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/277 "2021-05-24T13:45:22Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I think WW84 _did_ actually have a throughline, and a consistent moral message, albeit one that it muddled itself: _don’t take shortcuts_ . Baby Diana literally takes a shortcut in the Themiscyra prologue, and that’s a Bad Thing (although the movie itself muddles that with Antiope’s lecture about “Truth”). Max Lord tries to take shortcuts to success with his oil share scheme, which is built on luring others into taking a shortcut to wealth. He then takes the ultimate shortcut with the Dreamstone - and pays the price. Throughout the movie, characters take shortcuts instead of putting in the work, and fail. The Dreamstone is the ultimate expression of that. In other words, be like Diana - work hard, practice, and be the daughter of a god. No shortcuts there! ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/278 "2021-05-24T13:55:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > be the daughter of a god. No shortcuts there! That’s…not a shortcut. That’s just who she is. She _literally_ takes a shortcut in the Themiscyra Pentathalon, and _that’s_ what gets her into trouble, not taking advantage of her inherent abilities. Minerva didn’t “take a shortcut” to her multiple doctorates and a job at the Smithsonian by being smart. She used her intellect _and_ work to achieve that. It’s when she takes a shortcut to become popular that she runs into trouble. I’m _not_ going to argue that “don’t take shortcuts” is the _clear_ and _coherent_ throughline and message of the movie - I think I’ve made it clear that I think it’s a muddled mess. But I do think that the message is _much_ more “don’t take shortcuts” than “don’t try to improve yourself”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/279 "2021-05-24T14:02:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Now that the thread has been reopened, for those interested, the movie analysis site _A Closer Look_ , made a video arguing that WW1984 goes beyond merely being an awful film because it actually _harms_ the audience by trying to sell a negative moral lesson ([link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7Pc9C7G4I?t=600)). Jeez Louise, it’s just another lame superhero movie. No need to go that far overboard. As soon as I saw that Kristen Wiig was in the movie it was clear it would be bad, maybe even worse than the average bad superhero movie, but not some kind of moralistic disaster that actually harms the audience. Seriously folks, stop with the high expectations and the emotional crash when Lucy pulls the football away again. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/280 "2021-05-24T14:27:58Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > That’s…not a shortcut. That’s just who she is. She _literally_ takes a shortcut in the Themiscyra Pentathalon, and _that’s_ what gets her into trouble, not taking advantage of her inherent abilities. How’s that saying go - “born on third base and thought she hit a triple?” Diana may use her powers for good, but that doesn’t change the fact that her entire _life_ is a shortcut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928.md?page=15)