# Wonder Woman 1984 (WW84) Seen it \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [December 26, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928 "2020-12-26T02:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/281 "2021-05-24T14:31:10Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I think WW84 _did_ actually have a throughline, and a consistent moral message, albeit one that it muddled itself: _don’t take shortcuts_ . I agree, and you’re right, it’s muddled. The woman from the museum for example just wants to be more popular and more noticed. So, she dresses differently and talks to more people. Things people learn to do in real life. And, in a sense, it’s the _opposite_ of a shortcut, because previously she was just feeling sorry for herself and hoping the world will come to her, and now she is actively getting herself out there. But in the movie, it makes her a monster (then she goes all out and _chooses_ to be a monster, which made absolutely no sense). So, I agree with what they were shooting for, but boy did they fumble. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/282 "2021-05-24T14:31:43Z")
At this point, I seriously have no idea what you’re trying to argue. Diana is privileged? Ok, I mean sure, but…so? If _Diana_ said _in the movie_ that Minerva should just work harder to be like her, sure, that would be stupid, because Diana is an Amazonian demigod, while Minerva is human, and no amount of hard work is going to give her the power to fly. If you’re saying that the “no shortcuts” message is muddled, I agree with you, because the whole movie is a muddled mess. Beyond that, I’m really not clear what point you’re trying to make in your replies to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/283 "2021-05-24T14:34:35Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But in the movie, it makes her a monster (then she goes all out and _chooses_ to be a monster, which made absolutely no sense). Well, it makes sense if you accept that the stone chose her “goodness” as the price for her popularity. Of course, that also didn’t make a lot of sense but whatcha gonna do? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/284 "2021-05-24T14:40:30Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > If you’re saying that the “no shortcuts” message is muddled, I agree with you, because the whole movie is a muddled mess. Pretty much. I don’t think I was actually arguing with you. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/285 "2021-05-24T16:02:54Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I broadly agree with him (how could you not; he obviously argues his case in a lot of detail), Incidentally, afterwards I did manage to get through enough of his video to hear this argument, and… honestly, his argument is very weak, highly dependent on some extremely dubious assumptions, and he takes it to a genuinely ridiculous extreme. gdave’s interpretation of WW84’s message is far more consistent with what the movie actually had in it, but let’s take Video Guy’s argument for what it is: 1. Barbara (Kristen Wiig) wishes she were more like the beautiful, confident Diana (Gal Gadot) 2. She wishes on the dreamstone to be like her 3. She becomes more like Diana, at least superficially 4. This doesn’t work out well 5. Therefore, the message of the movie is that you should not aspire to be better. I am really struggling with the logic here; it’s a truly bizarre interpretation. The message of the movie, including Barbara’s story, is exactly what gdave said; success comes through effort, not cheating. (Unfortunately this is combined with the message that it’s okay to take a guy’s life over and rape him, which is distracting, and it’s in the midst of a movie that’s very badly written in a lot of distracting ways.) As jumbled as the movie is, it’s a message the film just hammers away at, over and over. It’s why that long boring race scene was in the movie, it’s why Diana has to give up Steve Trevor, it’s the whole point of Maxwell Lord, and it’s what the Barbara/Cheetah arc was about. I can’t for the life of me grasp how one gets out of that “you shouldn’t try to achieve things.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/286 "2021-05-24T20:20:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As long as we’re adding scenes to the movie, I had an idea about how to upgrade Diana’s powers from “jumping really far” to “flying.” > > During an action scene, Steve observes her making some improbable jump, like catching an escaping helicopter. Being a pilot, realizes that her trajectory doesn’t make sense if she’s jumping. Her trajectory only makes sense for powered flight. After the scene, he asks her how far she can jump, and she’s like, “I never tested it, I just try and make the jump, and usually succeed.” Unrelated to Wonder Woman, but I was reading the excellent _Superman Smashes the Klan_ comic a few months ago, and was pleased to find a scene almost exactly like this. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928/287 "2021-05-30T00:32:48Z")
I’ve finally caught up with both the movie and this thread. I agree with a lot that’s been posted. > [@Hamlet](#): > > We were surprised to find out WW1984 and the original movie were written and directed by the same person. Directed by the same person, Patty Jenkins. But Jenkins has no writing credit on the first (2017) movie, which lists Allan Heinberg for the screenplay and Zack Snyder, Jason Fuchs, and Heinberg for the story. For WW84, Jenkins is credited both on screenplay (with two others) and story (with one other). Which brings me to my main takeaway about WW84: Jenkins was director of a movie–the original 2017 _Wonder Woman_–that made hundreds of millions of dollars for its studio and investors. And when that happens, filmmaking history has shown us, a director’s next project gets much less scrutiny. The writer and/or director of the hit is presumed to be a Wizard: _someone who knows what makes a movie a hit_. Up-thread there was reference to studio pressure on Jenkins to make the movie shorter, by removing one of the two opening sequences. So it’s _not_ the case that Jenkins got full creative control—something arguably responsible for some of the most disappointing follow-up films ever made. (I’m thinking M. Night Shyamalan and Christopher Nolan here, among others.) Nonetheless, I’m feeling fairly confident that the screenplay that Jenkins and her writing partners Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham came up with did not receive the number of readings and the amount of feedback it would have undergone, if Jenkins didn’t have the 2017 success under her belt. Studio executives assumed she was enough of a Wizard to be left alone. Maybe some of them read the screenplay and saw issues—but who dares to question the person who _knows_ ‘what makes a movie a hit’??? People posting in this thread have performed script-doctoring that _could_–and should–have happened before the cameras ever rolled. But no one at Warner was willing to interfere with what they assumed to be the hit-making magic. It’s a weakness in the industry. In all likelihood it can’t be fixed, because it’s human nature to defer to those who have had a big success. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-1984-ww84-seen-it-spoilers/928928.md?page=14)