# Wonder Woman movie rumor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829 "2004-12-27T21:46:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/101 "2004-12-30T13:52:56Z")
Excellent points all around, **CandidGamera**. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/102 "2004-12-30T14:05:53Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > It really, really sounds like you are. Well, I am not. I can see how one could read that into my comments if one had an agenda, but I do not feel that way. > [@Cliffy](#): > > What characteristics of Torres are you looking at that allow her to play an Amazon but not Wonder Woman? Can you name _any_ that aren’t that she’s black? Why does Wonder Woman have to be white? Because she was originally? Let me rephrase myself, and hopefully this will clear up any confusion. Gina Torres would make a fine Wonder Woman, I suppose. However, she wouldn’t make a good Diana. BTW, she would make an OUTSTANDING Promethea, but I digress. As I mentioned in my previous post, I think that the actor/actress portryaing the role should look the part, and should embody the character as much as possible. If they made a Wonder Woman movie starring Gina Torres, I would definitely go see it, but a lot of people in the theater would be (understandably) confused, since Wonder Woman has been consistently portrayed as white. > [@Cliffy](#): > > How many comics with black leads do you think would get sold in 1942? (How many get sold _now_?) Next to none, and not many. > [@Cliffy](#): > > WW was also originally a secretary who loved getting tied up, but both are absent from today’s comics. (As is her last name.) About the only thing that hasn’t changed is that she’s a chick with big knockers who fights bad guys. As you well know, her appearance and portrayal has also remained almost constant throughout the years as well, so that hasn’t changed either, except for throw-away stories and intentional shake-ups. > [@](#): > > Because it systemitizes and prolongs the racism that existed when the characters were created. Orval Faubus has been dead for a decade but as long as good parts are being written about characters that had to be created white (or they’d never sell in Savannah or Rochester), the racists of decades past are still effectively closing off opportunities to black actors who could excel in those roles. Oh please. :rolleyes: Nobody is trying to systemitize or prolong racism. You seem to be jumping at shadows and convinced that all of the early creators were just horrible racists. The times were different, to be sure, and comics have come a long way in promoting diversity. But I believe that casting a black woman **solely** because the original character “had” to be created white is not a good enough reason, and is just as racist (only in reverse) as you apparently view the original. What you don’t seem to understand (or simply refuse to understand) is that appearance is very important for recognizability when casting and marketing a movie to an audience. Tell me: Why did Freddie Prinze Jr have to wear a blond wig in the Scooby Doo movies? Was it to make him look more like Fred, or was it because Fred “had” to be created as a blond guy instead of hispanic so kids would watch the cartoon? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Jesus, could you imagine The Shawshank Redemption if they’d had to cast David Caruso? I assume you mean in the role of “Red”. It very well may have stunk. Can you imagine if they’d had to cast Chris Tucker for the role of Andy Dufresne? > [@](#): > > Big tits and an eagle on her chest and I think most everyone would get it. Fair enough, but casting a black woman **solely** because she is black is just as racist as only casting a white woman who looks exactly like Diana but can’t act her way out of a paper bag but passing up a talented black actress who would do great. > [@](#): > > 'Cus that’s a property that’s intrinsically about race. Wonder Woman is certainly a story about gender roles (and bondage fantasies), but the character’s message has nothing to do with race. Ergo, there’s no reason her casting session has to. It is? I thought it was about some kids who hung out in a junkyard. To each his own, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/103 "2004-12-30T14:19:01Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > No, but you’re putting her forth as evidence that casting Gina Torres or another black actress as Wonder Woman wouldn’t make a bit of difference. No I did not. Again, the ONLY reason Nubia was mentioned was a. A poster stated that there were no black Amazons and b. You stated Diana was unique. I have never stated that it wouldn’t make a bit of difference…what I HAVE said, is that Wonder Woman DOESN’T have to be a white person…because and here we go again The ‘Title’ of Wonder Woman can and has been given to other people. As there ARE black Amazons THEN Gina Torres or any other woman including REDHEADS should not automatically be discontinued SOLELY on the basis of skin or hair color. How many times must I repeat this, before you stop? Show me one post in which I said it MADE NO difference. I get it, you’re a big Wonder Woman fan. > [@](#): > > Okay, you’re just wrong. These things added to his recognition factor, but I’ve said it before, he’s been a well-developed character as far back as the early 80’s. I quess we’ll gonna have to disagree. I don’t consider John Stewart a well developed character prior to recently. He was just around, again Guy Garnder was more developed…and I don’t believe John Stewart was in the Crisis either. > [@](#): > > The Green Lantern is a fantastically bad example for you in this case, because there are 3600+ of them… I’m not going to explain this to you again. > [@](#): > > “Headline” does not mean “is the sole person starring in.” Using your definition, Wonder Woman didn’t “headline”: her own book - you know, the one called “Wonder Woman” - for years, because of Huntress back-up features. Again you are being dishonest. Headline means Featured. Until Luke Cage no Black person Headlined a book…does the Black Panther count? No, the book wasn’t titled The Black Panther, it was titled Jungle Action. There was no doubt, that when you purchased a book called “Wonder Woman”, you were buying Wonder Woman even if there was a side story included. > [@](#): > > Strawman. I am interested in comics history. What I’m not interested in is defunct culutural phenomena (like blaxploitation) that precede my birth. Maybe you should be, you might learn something… > [@](#): > > Do you read comics? At all? You must be joking about the three decades thing. A decade later, John getting stories of his own as a full-time GL. Two decades later, he’s “headlining” … oh, wait, sorry, there were a few other people in the book… “Starring” in Green Lantern Mosaic. Again the number of books a character is doesn’t define the character. The Mosaic books are toss aways. It’s nice that they kept the character alive and around, but he was unfocused and still under-developed. Compare John Stewart in Mosaic, with the one currently. Not the same character. I challenge you to defend the assertion that Mr. Terrific was made black for reasons of “diversity”. [/QUOTE] [Done.](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8407/joint.html) > [@](#): > > Q7. You created the new Mr Terrific, Michael Holt - correct? So why did you choose to introduce a new Mr Terrific, as opposed to a new Hourman, or Dr Mid-Nite, or Atom? > > There WAS a new Hourman at that time, and there was an Atom in the JLA, and I don’t think Dr. Mid-Nite had died at the time. I was struck, in re-reading the origin of Mr. Terrific, at how PERTINENT the character and the situation actually was, if you put him in the inner city and made him African-American. Everything seemed to apply. It seemed so natural to me. And it gave me the chance to tie-up that loose end from that JLA/JSA team-up where Terry Sloan was killed. Is Mr. Terrific LAME now? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/104 "2004-12-30T14:37:18Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > No I did not. Again, the ONLY reason Nubia was mentioned was a. A poster stated that there were no black Amazons and b. You stated Diana was unique. And Diana’s still unique. That’s the point I’m trying to get across. > [@](#): > > I get it, you’re a big Wonder Woman fan. Actually, no, I’m not. I’ve bought her book now and then because of tie-ins or guest-stars, but I’ve never been a fan of the character. > [@](#): > > I quess we’ll gonna have to disagree. I don’t consider John Stewart a well developed character prior to recently. He was just around, again Guy Garnder was more developed…and I don’t believe John Stewart was in the Crisis either. You haven’t read Crisis then. Or Anything Stewart’s been in since 1980. Stewart was, as I recall, the sole Green Lantern of Earth at the beginning of the Crisis. He ran into some trouble when trying to defend one of the Monitor’s “tuning forks” as, in the present period, the Main Power Battery on Oa was attacked. > [@](#): > > I’m not going to explain this to you again. Thank you. The muddled facts were becoming tiresome. 😉 > [@](#): > > Again you are being dishonest. Headline means Featured. Until Luke Cage no Black person Headlined a book…does the Black Panther count? No, the book wasn’t titled The Black Panther, it was titled Jungle Action. There was no doubt, that when you purchased a book called “Wonder Woman”, you were buying Wonder Woman even if there was a side story included. I can only respond to what you say, not what you meant to say. > [@](#): > > Again the number of books a character is doesn’t define the character. The Mosaic books are toss aways. It’s nice that they kept the character alive and around, but he was unfocused and still under-developed. Compare John Stewart in Mosaic, with the one currently. Not the same character. Considering your grasp of DCU History, I have to doubt that you’ve even read Mosaic. I’ve read most of the series, and while it was, as a whole, uninteresting, the character of John Stewart is there in true and fundamental form. > [@](#): > > [Done.](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8407/joint.html) > > Is Mr. Terrific LAME now? I don’t see ‘diversity’ - I see ‘the character’s circumstances meshed well with having him be black’. I mean… you quoted that excerpt, so you had to have read it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/105 "2004-12-30T15:51:06Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > As you well know, her appearance and portrayal has also remained almost constant throughout the years Dishonest. Her “portrayal” is night and day with what it was in 1942. Her costume is different, her personality is different, her history is different, her occupation is different, her mission is different, her name is different, her powers are different, her supporting cast is different, the type of story is different, etc. Shall I go on? > [@](#): > > Oh please. :rolleyes: Nobody is trying to systemitize or prolong racism. Oh :rolleyes: yourself. Racism _is_ systematized. The only way to fight it is to _fight_ it. You can’t solve the racial injustices of the past that continue to this day by pretending they don’t. > [@](#): > > You seem to be jumping at shadows and convinced that all of the early creators were just horrible racists. No, most of them were liberal New York jews. But because of the racist attitudes that pervaded at the time, their creations had to be white. Those effects rebound to today. > [@](#): > > But I believe that casting a black woman **solely** because the original character “had” to be created white is not a good enough reason Where have I suggested this? Where has anyone? Torres was mentioned because some people think she’s got the stuff to play the part. The objection to her casting by you and **Candid** is her race; it’s not the reason anyone wants to give her the part – it’s just immaterial. > [@](#): > > Can you imagine if they’d had to cast Chris Tucker for the role of Andy Dufresne? Again, you assume that we’re demanding Torres be cast _because_ she’s black. I admit to skimming some of the posts in the thread, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see anyone suggesting this. We’re saying only that she should not be denied the role because she’s black anymore than she should be denied service at a Woolworth’s lunch counter. > [@](#): > > It is? I thought it was about some kids who hung out in a junkyard. To each his own, I guess. Then you’re not paying attention. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/106 "2004-12-30T16:10:29Z")
I didn’t remember John Stewart in the crisis and still believe that the quantity of a characters appearace, especially in a second rate series doesn’t add to it’s characterization. Your opinion differs, fine. What is John’s fundmental form? The angry John? The Wise, John? The Selfless, John? Which John were you going to pick up when you read a copy of Mosaic? The same John that was leader of the Darkstars? The same John that screwed up in the Cosmic Odessey? The John who was so guilty about the death of his sister, that became paralized? That John? I don’t know what you’re talking about, I didn’t define headlining in the terms you claim I did…unless you’re playing the old “misunderstanding” game. If I’m not clear, ask for clarification. Anything else is… poor form. John Ostrander has a history of creating “minority” characters for the sake of diversity, especially within group settings. It is not a far reach to infer that his Mr. Terrific was cut out of the same desire. Unfortunately, I don’t have Mr. Ostrander’s number so I can’t ask him; all I can provide is what I can find. You can agree or not. You asked me DEFEND, not prove. I believe my first link did just that. I believe this link adds to it. > [@](#): > > UNCA: One of the things which I always appreciated and enjoyed most, re: your SUICIDE SQUAD run, was your especial emphasis on minority characters, throughout. (Amanda Waller; Bronze Tiger; Vixen; the Jihad; etcetera, etcetera) > > Was this a conscious and intentional “focus” on your part, or merely happy auctorial accident? And – if it was the former, in fact – was it a sort of subtextual commentary on present-day American society, and/or the judicial process of same? > > JOHN: Purely intentional and done for a variety of reasons. First of all, we wanted international settings to give the book a different feel than the other team books. Villains and heroes from around the world were welcome. > > Second, within a different ethnic grouping I liked to show more than ONE type of character. Bronze Tiger is different from Amanda Waller is different from Vixen. I wanted to show not only racial diversity but divrsity within the race. [racial diversity](http://www.geocities.com/cheeksilver/ostrander.htm) Believe what you want. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/107 "2004-12-30T16:28:11Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > What is John’s fundmental form? The angry John? The Wise, John? The Selfless, John? Which John were you going to pick up when you read a copy of Mosaic? The same John that was leader of the Darkstars? The same John that screwed up in the Cosmic Odessey? The John who was so guilty about the death of his sister, that became paralized? That John? All of the above. Human beings are complex psychological animals. > [@](#): > > You asked me DEFEND, not prove. I believe my first link did just that. I believe this link adds to it. > > [racial diversity](http://www.geocities.com/cheeksilver/ostrander.htm) Well, I can defend an assertion that the sky is purple by linking to the Constitution, but I wouldn’t really be doing a very good job. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/108 "2004-12-30T16:30:49Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Well, I can defend an assertion that the sky is purple by linking to the Constitution, but I wouldn’t really be doing a very good job. You are being dishonest again…but I see there is no point in continuing. Thanks for your participation. peace. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/109 "2004-12-30T16:39:47Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > You are being dishonest again…but I see there is no point in continuing. Thanks for your participation. > > peace. No, I’m not. I’m arguing by exaggeration. To translate : “Neither of your articles says anything about Terrific II’s creation being “Diversity” oriented.” I could just say that, but it’s funnier my way. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/110 "2004-12-30T16:56:32Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > No, I’m not. I’m arguing by exaggeration. To translate : “Neither of your articles says anything about Terrific II’s creation being “Diversity” oriented.” I could just say that, but it’s funnier my way. Yes you are. You asked me defend my position that Terrific creation was diversity oriented. Yes it would be nice to have a quote saying, “I created Mr. Terrific because…” I haven’t found it…yet. However I have a quote from the creator saying he chose Mr. Terrific to be black. Why? His rational is, that in re-reading Mr. Terrific’s origin, he felt it would now be better suited for an Inner-City African-American. Why? Why couldn’t it be an Inner-City Latin, or Irish or Jew or whatever? Other groups besides blacks live in the inner city. He made a choice, what prompted that choice? I don’t know. I do know that some people get in hissy, when someone admits to re-creating a white character other than white because of ‘diversity’. It would have been great, if the interviewer followed up and asked about diversity concerning Mr. Terrific; he didn’t. However we do KNOW that diversity is important to the creator of Mr. Terrific, especially when it comes to group settings. He said so. It is not a reach to infer, using what we know about the creator to DEFEND the suggestion that his new verison of Mr. Terrific was moviated by a desire for diversity. Circumstantial? Absolutely. Again, believe what you want. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/111 "2004-12-30T17:03:00Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Yes you are. You asked me defend my position that Terrific creation was diversity oriented. Yes it would be nice to have a quote saying, “I created Mr. Terrific because…” I haven’t found it…yet. To me, what you’ve given me is as good as asserting Stalin was influenced by aliens, then giving me an article on Stalin, then one on Aliens. > [@](#): > > It would have been great, if the interviewer followed up and asked about diversity concerning Mr. Terrific; he didn’t. However we do KNOW that diversity is important to the creator of Mr. Terrific, **especially when it comes to group settings**. He said so. Which might help, but Ostrander didn’t create Terrific as a part of a group setting. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/112 "2004-12-30T17:14:30Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > To me, what you’ve given me is as good as asserting Stalin was influenced by aliens, then giving me an article on Stalin, then one on Aliens. That’s your opinion. Which might help, but Ostrander didn’t create Terrific as a part of a group setting. [/QUOTE] Please. Ostrander wrote for the JSA in the past. Of course he was planning Terrific to go into the group. Do you have a link that specifically says that he envised Terrific as a SOLO character? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/113 "2004-12-30T17:17:59Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Please. Ostrander wrote for the JSA in the past. Of course he was planning Terrific to go into the group. Do you have a link that specifically says that he envised Terrific as a SOLO character? He debuted as a supporting character in the Spectre. If the idea from the beginning was to jam him into the JSA, there’s no sign of it. Innocent until proven guilty, I say. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/114 "2004-12-30T18:15:32Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > He debuted as a supporting character in the Spectre. If the idea from the beginning was to jam him into the JSA, there’s no sign of it. Innocent until proven guilty, I say. Very convenient. I didn’t say he was “jammed” into the JSA; like one would an after-thought. I said he was created with him joining the group in mind. Another misunderstanding no doubt. Mr. Terrific appeared twice in the Spectre. Once in issue #54, where he is introduced and takes on the role of the New Mr. Terrific and the second in issue #62 when he as Mr. Terrific goes to the funeral of Jim Corrigan. He’s joined by some of the JSA members, clearly a signal of the things to come. Written by John Ostrander. guilty or not? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/115 "2004-12-30T18:24:02Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Very convenient. I didn’t say he was “jammed” into the JSA; like one would an after-thought. I said he was created with him joining the group in mind. Another misunderstanding no doubt. You’re reading too much into terminology. I could’ve just as easily said “place” or “put.” > [@](#): > > Mr. Terrific appeared twice in the Spectre. Once in issue #54, where he is introduced and takes on the role of the New Mr. Terrific and the second in issue #62 when he as Mr. Terrific goes to the funeral of Jim Corrigan. He’s joined by some of the JSA members, clearly a signal of the things to come. Written by John Ostrander. > > guilty or not? Well, gee, let’s think. Mr. Terrific II shows at the funeral… couldn’t possibly be because Corrigan, as the Spectre, had helped him turn his life around. Nope, nothing to do with it. And clearly the JSA were there to foreshadow Terrific II’s joining the team, and not at all to show their respects for a man who was their colleague for 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/116 "2004-12-30T18:26:52Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > You’re reading too much into terminology. I could’ve just as easily said “place” or “put.” I can only respond to what you say, not what you meant to say. > [@](#): > > Well, gee, let’s think. Mr. Terrific II shows at the funeral… couldn’t possibly be because Corrigan, as the Spectre, had helped him turn his life around. Nope, nothing to do with it. And clearly the JSA were there to foreshadow Terrific II’s joining the team, and not at all to show their respects for a man who was their colleague for 50 years. Dishonest…again. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/117 "2004-12-30T18:32:37Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > I can only respond to what you say, not what you meant to say. And if the difference between ‘jam’ and ‘put’ were pertinent to the conversation, that’d mean something. > [@](#): > > Dishonest…again. No, just sarcastically disrespectful. To continue the courtroom analogy, how does a defense attorney clear his client of the crime? By presenting a plausible alternate theory of the crime back up by the facts. So I presented a plausible alternate theory for Terrific II’s presence at the funeral. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/118 "2004-12-30T18:47:59Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > And if the difference between ‘jam’ and ‘put’ were pertinent to the conversation, that’d mean something. Dishonest. To Jam something and put something have different meanings, they are not interchangable. > [@](#): > > No, just sarcastically disrespectful. To continue the courtroom analogy, how does a defense attorney clear his client of the crime? By presenting a plausible alternate theory of the crime back up by the facts. So I presented a plausible alternate theory for Terrific II’s presence at the funeral. Have I been disrespectful towards you? I don’t believe so. To each their own, I guess. Look, stories can have mulitple meanings. Everything you said is absolutely correct…however that doesn’t mean that the creators weren’t also giving clues to what the future of the look of JSA was going to be, especially considering that the writer had previously written for the JSA. I didn’t say or imply that Hott was placed there for SOLE purpose of forshadowing the future of JSA. You are dishonest when you deliberately “misunderstand” my point, to aviod admitting it has merit. Again, it’s poor form. peace. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/119 "2004-12-30T18:52:10Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Dishonest. To Jam something and put something have different meanings, they are not interchangable. They are ‘to place forcefully’ and ‘to place’ - since whether or not it was forceful is immaterial to this debate, they are equivalent. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say or imply that Hott was placed there for SOLE purpose of forshadowing the future of JSA. You are dishonest when you deliberately “misunderstand” my point, to aviod admitting it has merit. Again, it’s poor form. There’s no reason to think it’s foreshadowing, since it is fully and adequately explained by other circumstances already in existance. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829/120 "2004-12-30T18:57:18Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > They are ‘to place forcefully’ and ‘to place’ - since whether or not it was forceful is immaterial to this debate, they are equivalent. He debuted as a supporting character in the Spectre. If the idea from the beginning was to **jam** him into the JSA, there’s no sign of it. Innocent until proven guilty, I say. He debuted as a supporting character in the Spectre. If the idea from the beginning was to **place** him into the JSA, there’s no sign of it. Innocent until proven guilty, I say. These two sentences don’t convey a different meaning to you? Then it’s me. Perhaps a lurker or two, might step in? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-movie-rumor/281829.md?page=7)