# Wonder Woman - Seen it (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918 "2017-06-02T06:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/181 "2017-06-13T08:44:12Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Was the true in 1917? That piece was modern day, Wayne Enterprises couriers were delivering the old WW1 picture to Diana in her office in the Louvre. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/182 "2017-06-13T10:02:05Z")
Has DCEU established if Ares et al are actual dieties or just powerful beings, like the Asgardians in MCU? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/183 "2017-06-13T10:29:14Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Ares as a politician – as a “man of peace,” per Bob Dylan – has such great potential. We haven’t had a recent movie super villain who stays in a business suit through the final battle before (that I can remember). Why would he turn into a Tranformer in a Viking helmet? Let him battle her with slippery words and empty promises, not cliched lightning bolts and shards of metal. Zemo is – well, _business casual,_ maybe, since Russia can get pretty cold and so he’s wearing a bulky coat and it’s hard to see what he’s got on under it, but for all of that he’s obviously not wearing underpants-on-the-outside tights or something patterned on ancient armor or whatever; he just looks like a low-key psychologist. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/184 "2017-06-13T14:23:02Z")
> [@TYphoonSignal8](#): > > Aside from the ending whereby Ares was defeated by love concussion, or a love bolt, or whatever that was, this was indeed my biggest beef about the movie. Ares didn’t need to be Magneto. Ares could have done a much better job of a post-humanity vision. He could have mounted, to a warrior princess trained as a warrior from a young age, a compelling argument around conflict as a catalyst for change for the better. Or something like that. Conjuring big pointy bits of metal was very video gamey. I think we are still in a general mindset that superhero films (well, action movies in general) end with an earth-shattering kaboom. And that the God of War would go out in battle rather than politicking. I agree that the ending fight was pretty confusing/weak/long and generally unsatisfying – heck, even glowing reviews I’ve read seem to agree on this point – but it wasn’t any more video gamey than most of them. Granted “Well, it wasn’t worse than the others” is a pretty low bar in an otherwise pretty good movie so it stands out more. I suppose it’s a good thing that the movie’s low point comes at the end so I can enjoy the first two hours and tune out for the final twenty minutes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/185 "2017-06-13T16:34:38Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > 1. why can’t Diana’s actual friend who “gets it” be a woman? We get a taste of this from the brief interplay with Trevor’s secretary – let’s develop her character, and let the two of them push back on Trevor’s sexism. Or, if we can’t spoil Trevor by making him more realistically piggish, society’s sexism. As written, the secretary is a half-cooked tease at something that could’ve been so much more interesting. > 2. As I see it, movie Steve Trevor as executed is a snooze, a placeholder. (No shade on Chris Pine; he was fine with the lines he had.) They held back from making him flawed in any meaningful way, hence from him developing in any meaningful way. (They did the same for Diana. . The thing is Steve Trevor wasnt a sexist (albeit a bit clueless) and had no meaningful flaw, other than Patriotism (which wasnt much of a flaw in WWII). I mean, yes, they set this in WWI rather than WWII, but there’s no reason to crap all over the source material to make Trevor “interesting” to a handful of watchers. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/186 "2017-06-13T19:26:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@snoe](#): > > > > Ares as a politician – as a “man of peace,” per Bob Dylan – has such great potential. **We haven’t had a recent movie super villain who stays in a business suit through the final battle** before (that I can remember). Why would he turn into a Tranformer in a Viking helmet? Let him battle her with slippery words and empty promises, not cliched lightning bolts and shards of metal. > > Zemo is – well, _business casual,_ maybe, since Russia can get pretty cold and so he’s wearing a bulky coat and it’s hard to see what he’s got on under it, but for all of that he’s obviously not wearing underpants-on-the-outside tights or something patterned on ancient armor or whatever; he just looks like a low-key psychologist. Trying to remember if Guy Pearce’s villainous character remained sharp-dressed throughout _Iron Man 3_. After he became a corporate mogul, that is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/187 "2017-06-13T19:58:06Z")
I guess I’d prefer either a straight karmic death, or she uses some sort of flaw against him, or something other than pure power against pure power. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/188 "2017-06-13T20:27:22Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I guess I’d prefer either a straight karmic death, or she uses some sort of flaw against him, or something other than pure power against pure power. I liked the idea somebody mentioned upthread: sure, do the required action-packed fight-scene climax, with her parrying for all she’s got and maybe keeping him on the defensive by hurling a tank at him or whatever – but _that’s_ when she gets the lasso around him; and, just like the memorable gag where Steve Trevor is compelled to truthfully blurt out whether it’s a bad plan and they’d probably die, Ares realizes the error of his ways _because he’s forced to admit it._ Again, it’d have to be an incredibly badass battle first, to satisfy the audience that apparently needs that – but I think it could work, and it’d even be foreshadowed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/189 "2017-06-14T00:24:51Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Trying to remember if Guy Pearce’s villainous character remained sharp-dressed throughout _Iron Man 3_. After he became a corporate mogul, that is. You know, if we go back ten years and change, there’s Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/190 "2017-06-14T03:02:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You know, if we go back ten years and change, there’s Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. For that matter, there’s also Lex Lutherberg in Batman v. Superman. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/191 "2017-06-14T16:00:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Trying to remember if Guy Pearce’s villainous character remained sharp-dressed throughout _Iron Man 3_. After he became a corporate mogul, that is. No. In the final fight against Iron Man, he was shirtless … and glowing red-hot half the time, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/192 "2017-06-14T16:27:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For that matter, there’s also Lex Lutherberg in Batman v. Superman. No, that was Joker-light. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/193 "2017-06-14T19:35:09Z")
I really enjoyed it. It’s the first DCCU movie I really liked, though I did think BvS got a bad rap. (It wasn’t vey good, but it had its moments. and wasn’t as horrible as some people say.) The one thing I like about Zack Snyder is his ability to translate comic book action to movie fight scenes. I think the slow-mo and the freeze frames do a good job of re-creating comic panels and splash pages. Patty Jenkins did a great job copying this and improving it. Gal Gadot was awesome. She embodied Wonder Woman about as well as anyone could. The plotholes and inaccuracies didn’t bother me at all. There are plot holes in just about any superhero movie, do to the silliness of the overall concept of superheroes. Geographical inaccuracies don’t bother me in any movie–I live in DC and am used to people being in one neighborhood and then suddenly being in another neighborhood on the other side of town. I also wasn’t worried about the inaccuracies in WW1 either. It was a comic book fantasy, not a grim exploration of the horrors of the Western Front. Judged as a comic book movie, I give it a solid B+ ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/194 "2017-06-14T20:26:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Has DCEU established if Ares et al are actual dieties or just powerful beings, like the Asgardians in MCU? Not sure there really is a difference. They could be powerful beings that the Greeks worshiped as gods. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/195 "2017-06-14T21:23:15Z")
In my view this is the first live action Marvel or D.C. superhero movie that is a GOOD MOVIE. Period. Even the best of all the prior superhero movies whether Marvel or D.C. have, as movies, never been better than okay, fun thrillers. As movies, the best of them, whatever you can name—Nolan’s Batman, Iron Man, Deadpool, Avengers, Guardians, all of them—have never been better than mediocre movies. They were only good in comparison with the history of bad superhero movies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/196 "2017-06-14T21:52:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In my view this is the first live action Marvel or D.C. superhero movie that is a GOOD MOVIE. Period. Even the best of all the prior superhero movies whether Marvel or D.C. have, as movies, never been better than okay, fun thrillers. As movies, the best of them, whatever you can name—Nolan’s Batman, Iron Man, Deadpool, Avengers, Guardians, all of them—have never been better than mediocre movies. They were only good in comparison with the history of bad superhero movies. Superman! 1. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/197 "2017-06-14T23:11:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Superman! > > 1. Nah. Slow and cheesily sentimental. Not at all what I wanted from a Superman movie. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/198 "2017-06-14T23:20:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In my view this is the first live action Marvel or D.C. superhero movie that is a GOOD MOVIE. Period. Even the best of all the prior superhero movies whether Marvel or D.C. have, as movies, never been better than okay, fun thrillers. As movies, the best of them, whatever you can name—Nolan’s Batman, Iron Man, Deadpool, Avengers, Guardians, all of them—have never been better than mediocre movies. They were only good in comparison with the history of bad superhero movies. I have no idea what your criteria are, but I think there have been a bunch of good movies about superheros, including (but not necessarily limited to) The Mask, Hellboy, Kick-Ass, GotG and V for Vendetta. And those are just the ones based on existing comics. ETA: I’ve been lurking in this thread since the beginning and would like to thank everyone for their reviews and critiques. While I still have no desire to see this film, I think the discussion has been worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/199 "2017-06-14T23:43:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In my view this is the first live action Marvel or D.C. superhero movie that is a GOOD MOVIE. Period. Even the best of all the prior superhero movies whether Marvel or D.C. have, as movies, never been better than okay, fun thrillers. As movies, the best of them, whatever you can name—Nolan’s Batman, Iron Man, Deadpool, Avengers, Guardians, all of them—have never been better than mediocre movies. They were only good in comparison with the history of bad superhero movies. Well, to each his own, but this is ranked pretty far my personal list, but certainly above the “bottom tier” where the really bad stuff dwells. If it didn’t feature Wonder Woman, this would be an incredibly mediocre movie. This is a pretty shallow flick at the end of the day, which grossly undercuts its own point. It _could_ have been something great, but settled for “reasonably fun popcorn” in the end. It’s kinda sad that DC now considers a movie on the level of “The Dark Knight Rises” to be a good starting place (third times the charm!) for their franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/200 "2017-06-15T00:26:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In my view this is the first live action Marvel or D.C. superhero movie that is a GOOD MOVIE. Period. Even the best of all the prior superhero movies whether Marvel or D.C. have, as movies, never been better than okay, fun thrillers. As movies, the best of them, whatever you can name—Nolan’s Batman, Iron Man, Deadpool, Avengers, Guardians, all of them—have never been better than mediocre movies. They were only good in comparison with the history of bad superhero movies. Really? I liked the thing, but it seemed like a straight forward superhero flick. An excellent lead, and good fight scenes, but cheesy–in a fun way–and full of plot holes. The only DC/Marvel superhero movie I can think of that transcended the genre was Logan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=11)