# Wonder Woman - Seen it (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918 "2017-06-02T06:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/221 "2017-06-15T16:47:17Z")
I think people who dismiss things like plotholes, sloppy editing and a merely decent story are doing a huge disservice to the genre and the future of these movies. Hollywood will take for granted that a solid B- movie will get praised up the wazoo and be a huge hit and will stop trying to do better. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/222 "2017-06-15T16:59:41Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think people who dismiss things like plotholes, sloppy editing and a merely decent story are doing a huge disservice to the genre and the future of these movies. My standard is as simple as: Did I have a good time? Was I appropriately interested/entertained? If so, I guess I don’t care so much about a plothole because I still got my $10 worth and had a fun time out. The genre can fend for itself. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/223 "2017-06-15T17:44:10Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think people who dismiss things like plotholes, sloppy editing and a merely decent story are doing a huge disservice to the genre and the future of these movies. > > Hollywood will take for granted that a solid B- movie will get praised up the wazoo and be a huge hit and will stop trying to do better. I think that’s all people want from these superhero movies and TV shows, unfortunately. Was it “fun”? (I haven’t seen WW yet and have no idea how big of an issue these things are in her case.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/224 "2017-06-15T17:46:40Z")
On the other hand, really bad editing and plotholes can make a film much less fun (see Suicide Squad) so being primarily concerned with “Did I have fun?” isn’t mutually exclusive to half-competent movie making. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/225 "2017-06-15T18:04:52Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > On the other hand, really bad editing and plotholes can make a film much less fun (see Suicide Squad) so being primarily concerned with “Did I have fun?” isn’t mutually exclusive to half-competent movie making. True. I mean, any Superhero film will have some plot holes, but Suicide Squad was like swiss cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/226 "2017-06-15T19:10:14Z")
> [@TYphoonSignal8](#): > > Is \*Wonder Woman \*wildly popular because the message comes at just the right time? I don’t think you’re fully wrong. I think the climate certainly helped its popularity and I suspect it git a lot more attention from woman who might have dismissed it but if I had to quantify it I would guess maybe it added 15% to its box office. I will also say that as a Superhero Movie with a female lead it had a lot of pressure. It didn’t have the luxury of being even mediocre. Mediocre would not have been good enough. Middling reviews and box office would have brought out the “See, women can’t open Superhero movies” think pieces. As is often the case with women and minorities it had to be twice as good to get half as far. Luckily it succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/227 "2017-06-15T19:18:07Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think people who dismiss things like plotholes, sloppy editing and a merely decent story are doing a huge disservice to the genre and the future of these movies. Decent story and characters I care about is pretty much my whole reason for watching movies. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/228 "2017-06-15T19:25:28Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > What really gets me is how we’re all supposed to ooh and aah at the final big action scene, which is pretty generic now. Those have without exception become so boring. I really only see these movies anymore as sort of a duty, but then I instantly forget them. My only complaint was that Ares (David Thewlis) looked too much like Jeffrey Jones, and for the entire final battle I couldn’t get the final battle to Howard the Duck out of my head. A distraction that I won’t blame the movie producers for 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/229 "2017-06-16T05:32:19Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > \ **Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/230 "2017-06-16T11:34:48Z") > [@TYphoonSignal8](#): > > A long standing bone of contention within the comic book. Why bother having bracelets if you’re are pitched as being as invulnerable as Superman? I don’t think the original Wonder Woman was invulnerable to gunfire. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/231 "2017-06-16T22:16:27Z")
Just saw the movie today. I didn’t have to work today, and I got tired of waiting for DH to make time to see it, so I went to a cheap morning show. > [@Miller](#): > > Gal Gadot is a delight. Yup. > [@](#): > > The fight scene in the village was fantastic. The audience I saw it with lost their collective shit when she collapsed that bell tower. Yup. > [@](#): > > Actually, my main complaint is that the plot really doesn’t make much sense. The German super weapon is poison gas… which they had a lot of already. And, it’s really hard to make up a poison gas that’s more horrible than mustard gas. This stuff goes through gas masks (and apparently blows them up? I wasn’t clear on why the one in the dome caught fire when they were testing it.) so it’s bad, but it’s not quite “superweapon” bad. Also, if you can load up your goofy biplane long range bomber with enough supergas to wipe out London… would mustard gas not be just about as effective, on a civilian population? Why not use that, instead of waiting around for a moderately more effective gas to be invented? > > It’s not much of a super weapon, is what I’m saying. But you know what would be a good super weapon? _A gas that gives people super powers!_ How is the goddamn _super soldier serum_ not the McGuffin of this movie? It’s not like they weren’t already leaning into the Steve Trevor/Steve Rogers thing anyway, what with him sacrificing himself on a plane at the end. > > Not thrilled about killing Steve off, either. If they’re not doing any more WW movies set in the past, I guess it doesn’t matter, but they had good chemistry together, and I liked how cool he was with letting her save his life repeatedly. I wouldn’t have minded another movie of that. Hell, why not give them a happy ending together? It’s not like you have to explain why he wasn’t around any more in 2016. > > Anyway, I don’t want to bag on the movie too much, because I did genuinely enjoy it. Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman is the best realized cinematic version of a DC character yet. The plot needed some serious rewrites, but there’s a touch of Silver Age charm in how inane it is. Overall, I’d recommend it. Do you mean Golden Age charm? I have several original vintage Wonder Woman’s from the 1940s, and this did really have an authentic feel. I was worried about hoe they were going to handle the Etta Candy character, because she’s a bad joke in the 1940s, who wouldn’t fly now. I thought they translated her beautifully into something that was still authentic, but not offensive. The Silver Age was the so-called “Diana Rigg” age where Wonder Woman was more like Batman-- she was an ordinary person who accomplished everything through intestinal fortitude, and some 1960s-style meditation. I also have a collection of those comics. Plus, I have the whole 1990s Wonder Woman, where she was more like Xena, Warrior Princess. > [@jsc1953](#): > > They’re both children of Zeus, in one sense or another; so that makes them kind-of siblings I got the impression that despite what the comics say, Ares was pretty much telling Diana that her mother conceived her in the ordinary way with Zeus. That would make her a demi-Goddess, and explain why she can fly. As for the twist ending, I saw it coming as soon as Sir Armistice made his first appearance. I also knew the sword wasn’t going to be the answer, but I didn’t find the line that she was the godkiller as good as other big reveals. I kept thinking, “Why can’t the godkiller use a sword?” It didn’t seem to make a lot of sense. And yes, Ares WWI moustache was silly. But I liked the movie quite a lot. I hope Gal Gadot gets to play Wonder Woman again. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/232 "2017-06-16T23:45:05Z")
Strangely enough, there seems to be almost zero merchandising going on. I went to Barnes and Noble to look for action figures and statues and they have nothing. I pre-ordered something on Amazon but it’s not coming until October. I don’t see any displays or stands anywhere, not even empty ones as if they had sold out. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/233 "2017-06-17T01:42:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Strangely enough, there seems to be almost zero merchandising going on. I went to Barnes and Noble to look for action figures and statues and they have nothing. I pre-ordered something on Amazon but it’s not coming until October. I don’t see any displays or stands anywhere, not even empty ones as if they had sold out. Meanwhile, my wife owns [two dolls](http://io9.gizmodo.com/praise-hera-mattels-wonder-woman-dolls-are-glorious-1792304525) (I’d say “action figures” but they’re Barbie sized) – both in traditional WW garb but one with a horse – and [some jacket](http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2017/05/29/14377234/HT-WW-Bomber-Back_79.90.jpg) she ordered. So, uh, you can come over here and play with them if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/234 "2017-06-17T03:42:33Z")
My wife hates movies full of violence and explosions. As close as she’s ever gotten to a fantasy film was LOTR. So it surprised me that she wanted to see WW. And she enjoyed it, as did I. Interesting to see Robin Wright in a totally different role, and I laughed out loud when I saw Varga from Fargo as the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/235 "2017-06-17T04:35:21Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Miller writes: > > \> To be exact, this movie was set during WWI. The framing device is not the setting. > > I disagree. The setting for the film is the frame. This film is an explanation of her appearance in _Batman v Superman_. It’s her memories of her childhood and her leaving the island during World War I. If there are any future movies about her life between World War I and her appearance in _Batman v Superman_, I presume that they will also be told as flashbacks, where in length the flashback will be nearly all the film. The setting of a piece of fiction is the context in which the action of the story takes place. Literally none of the action i _Wonder Woman_ takes place in the Louvre. You could cut the bookend pieces out of the movie entirely, and nothing about the movie would be changed. Conversely, if you cut out all the WWI stuff, the movie would consist of Diana receiving an email, about fifteen minutes of her thinking about her childhood, and then Diana responding to the email. The whole film would be shorter than a typical episode of _Full House_. Look at it this way: say a friend came to you and said, “I really want to watch a movie set in the Louvre. Can you recommend one?” Do you really think _Wonder Woman_ would satisfy their request? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/236 "2017-06-17T04:40:05Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Do you mean Golden Age charm? I have several original vintage Wonder Woman’s from the 1940s, and this did really have an authentic feel. I was worried about hoe they were going to handle the Etta Candy character, because she’s a bad joke in the 1940s, who wouldn’t fly now. I thought they translated her beautifully into something that was still authentic, but not offensive. > > The Silver Age was the so-called “Diana Rigg” age where Wonder Woman was more like Batman-- she was an ordinary person who accomplished everything through intestinal fortitude, and some 1960s-style meditation. I also have a collection of those comics. Plus, I have the whole 1990s Wonder Woman, where she was more like Xena, Warrior Princess. No, I meant Silver Age. The “Wonder Woman as mod spy” phase of the comic only lasted about five years, right at the tail-end of the Silver Age. For most of that era, Wonder Woman had her super powers. And was written by Bob Kanigher, arguably the Silver-Agiest of Silver Age writers. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/237 "2017-06-17T05:30:46Z")
I figured Ares wasn’t going to be the German guy, but I thought he might turn out to be the disfigured German girl. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/238 "2017-06-17T08:06:23Z")
She needed her shield to protect her from the German machine gun fire, her bracelets are not enough and it looked like the MG was going to soon penetrate the said shield if Steve and the rest of the battalion had not arrived. So she is a bit like the early versions of Superman. Bullet resistant not invulnerable, IIRC there was an early comic where an ordinary artillery shell could hurt Supes. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/239 "2017-06-17T08:07:44Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I figured Ares wasn’t going to be the German guy, but I thought he might turn out to be the disfigured German girl. Yes, why should Ares be the Nazi supporting real life German General? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/240 "2017-06-17T11:34:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think the original Wonder Woman was invulnerable to gunfire. She wasn’t. She just apparently knew how to attack the tower without getting a scrape. > [@shijinn](#): > > she is a god but _she_ didn’t know that, and the movie is shown from her pov. i’m not sure why she bled from that initial attack, is her level of invulnerability dependent on her awareness? Maybe it was someone else’s blood? No. Kidding. > [@AK84](#): > > Yes, why should Ares be the Nazi supporting real life German General? Well, first of all, they weren’t Nazis. Also, does anyone else think that Sir Armistice was a stand-in for Lloyd George? He even kinda looks like him. I can see where it wouldn’t seem politic to use real politicians and generals, and Lloyd George did sort of hold up the Armistice by wanting to be lenient with Germany, against the wishes of the US and France, which if you are writing a movie, is going to look suspicious. Up until then, he’d been a good leader, though, something the movies never showed up, because we only see the tail end of the war. The end of the war seemed too WWII-ish, to me-- or maybe just too American. In her diaries, Vera Brittain said that when everyone came home, no one was saying “We won the war!” just “The war is over.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=13)