# Wonder Woman - Seen it (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918 "2017-06-02T06:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/141 "2017-06-12T00:26:51Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Incidentally, I think the movie would have worked had they completely subverted expectations regarding Ares. I am generally sick of Hollywood, or other half-baked western media, using mythological figures as convenient shorthands for “Evil”. […] > Have him give some cryotic warning about the next movie (_cough_, I mean, the next war). Except I don’t think that Ares was really meant to be a recurring villain (and, if he was, people would just make complaining comparisons to Loki) and Diana’s purpose on this earth was literally “Godslayer weapon”. Using a Greek mythological figure as the bad guy made sense as, again, Diana is an Amazon from the first roots of her comic creation. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/142 "2017-06-12T00:35:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heh. You know what I’d bet a great deal of money is being pitched as we speak? > > **WW2: WWII** The director, Patty Jenkins, said she wants to set the sequel in the U.S., and she implied it would be contemporary. Could Dr. Poison still be around? Maybe she was a brilliant enough chemist to come up with some kind of life-extension formula? And maybe she could use her super-strength formula on herself. Thoughts: 1. The music playing when she fought reminded me strongly of the cartoon X-Men and Spiderman themes. Distracting. 2. Did the rest of the Amazons know the “make from clay” story was a lie? Antiope certainly did; I bet the rest suspected if they didn’t know. 3. The scene in the clothing store reminded me of Buffy saying, “Stupid skirt!” in one episode. 4. Steve Rogers (in the first Captain America movie) said that his father had been gassed and left disabled in WWI. I remembered that when they were in the trenches. His father inspired him to be a soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/143 "2017-06-12T01:24:35Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Could Dr. Poison still be around? Maybe she was a brilliant enough chemist to come up with some kind of life-extension formula? And maybe she could use her super-strength formula on herself. My friend predicted that she would turn out to be an Amazon who went bad. I guess that could still happen. > [@](#): > > 1. The music playing when she fought reminded me strongly of the cartoon X-Men and Spiderman themes. Distracting. I thought music was fantastic. It sounded kind of ancient-world-y. > [@](#): > > 1. Did the rest of the Amazons know the “make from clay” story was a lie? Antiope certainly did; I bet the rest suspected if they didn’t know. I can’t see how that would work. They would all have been there to see that no clay baby had been brought to life. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/144 "2017-06-12T02:03:47Z")
We know pretty much how the story of Wonder Woman will continue. She appears in thee movie _Justice League_ which opens November 17th. I doubt that the future DC superhero films would go back in time or reboot what we know from that film. If I understand correctly, the rest of the Justice League only learned of the existence of Wonder Woman in _Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice_. So any solo movies about Wonder Woman in the future would have to be about what happens to her after the events of _Justice League_. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/145 "2017-06-12T02:27:06Z")
The other Amazons almost certainly knew her true purpose and origin. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/146 "2017-06-12T02:33:32Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > The other Amazons almost certainly knew her true purpose and origin. Did they? Then why bother guarding the sword and shield in their own special tower if everyone knew that Diana, not the sword, was the Godslayer? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/147 "2017-06-12T02:46:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > So any solo movies about Wonder Woman in the future would have to be about what happens to her after the events of _Justice League_. Well, they wouldn’t have to be. Theoretically, the solo movies could be set at any time, just like this one was. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/148 "2017-06-12T02:54:23Z")
To be exact, this one was set in the present. The movie opened with one scene in the present, and that lead to a flashback that was nearly all of the movie. The movie ended with one more scene in the present that was clearly supposed to be seconds after the first scene, so that the flashback was entirely between those two scenes. I suppose it’s possible that the next solo film will also be a flashback between two short scenes in the present. ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/149 "2017-06-12T03:44:19Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > So true. This film has been graded on a massive curve. It’s not bad, but it basically falls flat on its face right when the movie should have been reaching a great finish. > > Incidentally, I think the movie would have worked had they completely subverted expectations regarding Ares. I am generally sick of Hollywood, or other half-baked western media, using mythological figures as convenient shorthands for “Evil”. Classical gods, whether Norse, Greek, or Egyptian, were almost always intriguing and contradictory figures with immense storytelling possibilities. (Marvel, of course, immediately saw this with characters like Thor and Loki.) And it’s OK for them to be antagonists! But to make them _boring_ is a massive waste. I would have been much more interested if in fact he wasn’t a villain, though, and instead of a massive superheroic brawl, they remember that Diana’s core characteristic is compassion. Make that the centerpiece of the finale. > > There’s different ways to do it, but I would have suggested doing something like this: > (1) Ares shows up as in the movie… but he’s not the villain and actually did want the war to end. Because he’s not just a god of arbitrary conflict, but clashes of _warriors_. He wants humans to define themselves through conflict, not carry out vicious massacres like cowards. Hell, being filled with warriors, he knew exactly what was going on with Paradise Island and saw no reason to bother them. > (2) Diana starts the fight, trying to fulfill her semi-self-appointed destiny. > (3) She achieves victory by turning away from the battle (which she can’t win, as it just makes Ares stronger - which he points out) and holds off an army so Trevor can get to the plane. > (4) Have Ares nod respectfully and even admire her, because she did indeed define herself in conflict like a true warrior. Have him give some cryotic warning about the next movie (_cough_, I mean, the next war). > > I’m not saying this is a perfect plan, but _anything_ to not be as supremely dull. Nice plot. Or even to have borrowed a page from George Perez’s book, whereby she makes him see the apocalyptic consequences of his actions through the lasso, and he walks away. Perez also did a nice show of explaining why WW wears a bathing suit and boots: she wants to demonstrate to Ares that she has come to talk, and no armour on, has no weapons hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/150 "2017-06-12T04:57:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, they wouldn’t have to be. Theoretically, the solo movies could be set at any time, just like this one was. Didn’t WW say in BvS that she had withdrawn herself from the world of men for 100 years? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/151 "2017-06-12T06:18:43Z")
Yeah. Working at the Louarve is “withdrawing”. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/152 "2017-06-12T08:37:26Z")
I don’t think she’s been working there for the past 100 years… ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/153 "2017-06-12T09:16:46Z")
I really wanted to love the movie, but I’m a bit m’eh about it. I think in hindsight it’s growing on me a bit more than directly after seeing it, but still not in my top 5 superhero flicks. I don’t think it’s a bad movie, but it was to long, and I had some issues with the plot and writing I absolutely agree that some of the details of the plot were terrible. E.G. A not very super superweapon. Maybe it’s the downside of being a military history buff, but I found a lot of the WWI related stuff downright silly. One humorous thing my wife and I both commented on, is that in a similar vein to the old trope of every Parisian room having a view of the Eiffel Tower, apparently every notable London landmark is located within the same city block. I can assure you St Paul’s is not just a short stroll from Tower Bridge! :D:rolleyes: (And FYI to the makers, you don’t park a delivery truck where you did to deliver something to the Louvre. In fact that area is pedestarian only 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/154 "2017-06-12T12:47:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I can’t see how that would work. They would all have been there to see that no clay baby had been brought to life. I’m thinking that they saw their queen was pregnant. (Although I suppose, given that Zeus was Diana’s father, maybe Hippolyta could have gone through a full pregnancy in just a short time, and Antiope delivered the baby.) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/155 "2017-06-12T13:33:11Z")
What would they have done if she had bourne a son? The sea jump would have been epic! Though the incest would have necessitated an NC-17 rating.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/156 "2017-06-12T14:21:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What would they have done if she had bourne a son? The sea jump would have been epic! Though the incest would have necessitated an NC-17 rating.😛 What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/157 "2017-06-12T14:24:33Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > I really wanted to love the movie, but I’m a bit m’eh about it. I think in hindsight it’s growing on me a bit more than directly after seeing it, but still not in my top 5 superhero flicks. I don’t think it’s a bad movie, but it was to long, and I had some issues with the plot and writing > > I absolutely agree that some of the details of the plot were terrible. E.G. A not very super superweapon. Maybe it’s the downside of being a military history buff, but I found a lot of the WWI related stuff downright silly. > > One humorous thing my wife and I both commented on, is that in a similar vein to the old trope of every Parisian room having a view of the Eiffel Tower, apparently every notable London landmark is located within the same city block. I can assure you St Paul’s is not just a short stroll from Tower Bridge! :D:rolleyes: (And FYI to the makers, you don’t park a delivery truck where you did to deliver something to the Louvre. In fact that area is pedestarian only 🙂 ) Movies aren’t documentaries about real cities. If you’re waiting for any significant proportion of movie directors to start caring about this stuff, you have a long wait ahead of you. Heck, Christopher Nolan made Batman go under an overpass in daylight and come out at night. In fact playing the spot-the-crazy-stuff game makes movies more interesting, not less. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/158 "2017-06-12T14:36:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What are you talking about? Someone is not up to snuff with the story. Sad!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/159 "2017-06-12T14:48:50Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > I suppose it’s a matter of taste, but the MCU microcuts of action scenes get very annoying to me. Not just MCU. The Bale Batman movies are horribly claustrophobic and quick in their fight editing to the point of incomprehensibility. It’s one of my biggest peeves with that franchise, that they neuter the action sequences so badly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918/160 "2017-06-12T16:09:20Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Something else that occurred to me. If Diana does any more heroics between WWI and the modern day (which I’m sure she does) they have to be in secret since no one in BvS has heard of her. That also means the story of what she did in this movie did not travel far, which, as I am typing this makes me realize why it makes sense that poor village got murdered. If that village had survived the war, surly the story of how they were saved would become news eventually. > > Why Diana feels the need to keep undercover is an interesting story in and of itself, Maybe that will be her sequel. I also have to wonder (heh) how someone as conspicuous as Diana manages to remain unknown unless she makes a conscious effort to do so, and if that is the case… why? If the killing of innocents is such a motivating factor for her in WW1, surely the much worse case of WW2 would spur her to action. There are ways to juggle these concepts to make the movie more coherent, I figure. Say the Amazons were content living in isolation but are psychically shaken by the detonations of the A-Bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Shorty after that, Hippolyta gets the compulsion to carve a child out of clay, which Zeus (withered into near-nothingness by the centuries-long lack of worship) imbues with life as his last act before fading forever from this plane of existence. Ares does exist and was at his strongest during WW2, but is now seeing his inevitable end, now that mankind has mankind-exterminating weapons. Wonder Woman still kills Ares, but he welcomes it since there can now be only limited war and he has no wish to be a limited god. She takes his place, in a matter of speaking - she will be a warrior-goddess of _just_ wars, wars that must be fought for the greater good. Steve Trevor’s crippled plane finds Themyscira (somewhere in the Mediterranean) after he has lost communications and navigation after being hit by flak in the Gulf War, circa 1991. Anyway, “love conquers all” makes for a lousy message. It doesn’t, and never has. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonder-woman-seen-it-open-spoilers/787918.md?page=9)