# Wonderful Copenhagen **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688 "2004-08-13T13:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/21 "2004-08-16T11:21:28Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Just out of curiousity, what is it about Denmark that you dislike so much? The taxes, the weather and all the goddamn socialists. But I was just joking, I supposed Denmark all things considered isn’t so bad as all that provided you get to have looong vacations otherwheres, I bet there’re at least a couple of worse places on the globe and to be honest I always think the neighbours lawn is greener and I’d find something to bitch about in heaven (hey why does that Jesus-guy get to sit on the right side I wanna try that too, why aren’t God up for free election, why can’t I have weekend outings to hell). ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/22 "2004-08-16T11:33:45Z")
Well it doesn’t have a Prime Twat! You forgot that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/23 "2004-08-16T16:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Certainly there are feelings of cultural superiority but I don’t think there is much racism (of the: some people are racial inferior type) in Denmark… Also I think there is very little historical tradition for racial thoughts … Hrm. I’m not sure if I agree with this or not. Certainly I saw plenty of racism during my time in DK–more than I had ever met in my life before, and I was really shocked. Everyone seemed to resent and fear ‘brown’ people from the Middle East and so on, and no one thought much of Asians either. The comments I heard about Chinese and Japanese people were quite something. I could go on, believe me.\* I think there is ‘very little racial tradition’ in Denmark largely because there have never been very many non-white people living there until relatively recently, not because Danes are especially enlightened about race. \*For example, when I dated a half-Vietnamese guy who had been raised American, all I heard was “you’ll marry him and then he’ll run off with the children to Saudi Arabia and you’ll never get them back!” Um, what? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/24 "2004-08-16T16:35:51Z")
WHY would any SANE Dane convert to Islam? Denmark (to me anyway) impressed me as a clean, middle-class country, with people who are not sexually repressed…I always liked going to Bellevue Beach…lots of gorgeous chicks sabns bikini tops! How or why would anybody with this kind of freedom embrace a doctrince so warped and repressed? It is like returning to christianity, CA AD 1100! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/25 "2004-08-16T16:38:54Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > The reason why much of Europe has been free of “racism, xenophobia, etc…” is because, until very recently, its been only homogeneous groups of white-folk in Europe. Europeans have not really had to interact with non-European peoples in their daily lives until the last few years. Ireland, perhaps, the rest of Europe, you’re completely wrong. > [@](#): > > I have heard some awful stories about the violent clashes that are going on in northern England where huge ghettos of Arab an Asian immigrants have formed. There have even been a few threads about it here. You do know there’s been asian and carribean immigration to Britain for nearly 50 years, right? > [@](#): > > I really think that much of this will go to show how America really is the least racist country on Earth. Whatever gets you through the night. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/26 "2004-08-16T16:42:19Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > How come you come to Denmark so often (ok let me rephrase that: are you goddamn fucking out of your mind?!)? Is Stepford in the US, I think I remembered you coming from the Caribbean? Nobody gets the whole picture of anywhere, I’ve lived here for good part of my life I haven’t got the whole picture. You want a whole picture you go to my tiny native Faeroe Island – you’ll get the whole picture in about 12 days. I am Dominican, Stepford is a reference to “Stepford wives”. My husband is a Dane. And I love Denmark. Really. Honest 🙂 I always ask my husband where the assholes in Denmark are. I have been to parts of Denmark where there are very few to no inmigrants (North of Jutland for example) and even when I have been the only person in miles with anything resembling skin color (a lot of Danes are almost transparent in their whiteness) I never felt different or even looked at. I never encountered anything but smiling Danes who would happily take my Kroners anywhere. My husband says I am lucky and that he has it in good authority that Denmark has the same percentage of assholes as any other nation (at least that sounds like sound medical knowledge). Funny enough it is the only nation where I have never personally encountered an asshole. Mind you, they must all be in the Faroe Islands 😃 \* BTW, your prime minister is positively the most boring politician in the world. Just kidding. I once met somebody from the Faroe Islands and he was an OK guy. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/27 "2004-08-16T17:26:29Z")
> [@hlanelee](#): > > I thought that this was a thread about smokeless tobacco. I quit 9 years ago, sometimes I feel like I could sit down with a can on Copenhagen and a spoon. I thought it was about Frank Loesser, who admittedly wrote much better songs than the one this thread shares a title with. Sad OP, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/28 "2004-08-16T17:49:13Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > WHY would any SANE Dane convert to Islam? Denmark (to me anyway) impressed me as a clean, middle-class country, with people who are not sexually repressed…I always liked going to Bellevue Beach…lots of gorgeous chicks sabns bikini tops! > How or why would anybody with this kind of freedom embrace a doctrince so warped and repressed? It is like returning to christianity, CA AD 1100! :smack: Converting to Islam makes as much sense to me as converting to any other religion, including [Forn Sidr](http://www.cphpost.dk/get/63712.html) (how good can an ancient religion be without virgin sacrifices?). The question should be why would ANYONE convert to a fundamentalist branch of any religion. ‘It doesn’t make no sense’. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/29 "2004-08-16T19:21:21Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > The reason why much of Europe has been free of “racism, xenophobia, etc…” is because, until very recently, its been only homogeneous groups of white-folk in Europe. Europeans have not really had to interact with non-European peoples in their daily lives until the last few years. I have heard some awful stories about the violent clashes that are going on in northern England where huge ghettos of Arab an Asian immigrants have formed. There have even been a few threads about it here. > > I really think that much of this will go to show how America really is the least racist country on Earth. To paraphrase Dennis Miller, that’s like boasting of being the valedictorian of your summer school class. Every country has its own racial attitudes and it is hard to compare different cultures. In Brazil and other Latin American countries, interracial marriage is considered no big deal for most people, and people of mixed race are generally accepted for what they are, and not shoehorned into categories. In those respects, Brazil is less racist than the United States, But at the same time, most people with high status are white or light skinned, and poor people tend to be darker. So there is still obviously some racism at work. In the United States we have programs to give people from minority groups preference in some areas, to give them affirmative action…(of course that may be very racist in itself), In Brazil, that sort of thing is almost taboo, and people tend to be wary of anything that emphasizes racial division or may cause tensions. Which society is more racist? Well it depends on how you measure racism. If you consider actual living standards, membership in various professions or participation in politics as a group, then America comes out on top. If you measure social harmony, the absence of overt divisions, or the ease at which people of different colors feel around each other - I’d give the edge to Brazil. As for Denmark, Denmark was for a long time very culturally homogenous, I don’t think it even has white minorities, other than a few Germans in the far south. In fact the Danes went to great lengths to protect their small Jewish minority in World War II, when most other European peoples were succumbing to Nazi idealogy about the superiority of “Aryans”. In Britain or France there is a history of absorbing different cultures and regions, and the colonial experience. Denmark only had Greenland and the Virgin Islands to deal with interracial relations. But not many European countries are homogenous at all. There are many Gypsies, Turks, and other minorities in Europe, who have lived in some countries for several hundred years. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/30 "2004-08-16T19:44:01Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The taxes, the weather and all the goddamn socialists. But I was just joking, I supposed Denmark all things considered isn’t so bad as all that provided you get to have looong vacations otherwheres, I bet there’re at least a couple of worse places on the globe and to be honest I always think the neighbours lawn is greener and I’d find something to bitch about in heaven (hey why does that Jesus-guy get to sit on the right side I wanna try that too, why aren’t God up for free election, why can’t I have weekend outings to hell). In the [The Xenophobe’s Guide to the Danes](http://www.ovalbooks.com/xeno/Danes.html) there was something to that effect. It said that when Danes encounter a foreigner in Denmark some see them with curiosity because they don’t know what the heck he is doing there since wherever he came from it must be better than Denmark. Some other Danes just wonder how you could survive anywhere \*but \* in Denmark. The book suggests that you just don’t praise Denmark in front of Danes, the first group won’t believe you and the second would just smile and think to themselves that they knew all along how wonderful Denmark is. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/31 "2004-08-16T20:10:36Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > You do know there’s been asian and carribean immigration to Britain for nearly 50 years, right? Yeah I know that, but have you heard nothing of the [riots and hate crimes](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2001/summer_of_violence/default.stm) that have been hapening in northern England for the past few years? You are right that it has been happening in Ireland more often though. There has been a huge influx of immigration into Europe during the last decade, and Europeans are having to deal with foreign cultures and races in a way they never have before but Americans have for well over a century. ---
**Author:** ![Ardrine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ardrine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ardrine)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/32 "2004-08-16T21:03:41Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > You are right that it has been happening in Ireland more often though. Riots and hate crimes? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/33 "2004-08-16T21:54:19Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What a horrible story! I guess it shows just how different the muslim culture is …and the two (Danish liberalism and muslim conservatism) don’t mix! > I can imagine what the filthy-minded Imam would say, were he to walk along Bellevue Beach in the summertime! Women actually naked! > Perhaps, these two societies cannot mix, they are founded on fundamentally different ideas about human freedom and sexuality. > [@ralph124c](#): > > WHY would any SANE Dane convert to Islam? Denmark (to me anyway) impressed me as a clean, middle-class country, with people who are not sexually repressed…I always liked going to Bellevue Beach…lots of gorgeous chicks sabns bikini tops! > How or why would anybody with this kind of freedom embrace a doctrince so warped and repressed? It is like returning to christianity, CA AD 1100! :smack: Yeah! Damn those towelheads! Seriously, when you read over the first quote above, do you really endorse racial separatism? That’s not something most people believe in nowadays, ralph. Give it a slow once-over and consider saving yourself the embarrassment of association with that sort of viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/34 "2004-08-16T22:34:46Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Yeah! Damn those towelheads! > > Seriously, when you read over the first quote above, do you really endorse racial separatism? That’s not something most people believe in nowadays, ralph. Give it a slow once-over and consider saving yourself the embarrassment of association with that sort of viewpoint. Islam is not a race. Muslim is not a race. Stop with the red herrings. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/35 "2004-08-16T23:19:53Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > There has been a huge influx of immigration into Europe during the last decade, and Europeans are having to deal with foreign cultures and races in a way they never have before but Americans have for well over a century. Granted, the US has dealt with racial diversity longer, but “the last decade”? That only can be applied to Ireland, _if_ that, seeing as they have an impressive history of religious separatism as well. I’m labouring under the impression that discriminating people based on religion is equally evil as discriminating them for skin colour or nationality, of course - it’s not just whities vs. darkies. It’s a lot more complicated than that, really. My theory is that every society at some level needs a scapegoat. A group to shift all the problems on. It’s dangerous, it’s wrong, and we’ve seen on this very continent what happens if we let those dark underbelly feelings get out of hand. But it appears to be true. Take Holland, for example. Sure, a mostly white country up until the 1950’s, but also a country known for its religious tolerance: long has it been a place of refuge for Jews, and protestant Hugenots from France, for example. This tradition goes back to at least the early 16th century. After WWII and the colapse of our colonies, we found ourselves with an influx of people from Indonesia (during the 50’s and 60’s), Suriname and the Antilles (60’s and 70’s), and later when our economy boomed and no Dutchman would pick up the trash in the streets, Turks (late 60’s through early 80’s, and to some extent still today), and Moroccans (70’s and 80’s). Without fail, the “newest” group has always been the scapegoat. They’re the least integrated into our society, cultural clashes between the stricter homefront and a very liberal society lead youngsters to crime, et cetera. Without fail, those groups have slowly adapted. No one thinks of an Indonesian as anything else than a Dutchman now. For the Surinamese and the Antillians, I’d say they’re almost there as well. The Turks get a bad rep sometimes, but they’re better regarded than the Moroccans already. Give the latter group another 20 years, and they’ll be fine as well. Of course, there’s going to be a new scapegoat group by then, if my theory holds. And let’s hope it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/36 "2004-08-17T10:12:53Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Hrm. I’m not sure if I agree with this or not. Certainly I saw plenty of racism during my time in DK–more than I had ever met in my life before, and I was really shocked. Everyone seemed to resent and fear ‘brown’ people from the Middle East and so on, and no one thought much of Asians either. The comments I heard about Chinese and Japanese people were quite something. I could go on, believe me.\* > > \*For example, when I dated a half-Vietnamese guy who had been raised American, all I heard was “you’ll marry him and then he’ll run off with the children to Saudi Arabia and you’ll never get them back!” Um, what? This is an example of the cultural phobia or superiority I mentioned. Racist for me is the belief that one race is inherently superior, regardless of the culture he/she was raised in. (I’m not really sure that’s what you mean by racist in the US these days since it seem to have acquired such a broad meaning). I don’t know why they would mix up Vietnamese and American with Saudi Arabia but there have been a number of highly exposed cases where some men from various Arab countries after a divorce with a Danish women ran off to their native Arab countries and the mother never seeing their children thereafter. One thing is being cut off from contact with your child, but if you’re raised in Denmark it must be very hard to know that your child, especially if a girl, is raised in a severely restrictive and misogynist environment. I have two daughters, if one at some time come and tell me she wants to marry an Arab man, there’s no doubt that I’ll be more than a little worried – especially if it requires converting to Islam, since I do not consider Islam as widely practised today to be a likely path to happiness. I don’t think that makes me racist. I’ve never heard a negative thing said about Asians/Chinese/Japanese or “brown” people (for being “brown” rather than being from the Middle East) but as I said I readily admit I don’t have a clue what goes on in Denmark. > [@dangermom](#): > > I think there is ‘very little racial tradition’ in Denmark largely because there have never been very many non-white people living there until relatively recently, not because Danes are especially enlightened about race. I have to disagree on this one. Without a doubt Danes are inherently enlightened and superior in this as all other matters. > [@ralph124c](#): > > How or why would anybody with this kind of freedom embrace a doctrince so warped and repressed Well I recon you haven’t seen the fool. With his looks I suppose his best hope of a wife is an arranged marriage with someone’s underage cousin from Pakistan – then he’s also assured of never having to interacting with a woman on equal terms, a thing he clearly live in abject fear of. > [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > It doesn’t make no sense Since this is a double negation I’ll like to introduce you to Ase-tro. These folks drink mjoed with a vengeance, party like it’s 986 and have sex with wild abandon and religious fervour in newly ploughed barley fields - and when they die they get to do it all again in Valhalla. > [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > BTW, your prime minister is positively the most boring politician in the world. Oh yeah! I’m so envious of New Zealand. I’m hoping for a Prime Twat after the next election! > [@Coldfire](#): > > No one thinks of an Indonesian as anything else than a Dutchman now. For the Surinamese and the Antillians, I’d say they’re almost there as well. The Turks get a bad rep sometimes, but they’re better regarded than the Moroccans already. Give the latter group another 20 years, and they’ll be fine as well. Yes that’s the ideal. However it requires a wish from the immigrants themselves to integrate and become a part of the society whereto they immigrate. Unfortunately one of the biggest problems with immigrants in much of Europe today is a clear revulsion of integration into European society. Many imans preach a gospel of complete separation and non-integration. Children are sent to “reeducation” trips on Islam schools (read prisons) in Pakistan/Iran. For years whole immigrant societies have married nearly solely with spouses brought in from their original countries. Etc. This is a recipe for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/37 "2004-08-17T10:22:06Z")
Jeez **Rune** I would love to know how Helen Clarks got that stick so far up your arse. **Mighty-Girl** isn’t one of Helen Clark minions. If you look further down the front page you will see where she is bidding adeiu to the president of her-Not-NZ-country! Just settle down about the Prime Twat. She’s not after you…really truly! ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/38 "2004-08-17T10:32:58Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Jeez **Rune** I would love to know how Helen Clarks got that stick so far up your arse. **Mighty-Girl** isn’t one of Helen Clark minions. If you look further down the front page you will see where she is bidding adeiu to the president of her-Not-NZ-country! Hey! It was you who first brought up the Prime Twat in this thread. I’m just piously hoping for our very own Prime Twat. > [@calm kiwi](#): > > Just settle down about the Prime Twat. She’s not after you…really truly! She’s not? Phew! I so prefer my twats to be before me. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/39 "2004-08-17T10:43:05Z")
Now see that was funny 😃 I shall never mention the twat again. Brownies honour 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688/40 "2004-08-17T12:46:15Z")
> [@The Long Road](#): > > Islam is not a race. Muslim is not a race. Stop with the red herrings. :: frowns in confusion :: You’re not actually serious, are you? The Civil Rights Act here in the US, as with just about every other law prohibiting racial discrimination, uses the phrase “race, color, religion, or national origin” - so isn’t it obvious that ralph’s declaration that Islam and white Europe form “two societies” that “cannot mix” is, if not literally racist, the moral equivalent? Do you agree with what he says? Should Islam and Western Europe be kept apart? If not, why defend it? If so, I suppose there’s nothing to argue about, because we’ll never agree on terms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wonderful-copenhagen/259688.md?page=3)