# Wood gathering before metal tools **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** tools-electric-diy\ **Created:** [March 8, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694 "2022-03-08T17:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/41 "2022-03-09T20:29:58Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Modern notions of ‘firewood’ are often neat little split pieces of log that you can pick up with one hand and place into a wood stove or fireplace, but if you’re feeding an open fire on the ground, or inside a hut, etc, it’s not necessary to cut the wood so small In addition to that, bundling up smaller sticks makes them burn longer, usually. Lots of people have used such bundles throughout history. Repurposes otherwise scrap wood as useful fuel. [https://www.courant.com/ctnow/hc-stick-bundles-20131213-story.html](https://www.courant.com/ctnow/hc-stick-bundles-20131213-story.html) ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/42 "2022-03-09T20:33:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This YouTube channel shows a guy building all sorts of things without the benefit of metal tools (he makes everything he needs from what he finds in the forest). Including just chopping wood (you see him do it in the first 10 seconds in the video below). Not related to the OP, but for anyone watching this guy’s videos, make sure to turn on the “closed caption” feature. It provides a description about many of the things he is doing. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/43 "2022-03-09T20:54:57Z")
Keep in mind people in ages past wouldn’t need as much firewood as we like to have in a modern first-world home. They didn’t just sit around shivering all day during the winter, they’d be up and about living life outside during the day and wouldn’t need a fire at all for most of the day. When I worked consulting in Northern Alberta during the winter one of my jobs was to spend about 10 hours per day walking a several-mile trail and chipping through a frozen river every 2 hours to take water samples while a rig drilled under the creek. Even at -25C I’d generate enough body heat to keep warm trudging through the snow and doing a moderate (at most) amount of physical labour. I didn’t worry about getting cold, I’d worry about running out of energy to keep moving (which is when you start to get cold). With adequate food and clothing people don’t need outside heat sources when they are active. Also as others have mentioned firewood doesn’t have to be the trunks of large trees cut and split; smaller branches breakable by hand burn too. People still gather this type of firewood today: [Here](https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/young-wood-collector-african-girl-carrying-collected-firewood-on-her-head-rakops-republic-of-botswana-africa/IBR-1500416), and [here.](https://www.alamy.com/africa-mali-dogon-region-woman-carrying-firewood-with-children-image3800300.html) Yes those photos come from warm parts of the world but they still show how people can gather firewood with minimal or no tools at all. The fire is mostly for cooking and to keep warm during the transition from your active day to the chilly waking hours of sitting around resting. Once you went to bed you’d be under blankets/furs and possibly cuddled up with other people. Body heat keeps you warm through the night; a fire isn’t necessary or even helpful when you’ve insulated yourself. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/44 "2022-03-09T21:04:26Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yeah, attitudes are clearly different. Spending the whole winter snowed in with all your family and neighbors, with no TV, or books, or recorded music, sounds to modern people like a great set up for a disaster movie or horror movie, not “everyday life”. My Wife and I call that Chess? Cribbage? or Gin Rummy? We already play about 10-12 games a week. I think it’s important to know how to entertain yourselves. Knowing that retirement is on the horizon, I am teaching myself guitar. I may learn a song before I’m dead. I’m really, really bad. But it pleases me. Bought some more oil lamps for when the power goes out. Power doesn’t go out very often though. I’m sure it would get rough after a few days. Reading by lamp/candle light would be rough. I would really miss my Kindle. That Long Fire is interesting @Stranger_On_A_Train ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/45 "2022-03-09T21:08:13Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > Keep in mind people in ages past wouldn’t need as much firewood as we like to have in a modern first-world home. They didn’t just sit around shivering all day during the winter, they’d be up and about living life outside during the day and wouldn’t need a fire at all for most of the day. True. If it’s light, you’re outside finding food, making stuff, etc, pretty much all of the available daylight time. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/46 "2022-03-09T22:16:33Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Anyone notice the guys doing the primitive activities aren’t exactly 98# weaklings?! 😵 My GOD - but that one guy is ripped! I was wondering about the energy he used to lift that freaking boulder to drop on the lengths of wood - as opposed to the energy he would derive from the length of wood… People who grow up in a society in which doing a great deal of physical work is routine behavior develop a degree of strength which is rare in modern humans. Even those modern humans who spend time in gyms carefully developing defined muscles usually only spend a limited amount of time at it. I knew a number of farmers, male and female, who grew up farming during the first part of the 20th century, when most of the work now generally done by machine was done by hand. They were often not very large, and didn’t look particularly muscular, at least with their clothes on (I never saw most of them with their shirts off.) When I knew them, they were mostly in their 70’s and 80’s – and were still immensely strong; though they’d occasionally complain that they couldn’t do what they could when they were younger – such as spending all day going up and down ladders, rapidly, carrying on each trip up two bundles of shingles, 100 lbs each. The man who told me this looked like he probably weighed about 120 lbs himself. > [@Kimstu](#): > > The Townsends videos do have several middle-aged/elderly/heavy/female people helping make the bricks and split the logs and tote the barrows and all I’ve seen a fat middle-aged female farmer (who grew up in the 50’s) throw 60 to 70 lb haybales up into a loft. I do mean throw, up well over her head and some distance. Not once or twice – over and over, without pausing, until the wagon was empty. After which, she moved on to another job. (I couldn’t do that myself, even when I was middle-aged instead of old; I could move those bales, and do it for quite a while, but I couldn’t throw them like that. I didn’t start young enough. While sedentary people can get stronger at any age if they’re healthy, you have to start putting the muscle on in your teens to really get up to your peak genetic capability.) > [@Kimstu](#): > > the old proverb says, “Man who chops own firewood is twice warmed.” More like three times. You’ve also got to haul it. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is there any explanation in the videos of why he made his axe of stone rather than flint? Flint is a stone 🙂 . I don’t know the characteristics of flint for axes – maybe it breaks too easily? But using stone tools is also partly a matter of using what stone’s to hand – people did move good stone long distances, but also used a lot of local stuff. > [@Horatius](#): > > Spending the whole winter snowed in with all your family and neighbors, with no TV, or books, or recorded music We are the species that tells stories. People who haven’t had TV or books don’t miss them. And they made music. (Also, I would guess, winter was a good time to make musical instruments; among a lot of other things.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/47 "2022-03-09T22:30:38Z")
I’ve slept, outside, in the winter, in a shelter I made myself that day in a couple of hours, with no fire at all, just my own body heat. It wasn’t as cozy as my own bed at home, but I was at no risk of hypothermia or frostbite. The shelter was basically a tube just barely big enough to fit my sleeping bag and me in it, and made from a fallen log propped on a stump with pine branches, mud, and snow piled up against it. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/48 "2022-03-09T22:38:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is there any explanation in the videos of why he made his axe of stone rather than flint? While flint has a much sharper edge than stone, does it split if used to chop down a tree? Flint, especially nodules that are good for splitting for tool use, is not available in all locations. Another hard stone, while still not universal, is still workable, even if you don’t have access to high quality flint. There is remarkable evidence of early flint trading, which a quick review on ye olde [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint) has the basics of. > During the Stone Age, access to flint was so important for survival that people would travel or trade to obtain flint. [Flint Ridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_Ridge_State_Memorial) in [Ohio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio) was an important source of flint and [Native Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas) extracted the flint from hundreds of quarries along the ridge. This “Ohio Flint” was traded across the eastern United States and has been found as far west as the [Rocky Mountains](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountains) and south around the [Gulf of Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico).[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint#cite_note-5) It’s similar to the old saw of why have a quarry for non-precious stone for building, not all stone has the same properties. Flint is uniquely suited (okay, obsidian as well) for making sharp blades, but depending on treatment, can be quite brittle as well. And the skill to knap a quality blade for different applications is amazing. Just like with a metal tool, you want a different style of edge for a knife, a spear, an axe, and for sub-specialties of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/49 "2022-03-10T02:21:53Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I didn’t start young enough. While sedentary people can get stronger at any age if they’re healthy, you have to start putting the muscle on in your teens to really get up to your peak genetic capability. Absolutely. I myself, though far from farmer-superpower level, had the advantage of being made to do a lot of construction, digging, woodchopping, and just general toting and hauling in my childhood and teens. Nearly half a century later I’m still reaping the residual benefits of that early physical strengthening. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/50 "2022-03-10T05:45:18Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > It’s similar to the old saw of why have a quarry for non-precious stone for building, not all stone has the same properties. Flint is uniquely suited (okay, obsidian as well) for making sharp blades, but depending on treatment, can be quite brittle as well. And the skill to knap a quality blade for different applications is amazing. Just like with a metal tool, you want a different style of edge for a knife, a spear, an axe, and for sub-specialties of the above. That was my thought. The whole point of flint was that, struck at the right angle with another rock, it would flake off in such a manner as to make a very sharp knife-like edge. that characteristic suggests it’s not well suited for hammering things (or being hammered as a chisel or wedge). rather, it scrapes and slices very well. Find a suitable chunk of some less fragile stone to hammer or chop wood with. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/51 "2022-03-10T07:38:46Z")
Polished stone (including polished flint!) became the [preferred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langdale_axe_industry) [material](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-last_celt) for the chopping kind of woodworking, specifically, even in societies that used [knapped](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapping) flint/chert/obsidian blades for other tools like knives and arrowheads. There are [mechanical reasons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langdale_axe_industry#Petrographic_analysis) for this relating to stress and brittleness. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > Flint […] is not available in all locations In Middle Stone Age South Africa, this led to [heat-treated quartzite and silcrete](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0163874) being the ubiquitous stones used. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/52 "2022-03-10T07:59:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > my sleeping bag I think that makes a lot of difference, modern sleeping bags are little insulating shelters all by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/53 "2022-03-10T08:45:25Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Dung fires aren’t especially good for you, especially in an enclosed space, but you do what you’ve gotta do. I’m curious… why are dung fires bad for you? Is it the pathogens? Doesn’t the heat kill them? Is it something else? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/54 "2022-03-10T11:32:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Polished stone (including polished flint!) became the [preferred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langdale_axe_industry) [material](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-last_celt) for the chopping kind of woodworking, specifically, even in societies that used [knapped](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapping) flint/chert/obsidian blades for other tools like knives and arrowheads. There are [mechanical reasons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langdale_axe_industry#Petrographic_analysis) for this relating to stress and brittleness. Pretty much spot on. Where it was available, fine grained hard igneous stone was used for axes, and often good material would be traded hundreds or even thousands of km either as blanks or finished product. Polishing by abrading the stone takes a long time, but you end up with a tool that lasts. When the impact edge is properly angled the energy from chopping is dissipated in a way that doesn’t take chips off the edge. We know from work done with traditional stone tool users in Australia that they understood the mechanics well, and had clear preferences between good and so-so axes relating to their ergonomics, handling and effectiveness. The same people also know when not to bother and just pick up a natural chunk of stone with the right sort of edge and just bash the bejesus out of a stending tree until it submits to their will. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/55 "2022-03-10T11:46:41Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I’m curious… why are dung fires bad for you? Is it the pathogens? Doesn’t the heat kill them? Is it something else? Biomass fires tend to produce a lot of particulate matter that embeds in alveoli and inhibits lung function, and mammalian feces in particular has a lot of contaminants that produce irritant gases. This is bad enough in open air (waste disposal burn pits, sugar cane burning, et cetera) but is especially problematic when used for cooking and heating in poorly ventilated dwellings. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/56 "2022-03-10T13:47:36Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > When I was a scout, fire making was all flint/steel. You sure your dad used other methods? Well, he was in Scouting before you were, probably. About 1939 to about 1946. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/57 "2022-03-10T13:59:56Z")
Note that cutting trees is not the only way to burn wood. simply collecting sticks and breaking them up is a pretty standard way to get fuel for fire Google: collecting firewood images [collecting firewood images - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=collecting+firewood+images) and see how non-industrialized societies gather wood ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/58 "2022-03-10T14:00:44Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It’s been a while since I watched though. He hasn’t uploaded anything for a long time. Good news! After a two year hiatus, he published [a new video last week](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tZLCCLMws4&t=270s)! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/59 "2022-03-10T14:48:06Z")
One thing to note is that you don’t need to _constantly_ chop down _big_ trees for wood. [Coppicing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing#History) is known to have been practiced [in the Neolithic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Track#Construction). That process produces smaller-diameter timber, ideal for firewood. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694/60 "2022-03-10T22:00:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think that makes a lot of difference, modern sleeping bags are little insulating shelters all by themselves. True, but my sleeping bag wasn’t one of those high-tech modern ones; it was just the standard cheap blanket-lined-with-another-blanket, folded over and with a zipper on the side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wood-gathering-before-metal-tools/960694.md?page=4)