# Woodworkers: have you had your fingers saved by a SawStop? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443 "2014-10-15T21:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/1 "2014-10-15T21:41:15Z")
Several years ago a company began marketing a line of table saws called SawStop, with an ingenious mechanism that could distinguish between wood and flesh. If flesh made contact with the spinning sawblade, a brake would simultaneously stop the blade and use its own momentum to retract it below the tabletop in a fraction of a second, inflicting nothing more than a nick. [Impressive demonstration here.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk&feature=player_detailpage#t=92) I’ve never seen the system get tested with an actual finger before - until later in that video, at the 4:00 mark. However, he does it in a very controlled manner, just barely lowering his finger tip against the top of the blade. A real-life tablesaw screwup is likely to happen with fingers moving quite a bit faster than that, e.g. during a kickback or a stumble of some sort. I wonder if the system can still retract the blade in time to avoid a severe injury in those cases. The saws are expensive - several thousand dollars instead of several hundred dollars. I’m sure some of this covers R&D, but I’ll bet a good portion is for product liability insurance. Either way, I don’t own one. Do you? Have your fingers been saved from damage or amputation by this saw? Curious to hear your story. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/2 "2014-10-15T21:44:23Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Do you? Have your fingers been saved from damage or amputation by this saw? Curious to hear your story. The failures may have a bit of trouble typing a reply. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/3 "2014-10-15T21:44:47Z")
Reported for possible spam. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/4 "2014-10-15T21:49:40Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Reported for possible spam. 😕 I can’t tell if that’s an ingenious pun, or if you really believe I’m shilling for SawStop. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/5 "2014-10-15T21:55:17Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Reported for possible spam. Why would this be spam? Machine Elf is a long time poster asking a reasonable question. I don’t know if anyone can demonstrate that they saved a finger because of a SawStop but if I was a professional woodworker I’d want one. Machine Elf, the costs of Saw Stop cabinet saws are comparable to similar equipment. I don’t know if they make smaller units, but quality cabinet saws start in the thousands of dollars. Rockler sells a 3HP 10" Saw Stop for $2900 , a Jet 3HP 10" sells for $2295. The $600 difference could easily be accounted for in the quality and utility of the machines, and of course the Saw Stop not cutting your fingers off. ETA: I guess the spam remark could be humorous. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/6 "2014-10-15T21:59:55Z")
I’ve seen articles on Sawstop. I’m dubious that the blade could stop quickly enough to avoid significant injury. this manufacturer lists rpms for their blades and gives a formula for SFPM (surface feet per minute). I guess thats how fast the blade is actually turning. Lets just say that blade is spinning fast. 😉 Even if Sawstop works in a 1/8 second, that blade will still chew somebody up. > **[Circular-Saw-Blade-Speed-Chart - Vermont American](https://vermontamerican.com/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/)** ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/7 "2014-10-15T22:15:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve seen articles on Sawstop. I’m dubious that the blade could stop quickly enough to avoid significant injury. > > this manufacturer lists rpms for their blades and gives a formula for SFPM (surface feet per minute). I guess thats how fast the blade is actually turning. Lets just say that blade is spinning fast. 😉 Even if Sawstop works in a 1/8 second, that blade will still chew somebody up. > [http://vermontamerican.com/article/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/](http://vermontamerican.com/article/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/) I don’t think they’ve ever said you’d be injury free. That’s why it’s difficult to determine if someone actually saved a finger, they might not have severed a finger on a conventional saw. Still, it seems likely that that someone has ended up with a cut instead of an amputation since these saws have been out for a while and are being used. I haven’t considered one, me with just a few hours of table saw usage per year (if that much) I can simply be careful. Someone using a saw frequently day in and day out is more likely to avoid serious injury using one of these. Nobody wants to lose a finger, but a single finger is a minor injury in the trade. There are plenty of guys with no fingers left on one hand or worse due a slip or trip, or hard as it is to believe, simple inattention. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/8 "2014-10-15T22:19:43Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > 😕 > > I can’t tell if that’s an ingenious pun, or if you really believe I’m shilling for SawStop. Sorry, I’m withdrawing that. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/9 "2014-10-15T22:42:16Z")
This inquiry might be a decade or more behind-the-times. A good many years ago, one of the in-depth news programs on network TV (20/20? 60 minutes?) had a feature about an apparent rash of lawsuits by professional woodworkers against their employers. The gist of the feature was that there was a law firm watching Workers Comp reports and focusing on table-saw accidents, then helping the injured workers file big award lawsuits against the company owners. The meat of the claims was that, by not retrofitting their equipment with a Saw-Stop device, the owners were to be blamed for the worker’s damaged hand. The law firm was basically breaking even on their trial wins and losses but was generally making a net profit off the research, which was paid for by – you guessed it – the Saw Stop manufacturers. The network news feature was basically exposing the practice as ethically questionable. They were suggesting that the ultimate goal of the research + lawsuits was to scare the woodworking industry into buying Saw-Stop retrofits or replacing their existing equipment with Saw-Stop machines. After that expose, the Saw-Stop lawsuits started being decided against the worker, with a lot of judges saying there’s just no device that can substitute for proper tool usage habits and the kind of training and experience that qualifies a person for a job in the woodworking industry. [As someone else has already noted above, the Saw-Stop is an expensive unit and a more expensive retrofit; one that the average hobbyist can’t afford and learns to do without – by learning proper work habits.] So while the worker could collect insurance for the accident, they couldn’t sue the employer for failing to install an expensive retrofit (or stand-alone machine) that the worker would not have needed anyway if he/she were using his/her brain and following standard shop training/practices. –G! Whenever we make something foolproof Someone starts making a better fool. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/10 "2014-10-15T22:46:27Z")
Cool gadget, but apparently useless for chopping up a body Mafia-style. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/11 "2014-10-15T23:09:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The failures may have a bit of trouble typing a reply. 😃 that’s funny. **produced by IBM ViaVoice** \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/12 "2014-10-15T23:10:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve seen articles on Sawstop. I’m dubious that the blade could stop quickly enough to avoid significant injury. > > this manufacturer lists rpms for their blades and gives a formula for SFPM (surface feet per minute). I guess thats how fast the blade is actually turning. Lets just say that blade is spinning fast. 😉 Even if Sawstop works in a 1/8 second, that blade will still chew somebody up. > [http://vermontamerican.com/article/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/](http://vermontamerican.com/article/circular-saw-blade-speed-chart/) The device works within milliseconds. The big problem is, it’s destructive to the saw, so although it’s a nice idea, it’s too expensive for everyday use (IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/13 "2014-10-15T23:20:26Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I’ve never seen the system get tested with an actual finger before - until later in that video, at the 4:00 mark. However, he does it in a very controlled manner, just barely lowering his finger tip against the top of the blade. A real-life tablesaw screwup is likely to happen with fingers moving quite a bit faster than that, e.g. during a kickback or a stumble of some sort. I wonder if the system can still retract the blade in time to avoid a severe injury in those cases. The hotdog demo answers this, I think - the Frankfurter is moving pretty fast into the blade, and only suffers a tiny graze - fingers are a little bit tougher than that, so should fare a little better. I guess in the extreme case that the saw was running and you tripped and dived at high speed onto the running blade, fingers-first, you might still get a bit of a cut. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/14 "2014-10-15T23:24:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve seen articles on Sawstop. I’m dubious that the blade could stop quickly enough to avoid significant injury. > > this manufacturer lists rpms for their blades and gives a formula for SFPM (surface feet per minute). I guess thats how fast the blade is actually turning. Lets just say that blade is spinning fast. 😉 Even if Sawstop works in a 1/8 second, that blade will still chew somebody up. Did you watch the video linked in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/15 "2014-10-15T23:28:00Z")
I know a woodworker who uses one - he’s blind. > **[Blind N.D. carpenter claims magazine prize](https://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/blind-n-d-carpenter-claims-magazine-prize/article_d266bf5e-aaa3-11e0-b063-001cc4c002e0.html)** > > A hand grenade claimed Dean Pedersen's sight in the Vietnam War, but it didn't stop him from pursuing a career in carpentry. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/16 "2014-10-15T23:48:10Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The device works within milliseconds. > > The big problem is, it’s destructive to the saw, so although it’s a nice idea, it’s too expensive for everyday use (IMHO). It’s only a $60 repair. If you can afford thousands for one of those saws, you can afford $60 if it saves your finger from being amputated. Medical costs from sawing your finger off are going to be more than the cost of the saw. Unless you’re a total klutz, how often are you going to run your fingers into a moving saw blade? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/17 "2014-10-15T23:50:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > It’s only a $60 repair. If you can afford thousands for one of those saws, you can afford $60 if it saves your finger from being amputated. Medical costs from sawing your finger off are going to be more than the cost of the saw. Unless you’re a total klutz, how often are you going to run your fingers into a moving saw blade? Twice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/18 "2014-10-15T23:59:28Z")
I’ve personally known two people who have lost portions of fingers on table saws. I don’t have the blade-stopping technology, but am extra-vigilant when using my table saw. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/19 "2014-10-16T00:06:51Z")
When they demo them, they use a hot dog. And the hot dog doesn’t have a scratch on it. (And if you go to a dealer with intent to buy, I bet they’ll ruin a $60 blade for you). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443/20 "2014-10-16T00:21:29Z")
The video demos are impressive. I’ve cut myself before just handling and changing a saw blade. The teeth are so sharp. Doesn’t take much contact at all. But, I can see this device saving a lot of fingers. The only concern is people still need to be extra cautious around saws. Never depend on any safety device to save you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woodworkers-have-you-had-your-fingers-saved-by-a-sawstop/701443.md?page=2)