# Woody Allen Is A Scumbag (rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489 "2003-09-29T15:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/221 "2014-02-04T02:56:38Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Oh, and by the way, I DO in fact think falsely accusing someone is repugnant. I just don’t think it’s MORE repugnant than actually, you know, MOLESTING CHILDREN. If you didn’t get that from my posts, then you’re the dumbass, not me. Pure and utter bullshit from you. You’ve been pounding the drum of wanting Allen’s life ruined because of what, to all indications, is a false accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/222 "2014-02-04T03:05:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Pure and utter bullshit from you. You’ve been pounding the drum of wanting Allen’s life ruined because of what, to all indications, is a false accusation. His life will never, ever be ruined by this even if it was proven true, so you don’t need to shed any tears for him. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/223 "2014-02-04T03:06:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not sure how anyone would be able to pick that up from your posts in this thread. How about… > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > And anyone who is molested will have their lives ruined too. _ **Also** _ fairly repugnant, don’t you think? _ **Also** _ repugnant is the gaslighting and accusations of lying, but no one seems to thing there’s anything wrong with that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/224 "2014-02-04T03:10:46Z")
By the way, say someone (not necessarily Allen) is falsely accused of child molestation, is prosecuted for it, convicted, and sent to prison. While he’s in prison, some “do-gooder” decides to “make things right” and kills the guy who was imprisoned based on a false accusation. Seems to me that should be on the same level of being repugnant (sorry, couldn’t determine the appropriate noun form) as any other abhorrent crime. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/225 "2014-02-04T03:11:27Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > There IS/WAS evidence, enough to bring him up on charges in the opinion of the prosecutor. The fact that it didn’t happen isn’t evidence that the crime itself didn’t happen. Er, yes. The lack of an indictment following an accusation of a crime **IS** to some extent “evidence that the crime didn’t happen”. Not proof, not conclusive evidence, but definitely evidence of a sort. I’m keeping an open mind here that Allen certainly **may** have been guilty of a crime and got away with it. But I can’t fathom why you seem to consider it somehow unfair to his accusers, or to molestation victims in general, not to believe on their bare unsupported assertion that he **was** in fact guilty of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/226 "2014-02-04T03:12:18Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > His life will never, ever be ruined by this even if it was proven true, so you don’t need to shed any tears for him. Oh, so it’s just Allen being falsely accused you don’t care about. All the other folks who’ve been falsely accused of crimes deserve presumption of innocence, proper judicial proceedings, and to not have the public condemn them, hey? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/227 "2014-02-04T03:15:49Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Also repugnant is the […] accusations of lying, but no one seems to thing there’s anything wrong with that stuff. Of course everybody thinks that falsely accusing somebody of lying is a repugnant thing to do. Accusing somebody of lying when they _are_ lying, on the other hand, is not only perfectly honorable but also highly advisable. Anyway, if somebody happens to be falsely accused of child molestation, how are they supposed to deny it without accusing their accuser of lying? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/228 "2014-02-04T03:34:33Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Yes, of course. I just think it shows what’s wrong with this world. Everyone jumps to the “crazy mother” explanation and not the “abusive father” explanation. There’s no more evidence of one than the other, but people let him off scot-free while vilifying her. If there is no evidence of course you should go with the default assumption of innocence, the only thing that is wrong here is that some people feel an accusation is all that is necessary to destroy a life. You are thinking about this as if it was two equal sides and people are just picking the alleged accused because… because fuck children i guess? that’s complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/229 "2014-02-04T03:50:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Er, yes. The lack of an indictment following an accusation of a crime **IS** to some extent “evidence that the crime didn’t happen”. > > Not proof, not conclusive evidence, but definitely evidence of a sort. > > I’m keeping an open mind here that Allen certainly **may** have been guilty of a crime and got away with it. But I can’t fathom why you seem to consider it somehow unfair to his accusers, or to molestation victims in general, not to believe on their bare unsupported assertion that he **was** in fact guilty of the crime. Because here’s the thing. It’s not that I don’t believe in presumption of innocence, and it’s not that I don’t believe that there’s a (small) chance that Woody himself is innocent. I just don’t understand what evidence people think that there ought to be. I mean, seriously, assume this crime happened. How is it supposed to be proved? And how easy is it for an intelligent adult to make it seem like the child is confused/mistaken? Children actually don’t just make this stuff up. Children sometimes ARE confused because they don’t know what exactly is making them uncomfortable and then they figure it out later. Dylan’s story rang very true to me, and Woody does not demonstrate proper boundaries. Just because they chose not to prosecute doesn’t mean there isn’t a smoking gun. To be honest, I think this poor girl has a molester father and a crazy mother, and because of the crazy mother she didn’t get justice, and that fucking sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/230 "2014-02-04T03:56:19Z")
Ah, you believe there is a small chance he’s innocent? That would be reasonable doubt then. Shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/231 "2014-02-04T03:56:31Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Because here’s the thing. It’s not that I don’t believe in presumption of innocence, and it’s not that I don’t believe that there’s a (small) chance that Woody himself is innocent. I just don’t understand what evidence people think that there ought to be. I mean, seriously, assume this crime happened. How is it supposed to be proved? And how easy is it for an intelligent adult to make it seem like the child is confused/mistaken? Children actually don’t just make this stuff up. Children sometimes ARE confused because they don’t know what exactly is making them uncomfortable and then they figure it out later. Dylan’s story rang very true to me, and Woody does not demonstrate proper boundaries. Just because they chose not to prosecute doesn’t mean there isn’t a smoking gun. To be honest, I think this poor girl has a molester father and a crazy mother, and because of the crazy mother she didn’t get justice, and that fucking sucks. children do make such stories up. this is well documented. that is not to say most stories are made up. only that it does happen. and you just said it didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/232 "2014-02-04T04:01:35Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > I think it’s pretty evident to say that getting involved with your girlfriend’s adopted daughter who is 30 years younger than yourself; it’s just wrong. Maybe legal, but unequivocally WRONG. That’s not evident to me at all. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that you take a case like that, built on the foundation of 'well he did SOMETHING awful, maybe he did something else even worse. A guy who’d fuck his teenager almost-stepdaughter might be capable of anything. Of all the crazy things being said in this thread … You can disagree over whether or not you think Woody Allen is guilty of the accusations, but this line of reasoning is absolute pure bullshit. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > OJ & Woody both made one stupid, unforgivable move. They critized their children’s mother. This is an outrage, and puts them forever on my go to hell list. > > I don’t care what she did, she is still your children’s mother. Keep your negative comments to yourself. And this is the other piece of 100 percent bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/233 "2014-02-04T04:05:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > children do make such stories up. this is well documented. that is not to say most stories are made up. only that it does happen. and you just said it didn’t. Sorry, I actually meant to say, don’t typically make this stuff up. I know it does happen sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/234 "2014-02-04T04:06:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, you believe there is a small chance he’s innocent? That would be reasonable doubt then. Shut the fuck up. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/235 "2014-02-04T04:08:31Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > :rolleyes: Ah, yes, roll your eyes at the presumption of innocence. Good luck when you or someone you love gets falsely accused of something. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/236 "2014-02-04T04:12:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, yes, roll your eyes at the presumption of innocence. Good luck when you or someone you love gets falsely accused of something. I know what reasonable doubt is and that’s not what I’m rolling my eyes at. I’m rolling my eyes at someone who should try shutting the fuck up because they can’t read. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/237 "2014-02-04T04:14:31Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Oh, and by the way, I DO in fact think falsely accusing someone is repugnant. I just don’t think it’s MORE repugnant than actually, you know, MOLESTING CHILDREN. If you didn’t get that from my posts, then you’re the dumbass, not me. But these two things could not have both happened. “More repugnant” implies that both happened and one is worse than the other, but this is an either/or thing. Either he did it or he didn’t and the police/lawyers/psychiatrists all agree that he did not. I’ve read all of your posts and it seems to me you’re saying ok sure, falsely accusing someone of child molestation is bad, but a child who claims she’s been molested should always be believed no matter what. If you believe that some accusations are false (even a small number) then it follows that not all accusers should be believed. This is why we have the police/lawyers/psychiatrists. In other words, you know all those sneaky tricks for getting out of jury duty you hear about? Please use all of them every time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/238 "2014-02-04T04:17:18Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Because here’s the thing. It’s not that I don’t believe in presumption of innocence, and it’s not that I don’t believe that there’s a (small) chance that Woody himself is innocent. I just don’t understand what evidence people think that there ought to be. I mean, seriously, assume this crime happened. How is it supposed to be proved? Physical evidence, forensic interviewing, any other investigation procedures. I’m not saying that such investigations are foolproof, far from it, but it’s not like investigations don’t happen. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Children actually don’t just make this stuff up. Except sometimes they do. You simply cannot declare conclusively that all such allegations should automatically be considered true. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Dylan’s story rang very true to me, and Woody does not demonstrate proper boundaries. Just because they chose not to prosecute doesn’t mean there isn’t a smoking gun. To be honest, I think this poor girl has a molester father and a crazy mother, and because of the crazy mother she didn’t get justice, and that fucking sucks. That certainly would suck if it happens to be true, and it’s certainly possible that it is true. But it’s not reasonable to resent other people because they don’t share your gut reactions on this matter. I hold no brief for Woody Allen’s personal integrity and I do know that many children are molested by family members, but I can’t really empathize with your personal feelings of conviction on this issue. It even sounds a little kooky to me for some stranger on the internet to feel so strongly that a certain take on the long-ago domestic traumas of a particular celebrity family filtered through the news and gossip media “rang very true”. How would you know, and why should anyone else care what your opinion is? I say this not to be hurtful or dismissive, but to illustrate why it’s so important to maintain the presumption of innocence even in accusations of dreadful crimes where there may be a substantial power imbalance between the alleged perpetrator and the alleged victim. Outsiders’ feelings about that sort of thing are bound to be arbitrary and idiosyncratic, and we’re very apt to be misled by our own strong reactions. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/239 "2014-02-04T04:20:08Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Sorry, I actually meant to say, don’t typically make this stuff up. I know it does happen sometimes. vindictive mother. unstable mother. actress mother. all three of these increase the chance that the ideas were falsely planted in her head by her mother. really though this is no business being public record. i know it is a bad idea to think of trials in secret but al of this being public just hurts dylan. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489/240 "2014-02-04T04:34:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Physical evidence, forensic interviewing, any other investigation procedures. I’m not saying that such investigations are foolproof, far from it, but it’s not like investigations don’t happen. > > Except sometimes they do. You simply cannot declare conclusively that all such allegations should automatically be considered true. > > That certainly would suck if it happens to be true, and it’s certainly possible that it is true. But it’s not reasonable to resent other people because they don’t share your gut reactions on this matter. > > I hold no brief for Woody Allen’s personal integrity and I do know that many children are molested by family members, but I can’t really empathize with your personal feelings of conviction on this issue. It even sounds a little kooky to me for some stranger on the internet to feel so strongly that a certain take on the long-ago domestic traumas of a particular celebrity family filtered through the news and gossip media “rang very true”. How would you know, and why should anyone else care what your opinion is? > > I say this not to be hurtful or dismissive, but to illustrate why it’s so important to maintain the presumption of innocence even in accusations of dreadful crimes where there may be a substantial power imbalance between the alleged perpetrator and the alleged victim. Outsiders’ feelings about that sort of thing are bound to be arbitrary and idiosyncratic, and we’re very apt to be misled by our own strong reactions. Well, of course, and I can’t stress enough that I am not talking about criminal convictions, no matter how many people here say that I shouldn’t participate in jury trials (again: :rolleyes:) This is a message board, not a court of law, I really think it’s ok to give my gut opinion regardless of presumption of innocence. The part that rang true was her description that she published yesterday or the day before. Her description and her plea for people to listen seem very sincere to me. Does that mean it for sure happened? No, not necessarily. But I don’t think my reactions on this thread are any more kooky than the people who are telling me that I’m a dumbass and that I should shut the fuck up because I think it’s just as bad to molest children than it is to lie about it, and that either one of those scenarios is at best equally likely in this case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woody-allen-is-a-scumbag-rant/204489.md?page=13)