# Woohoo! Nearly $10 Trillian in Handouts for Wall St.! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366 "2008-11-25T02:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/61 "2008-11-27T00:05:53Z")
Obama has stated that he’s not going to increase taxes _immediately_ and has hinted he’ll wait for the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2011. He has said also that he’s looking at ways to cut “government waste.” Whether or not he’ll do these things is yet to be seen. We also, at present, have no idea of how he’s going to increase spending, though it seem unlikely that if he does, that he’ll simply be cutting Haliburton a blank check. If he spends the money _here_ in the US, on thing like infrastructure, as he claims he intends to do, that’ll have a bigger effect on our economy than pouring it into Iraq or the banking industry. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/62 "2008-11-27T01:47:49Z")
This is great news. I had a feeling the system would collapse, so I insured a bunch of loans that I don’t actually own. The idea was that when my actions, and the actions of those like me, crashed the system, I would get paid off like I won the lottery. My only fear was that after destroying the system, it might not be able to pay me. Thankfully, the taxpayers are making sure I get paid. I am currently pulling in unthinkable amounts of money. I can literally fill my olympic sized pool with hundreds and swim in it. More than anyone, I deserve to get paid off. The taxpayers don’t deserve thanks for paying me, they are just doing what they are supposed to do. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/63 "2008-11-27T02:09:38Z")
> [@ApexRogers](#): > > The current estimate for the US population is 305,000,000. [http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html](http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html) > > Taking 300 million as a round number, we multiply that by $150,000 we get $45,000,000,000,000, or 45 trillion dollars. > > So economic arguments aside (inflation, etc.) this idea wouldn’t even work. Silly, you’re forgetting the money would be restricted to white, land owning\* male adults. - ‘land owning’ includes condo owners of course. I want my piece. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/64 "2008-11-27T02:29:14Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > This is great news. > > I had a feeling the system would collapse, so I insured a bunch of loans that I don’t actually own. The idea was that when my actions, and the actions of those like me, crashed the system, I would get paid off like I won the lottery. > > My only fear was that after destroying the system, it might not be able to pay me. > > Thankfully, the taxpayers are making sure I get paid. I am currently pulling in unthinkable amounts of money. I can literally fill my olympic sized pool with hundreds and swim in it. > > More than anyone, I deserve to get paid off. The taxpayers don’t deserve thanks for paying me, they are just doing what they are supposed to do. You are an asshole. Anyway, this crisis brings me back so many memories: 1.In 2001 during the height of Argentina´s financial crisis the goverment came up with an idea “Plating the economy”, that is giving financial institutions 20.000 millions dollars in order to “protect” the economy. That money evaporated in a couple of days. 2.- Then congress actually passed a law that guaranted that bank deposits wouldn´t be confiscated by the state. Of course, considering that the constitution already said that (right of property) it was pretty weird… a couple of days later the state confiscated the deposits. 3.- Afterwards the american secretary of treasure (an idiot whith glasses, I don´t remember his name) said that the american carpenters shouldn´t bail us. He actually mocked us. 4.- Then we were fucked and utterly alone. You are more lucky. You are in step 1. Call back when the chinese economic minister starts lecturing. Don’t worry, someway you’ll get through this hell I have every confidence and also much more experience than all of you put together in this kind of situations (if you choose the path of revolution I want the idiot with glasess dead). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/65 "2008-11-27T18:17:49Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > You are an asshole.\ Do you understand that **Carmady** was probably posting sarcastically? ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/66 "2008-11-27T18:44:00Z")
You are probably right Featherlou. If that is so the joke is on me and I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/67 "2008-11-27T19:13:58Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > He has said also that he’s looking at ways to cut “government waste.” Whether or not he’ll do these things is yet to be seen. Talking about cutting “government waste” is standard issue boilerplate for politicians. It is code-speak for ‘I intend cuts that will be painless’. There are no such cuts, so it means he is not going to cut anything. And Obama has gone beyond saying he is not going to raise taxes immediately. He said that he was going to cut taxes on 95% of us - > [@](#): > > middle-class tax cuts would be “a two-fer” that provides short-term stimulus while “laying the groundwork for long-term economic growth.” > > “That is going to put money into the pockets of the middle class and will help them in spending for their basic needs,” Obama said. “That can help the economy. The sooner we do that the better. I repeat - the idea that we can cut taxes now to stimulate the economy, in response to a recession, is strongly reminiscent of a certain President who is nearly unanimously excoriated for his economic policies, and their effect on spending and the deficit. Obama is supposed to be different. I don’t see how he is. > [@](#): > > We also, at present, have no idea of how he’s going to increase spending, though it seem unlikely that if he does, that he’ll simply be cutting Haliburton a blank check. You do realize, do you not, that the last time Halliburton got government contracts when a Democrat was President, Al Gore’s commission on reinventing government praised it as something to be emulated? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/68 "2008-11-28T00:57:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Talking about cutting “government waste” is standard issue boilerplate for politicians. It is code-speak for ‘I intend cuts that will be painless’. There are no such cuts, so it means he is not going to cut anything. Possible, but given that he’s not taken office, we don’t know. As for there _not_ being any such cuts, that’s a load of bilge water. There’s been discussion about cutting coverage of non-FDA approved drugs, as well as cutting R&D on certain defense programs (which McCain also said he’d cut, while simultainously blasting Obama for suggesting the same thing). > [@](#): > > And Obama has gone beyond saying he is not going to raise taxes immediately. He said that he was going to cut taxes on 95% of us - I repeat - the idea that we can cut taxes now to stimulate the economy, in response to a recession, is strongly reminiscent of a certain President who is nearly unanimously excoriated for his economic policies, and their effect on spending and the deficit. You’ll note that his pledge to cut taxes (which he has _not_ done, as of yet, seeing as how he’s _not_ the President) was made _before_ the economy hit the toilet, and that he was also talking about increasing them on the wealthiest 5% of the nation. > [@](#): > > Obama is supposed to be different. I don’t see how he is. I can’t remember a single president-elect in my lifetime and coming out with a large panel of economic experts to serve as his advisors. > [@](#): > > You do realize, do you not, that the last time Halliburton got government contracts when a Democrat was President, Al Gore’s commission on reinventing government praised it as something to be emulated? How many of those were no-bid contracts? Not that it really matters, seeing as how Gore’s commission was talking about things as they were around a decade ago or more, and things have changed an awful lot, since then? After all, when Gore was VP this nation _wasn’t_ fighting two wars and _didn’t_ have a former Haliburton exec in the Executive Branch. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/69 "2008-11-28T03:06:58Z")
Obama and McCain said what they felt they needed to to get elected. The financial crisis came at a bad time. They could not revamp there entire economic positions in a short time and have faith that they could stick with it. So they both stuck with what they campaigned with. Circumstances have made a new set of circumstances and they are working furiously to come up with a plan. Who knows what they will come up with? But they did not formulate their plans wit this mess in mind. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/70 "2008-11-28T03:19:47Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > I think the liars are the people writing these alarmist articles that group together different plans with vastly different amounts of risk involved. A loan to citibank = risky. Commercial paper = somewhat risky. Money market fund insurance = very low risk. Yet these articles add up the sums, and then pretend it’s likely that it will all go to $0. If this $10 trillion goes to $0, there will be no government, so might as well just buy a cabin now if you think that’s likely. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081128/ap\_on\_bi\_ge/meltdown\_coming\_soon](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081128/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_coming_soon) The hits just keep on coming. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/71 "2008-11-29T17:42:49Z")
If we do not address the mortgages ,it will not be fixed. On CNBC they had people saying that they have agencies in place to start the process. The problem is do they realistically revalue houses,redo the terms of flexible mortgages or extend mortgages for longer periods(like 50 years) to make payments affordable. It is simple. We have to keep people in homes and making payments. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/72 "2008-11-29T18:33:04Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > You’ll note that his pledge to cut taxes (which he has _not_ done, as of yet, seeing as how he’s _not_ the President) was made _before_ the economy hit the toilet, and that he was also talking about increasing them on the wealthiest 5% of the nation. As of a week ago or so, he was still saying - > [@](#): > > However, he stood by his proposal for tax cuts, calling them a stimulus to the economy and a step at “restoring some balance to our tax code over the long term. The immediate needs of the economy and the long-term concerns that we have are not necessarily incompatible,” he said. But believe what you like. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/73 "2008-11-29T20:09:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But believe what you like. It seems to work for you. ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/74 "2008-11-29T22:46:31Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > This is great news. > > I had a feeling the system would collapse, so I insured a bunch of loans that I don’t actually own. The idea was that when my actions, and the actions of those like me, crashed the system, I would get paid off like I won the lottery. > > My only fear was that after destroying the system, it might not be able to pay me. > > Thankfully, the taxpayers are making sure I get paid. I am currently pulling in unthinkable amounts of money. I can literally fill my olympic sized pool with hundreds and swim in it. > > More than anyone, I deserve to get paid off. The taxpayers don’t deserve thanks for paying me, they are just doing what they are supposed to do. Niiice! :: golf clap :: > [@Sunspace](#): > > Could this trigger hyperinflation of the US dollar? Let’s put it this way; we have no possibility of paying off the checks that are being written right now. We don’t have it and we ain’t gonna have it. The standard way of dealing with this is inflation, thus reducing the outstanding debt. But in this case the sheer scale of it means either a brutal round of hyperinflation, or a couple decades of managed inflation. (The current deflation fears are a transient response to severe market shock, but could become a self eating watermelon, different subject.) Our debt holders will knowingly eat a lot of shit because they currently have no alternate market big enough to keep their industry revving. When the Orient generates enough consumer demand to feed it’s own industry, I predict their appetite for our debt will fall sharply. So short term, fire fighting. Mid term, managed inflation. Long term, who the hell knows. I really have no idea if the money managers can keep things on an even keel enough to make even that raggedy-ass plan work. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/75 "2008-11-29T23:11:59Z")
This thread scares the crap out of me for the future. We’ve gone loco as a country. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/76 "2008-11-29T23:37:28Z")
> [@Jaglavak](#): > > Let’s put it this way; we have no possibility of paying off the checks that are being written right now. We don’t have it and we ain’t gonna have it. The standard way of dealing with this is inflation, thus reducing the outstanding debt. But in this case the sheer scale of it means either a brutal round of hyperinflation, or a couple decades of managed inflation. (The current deflation fears are a transient response to severe market shock, but could become a self eating watermelon, different subject.) Our debt holders will knowingly eat a lot of shit because they currently have no alternate market big enough to keep their industry revving. When the Orient generates enough consumer demand to feed it’s own industry, I predict their appetite for our debt will fall sharply. So short term, fire fighting. Mid term, managed inflation. Long term, who the hell knows. I really have no idea if the money managers can keep things on an even keel enough to make even that raggedy-ass plan work. What I don’t understand is that the Chinese are going to be engaging in deficit spending to try and get their economy going, so that means that one of our biggest debt holders is going to be selling their own debt. Who’s going to be buying that? ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/77 "2008-11-30T01:00:45Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > What I don’t understand is that the Chinese are going to be engaging in deficit spending to try and get their economy going, so that means that one of our biggest debt holders is going to be selling their own debt. Who’s going to be buying that? Good question. I speculate it will be mostly Chinese citizens & businesses, and big international investors bailing out of US and Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/78 "2008-11-30T01:29:49Z")
BTW, here’s some fascinating / scary reading: [Report of the National Intelligence Council’s 2020 Project](http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_globaltrend2020_es.html) [National Intelligence Council’s 20205 Project](http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_2025_project.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/79 "2008-11-30T01:56:04Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > What I don’t understand is that the Chinese are going to be engaging in deficit spending to try and get their economy going, so that means that one of our biggest debt holders is going to be selling their own debt. Who’s going to be buying that? The Chinese don’t _need_ to run a deficit, do they? I thought they had around a trillion dollars in the bank. (Isn’t that what foreign reserves basically are?) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366/80 "2008-11-30T03:08:32Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The Chinese don’t _need_ to run a deficit, do they? I thought they had around a trillion dollars in the bank. (Isn’t that what foreign reserves basically are?) The news stories I heard indicated that they do. Mind you, I’m dealing with a really _nasty_ case of the flu at the moment, and I might have heard things wrong. One of the problems the Chinese have, however, is that because they hold so much of our debt (and currency), is that if they try to _do_ anything with it, they can cause the markets to go haywire, which will put them (and everyone else) in worse shape. Some of the mutual fund companies in the US have a similar problem. Fidelity being a prime example of this. If they decide they need to sell off some stock (to diversify their portfolios and **not** because they think the company is going to go belly up), they have to be _very_ careful in how they do it. Sell too much at one time, and the market goes into panic mode and begins dumping all of that company’s stock (if not the entire _industry’s_) because they think Fidelity’s gotten wind of big problems at the company. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woohoo-nearly-10-trillian-in-handouts-for-wall-st/474366.md?page=5)