# Word Pattern Analysis of Novels: the Hobbit only uses "she" once! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776 "2017-06-12T14:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/1 "2017-06-12T14:45:46Z")
I heard this guy interviewed on NPR and there is an article from another place here: [Words that give away a writer's gender, from Ben Blatt's book "Nabokov's Favorite Word Is Mauve"](https://qz.com/934268/words-that-give-away-a-writers-gender-from-ben-blatts-book-nabokovs-favorite-word-is-mauve/) This fella used Big Data analytics to look for patterns of individual style, based on gender and other factors. Interesting stuff about a lot of novels, authors, etc. I only cited the Hobbit because I could see Stephen Colbert making a joke about his 13-year-old self already being fully aware that few girls were involved šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/2 "2017-06-12T14:57:32Z")
Tolkein is wonderful in many ways, but Iā€™m also glad that my college Introduction to Literary Theory class focused on his sexist, racist elements. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/3 "2017-06-12T16:15:29Z")
Huh. The article says the only ā€œsheā€ is applied to Bilboā€™s mom. Lobelia Sackville-Baggins is mentioned at the end of _The Hobbit_, isnā€™t she? I wonder how she didnā€™t merit a ā€œsheā€. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/4 "2017-06-12T16:33:05Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Tolkein is wonderful in many ways, but Iā€™m also glad that my college Introduction to Literary Theory class focused on his sexist, racist elements. What a horrible thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/5 "2017-06-12T17:58:17Z")
Shelob was never referred to as she? Now Iā€™m wondering how many times he used the word he. Because if that number is small, he may just have used language patterns that avoided bare pronouns in general. I could picture him being a bit kenning-influenced. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/6 "2017-06-12T18:07:05Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Shelob was never referred to as she? Shelob was in _The Lord of the Rings_, which wasnā€™t quite as devoid of female characters as _The Hobbit_ was. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/7 "2017-06-12T18:15:12Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Now Iā€™m wondering how many times he used the word he. Because if that number is small, he may just have used language patterns that avoided bare pronouns in general. I could picture him being a bit kenning-influenced. Going from [this](https://archive.org/stream/TheHobbitByJ.R.RTolkien/The%20Hobbit%20by%20J.R.R%20Tolkien_djvu.txt) copy, ā€œheā€ appears 1918 times. ā€œHisā€ appears 912 times. ā€œSheā€ does appear only once, but ā€œherā€ appears 4 times. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/8 "2017-06-12T18:30:23Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > Huh. The article says the only ā€œsheā€ is applied to Bilboā€™s mom. Lobelia Sackville-Baggins is mentioned at the end of _The Hobbit_, isnā€™t she? I wonder how she didnā€™t merit a ā€œsheā€. The ā€œSackville-Bagginsesā€ are mentioned as a family, but none of them are called out specifically by given name. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/9 "2017-06-12T19:29:12Z")
There will be a demonstration by feminist hobbitesses 22 Forelithe 8079, Barad-dƻr Community Centre, Mordor. Bring sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/10 "2017-06-12T19:32:25Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Now Iā€™m wondering how many times he used the word he. Because if that number is small, he may just have used language patterns that avoided bare pronouns in general At first I was thinking this as well. My reflex when presented with a shocking number is usually to ask ā€œcompared to what?ā€ And much of the time, itā€™s a good reflex to have. But apparently (itā€™s been a while since I read it) [no women appear in the Hobbit at all](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/36621/are-there-any-female-characters-in-the-hobbit), and only one woman is even mentioned by name: Bilboā€™s mother, Belladonna Took. So we donā€™t need to grasp at ā€œmaybe Tolkien hated pronounsā€ as an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/11 "2017-06-12T19:38:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Going from [this](https://archive.org/stream/TheHobbitByJ.R.RTolkien/The%20Hobbit%20by%20J.R.R%20Tolkien_djvu.txt) copy, ā€œheā€ appears 1918 times. ā€œHisā€ appears 912 times. ā€œSheā€ does appear only once, but ā€œherā€ appears 4 times. And most of those are in the span of three sentences: > [@The Hobbit](#): > > Not that Belladonna Took ever had any adventures after **she** became Mrs. Bungo Baggins. Bungo, that was Bilboā€™s father, built the most luxurious hobbit-hole for **her** (and partly with **her** money) that was to be found either under The Hill or over The Hill or across The Water, and there they remained to the end of their days. Still it is probable that Bilbo, **her** only son, although he looked and behaved exactly like a second edition of his solid and comfortable father, got something a bit queer in his make-up from the Took side, something that only waited for a chance to come out. (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/12 "2017-06-12T19:42:39Z")
The other seems to be referring to ā€œNightā€ personified: > [@](#): > > He woke to find himself in a white bed, and the moon shining through an open window. Below it many elves were singing loud and clear on the banks of the stream. > > Sing all ye joyful, now sing all together! > > The windā€™s in the tree-top, the windā€™s in the heather; > The stars are in blossom, the moon is in flower, > And bright are the windows of Night in **her** tower. (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/13 "2017-06-12T19:50:30Z")
I was surprised it was used even that much, but after Timā€™s rundownā€¦less so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/14 "2017-06-12T19:51:34Z")
Itā€™s a story of 14 guys on a adventure thru the wilderness. Why should there be female characters? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/15 "2017-06-12T20:01:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Itā€™s a story of 14 guys on a adventure thru the wilderness. Why should there be female characters? Iā€™m not sure anyone in this thread (or the article linked in the OP) has said explicitly said there _should_ be female characters in the Hobbit. (Maybe itā€™s implied by **Sattua** ā€™s mention of ā€œsexismā€.) Iā€™m not sure I would say that any _individual_ novel should have a certain male-female ratio. (I _would_ say that female characters are underrepresented in certain genres as a whole.) But personally I found the number surprising, even knowing that Tolkien wrote a lot more male characters than female ones. I wouldnā€™t have thought to name ā€œthe Hobbitā€ as ā€œmost male-dominated novel I ever read (with a minimum of, say, 10 characters)ā€, but I suppose it is. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/16 "2017-06-12T20:11:55Z")
Lord of the Flies ā€“ also mentioned in the article linked in the OP ā€“ is probably up there as well. But the Hobbit at least has the title of ā€œmost distance walked without encountering a womanā€ pretty solidly locked up. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/17 "2017-06-12T21:25:55Z")
ā€œButtholeā€ is like the least sexy term you can possibly use in erotica. What the hell, New York? Most of Tolkienā€™s supposed racism is due to very selective reading by people with a bone to pick. With regard to gender, yes the medieval kingdom has very strongly prescribed gender roles. Have all 13 members of Thorinā€™s company been actually referred to as he? Because while Iā€™m 100% certain all 13 are male, female dwarves are supposed to look the same as malesā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/18 "2017-06-12T22:30:47Z")
The only ones who might be suspect would be Bifur Bofur and Bombur. Everyone else is a male sibling, I think at some point referred to as brothers in the book. Bombur, Iā€™m quite certain, rates a ā€œheā€ or ā€œhimā€ or ā€œhisā€ at some point, given the fact they had to haul his ass around after he fell into the river in Mirkwood and he fell asleep. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/19 "2017-06-13T13:51:08Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The only ones who might be suspect would be Bifur Bofur and Bombur. Everyone else is a male sibling, I think at some point referred to as brothers in the book. Bombur, Iā€™m quite certain, rates a ā€œheā€ or ā€œhimā€ or ā€œhisā€ at some point, given the fact they had to haul his ass around after he fell into the river in Mirkwood and he fell asleep. Itā€™s not quite as clear as that. Iā€™ve been searching the book quite a bit, and the word ā€œbrotherā€ only shows up 4 times - describing Balin & Dwalin when they first arrive, Beorn saying you should only trust someone ā€œyou know as a brother or betterā€, Bifur is described as Bomburā€™s brother, and Thorin is Fili & Kiliā€™s motherā€™s brother. There is one sentence however, which appears to state all the dwarves are male, when they arrive at Rivendell: ā€œThere was only a narrow bridge of stone without a parapet, as narrow as a pony could well walk on; and over that they had to go, slow and careful, one by one, each leading **his** pony by the bridle.ā€ Apart from that, youā€™d probably have to read the whole book carefully to see who gets a ā€œheā€ ā€œhimā€ or ā€œhisā€ - the non-primary dwarves are generally referred to in groups and get a ā€œtheyā€, ā€œthemā€ or ā€œtheirā€. The specifically described as male dwarves that Iā€™ve found so far: Thorin (son of Thrain, son of Thror, King under the Mountain) Balin & Dwalin (explicitly described as brothers at Bilboā€™s home) Bombur & Bofur - ā€œThere they were at last, twelve of them counting poor old Bombur, who was being propped up on either side by **his** cousin Bifur, and his **brother** Bofurā€ ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776/20 "2017-06-13T14:18:10Z")
Since Iā€™m bored waiting for a meeting to start, here are some more explicitly male dwarves: Gloin: ā€œHe (Gandalf) scowled so angrily at Gloin that the dwarf huddled back in **his** chairā€ Fili: " Dori: ā€œā€œHalf a minute!ā€ said Dori, who was at the back next to Bilbo, and a decent fellow. **He** made the hobbit scramble on his shoulders as best he could with his tied handsā€ Fili and Kili: " ā€˜The sons of my fatherā€™s daughter,ā€™ answered Thorin, ā€˜Fili and Kili of the race of Durinā€™ " [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/word-pattern-analysis-of-novels-the-hobbit-only-uses-she-once/788776.md?page=2)