# Words I didn't realize were pejorative until later in life **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604 "2024-07-22T13:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/181 "2024-07-26T00:47:33Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Now I need to reread and see if there is any mention of whizzing on electric fences! Not in the Hobbit. Try _Ulysses_ by James Joyce. šŸ¤Ŗ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/182 "2024-07-26T10:42:02Z")
Iā€™m ashamed to say that thereā€™s a thread from a few years back - not going to link to it but itā€™s not hard to find - where I argued that the golliwog character was harmless. I was going to say I canā€™t quite believe my past self was such a bonehead about it, but I can totally believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/183 "2024-07-26T13:41:58Z")
In todayā€™s NYT Spelling Bee I tried to use the word ā€œoctoroonā€ and it didnā€™t take it. I didnā€™t remember the definition but I was pretty sure it was a word - and Spelling Bee is notorious for not allowing some obscure words - so I looked it up on dictionary dot com as a sanity check. ā€œA person having one-eighth Black ancestry, with one Black great-grandparent. The offspring of a quadroon and a white person.ā€ So yeah, it makes sense why Spelling Bee didnā€™t accept it! Also, not sure I have ever heard of a ā€œquadroonā€, but I will know to avoid both words in the future. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/184 "2024-07-26T15:35:29Z")
And ā€œmulattoā€ was originally 1/2 white 1/2 black. So it went mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, and the (this I just learned today double checking my definitions), quintroon. And there apparently are other words for other mixes that seem to vary (like one source calls a ā€œsamboā€ a mix of mulatto and black, so 3/4 black 1/4 white. This seems so bizarre to me from a modern viewpoint, and then, on the other hand, it somehow does not.) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/185 "2024-07-26T17:16:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Unfortunately, the golliwog was quite a prominent thing here in the UK. I had a stuffed ragdoll toy golliwog as a child (in the 1970s) - I think it was a gift obtained by sending in tokens from jars of Robertsonā€™s marmalade - there were promotional collectible figurines, enamel badges and other items available by sending in tokens from the jars (the golliwog, later just named ā€˜gollyā€™ was their mascot until it was officially retired in 2002). > I think itā€™s probably still the case that the majority of public opinion here in the UK is that thereā€™s nothing racist about them, even though IMO there pretty obviously is. Yeah Iā€™m aware of this. Iā€™ve even seen interviews with British people asking them if the _gollywog_ is racist. They mostly say ā€œnoā€ How, after all, can something so familiar be bad and racist? Itā€™s only when you look at it as an outsider, without that comforting blanket of insulating nostalgia, that yo can see it for what it is. As I say, even Alan Moore, hard-hitting writer of very adult graphic novels, has a soft spot for the character. He introduced t into the third installment of his _League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_ as a character, hoping, as he said, to rehabilitate it, taking it back to its roots. But its roots are pretty clearly racist. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/186 "2024-07-26T17:21:02Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Iā€™m ashamed to say that thereā€™s a thread from a few years back - not going to link to it but itā€™s not hard to find - where I argued that the golliwog character was harmless. My sister has a collection of old-time advertising on display that makes use of racial stereotypes. Itā€™s cringe-worthy. She would argue that she isnā€™t racist, and that the stuff she has is ā€œcute Americanaā€. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/187 "2024-07-26T17:51:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yeah Iā€™m aware of this. Iā€™ve even seen interviews with British people asking them if the _gollywog_ is racist. They mostly say ā€œnoā€ How, after all, can something so familiar be bad and racist? Itā€™s only when you look at it as an outsider, without that comforting blanket of insulating nostalgia, that yo can see it for what it is. Last year, a pub in England made the news because [they had a collection of the dolls confiscated](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/essex-police-investigating-golliwog-pub-display-examine-landlord-lynching-post), after the owner made racist FB posts and the police were called to investigate a possible hate crime. Then Suella Braverman, then Home Secretary, a woman whoā€™s both a person of colour and shockingly racist (sadly, sheā€™s not at all a unique figure in the current Tory party) [got involved as well](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/17/british-pub-right-golliwogs-rightwing-politicians-press-racism-people-colour), as the incident fit in nicely with the British right wingā€™s own war on woke. Itā€™s almost as if people want to cling to something so obviously offensive, just for the joy of pissing off everyone to the left of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/188 "2024-07-26T18:55:15Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yeah Iā€™m aware of this. Iā€™ve even seen interviews with British people asking them if the _gollywog_ is racist. They mostly say ā€œnoā€ How, after all, can something so familiar be bad and racist? Itā€™s only when you look at it as an outsider, without that comforting blanket of insulating nostalgia, that yo can see it for what it is. Yeah, itā€™s like asking a fish if it feels wet. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/189 "2024-07-26T20:36:12Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > Last year, a pub in England made the news because [they had a collection of the dolls confiscated](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/essex-police-investigating-golliwog-pub-display-examine-landlord-lynching-post), after the owner made racist FB posts and the police were called to investigate a possible hate crime. I mean, I suppose a collection of them need not be racist (Museums have collection of nazi regalia after all)- but after you make openly racist comments- yep- racist. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/190 "2024-07-26T20:42:09Z")
ā€œUppityā€ Started a whole big [brouhaha here on the SDMB](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-needs-to-have-a-banned-words-list/978494) 18 months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/191 "2024-07-26T21:23:57Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > Last year, a pub in England made the news because [they had a collection of the dolls confiscated](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/essex-police-investigating-golliwog-pub-display-examine-landlord-lynching-post) Those articles are paywalled, but here are some that arenā€™t (for me, at least). One of the owners explaining how _she_ isnā€™t offended by ā€œwogā€ or the dolls, so they are okay: > **[Essex pub landlady replaces golliwog doll collection that was seized by police](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/11/essex-pub-landlady-benice-ryley-replaces-golliwog-doll-collection-that-was-seized-by-police)** > > Benice Ryley plans to display new dolls despite police investigation into an alleged hate crime The story does have a happy ending, though: > **[Pub that displayed golliwog dolls after attack forced to close after boycott](https://www.ladbible.com/news/white-hart-inn-pub-golliwog-dolls-323231-20230503)** > > A pub that controversially displayed golliwog dolls has been forced to close. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/192 "2024-07-26T21:54:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My sister has a collection of old-time advertising on display that makes use of racial stereotypes. Itā€™s cringe-worthy. She would argue that she isnā€™t racist, and that the stuff she has is ā€œcute Americanaā€. Your sister needs to watch _Ghost World_. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/193 "2024-07-26T22:02:15Z")
Whoopi Goldberg is said to own an extensive collection, which she calls ā€œNegrobilia.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/194 "2024-07-26T23:38:19Z")
Iā€™d mention that to her, but Iā€™m currently no contact because I donā€™t love jesus. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/195 "2024-07-26T23:59:15Z")
Send her a Jimmy Buffett tape with my regards. _My head hurts, my feet stink, and I donā€™t love Jesus_ _Itā€™s that kind of morninā€™_ _Really was that kind of night_ _Tryinā€™ to tell myself that my condition is improvinā€™_ _And if I donā€™t die by Thursday Iā€™ll be roarinā€™ Friday night_ ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/196 "2024-07-27T04:51:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Whoopi Goldberg is said to own an extensive collection, which she calls ā€œNegrobilia.ā€ There is also a [museum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_Museum_of_Racist_Memorabilia). You can take a [virtual tour](https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/index.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/197 "2024-07-27T14:53:02Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The story does have a happy ending, though: ā€˜The young people these days donā€™t understand, from years ago where the Gollys originated fromā€¦ā€™ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/198 "2024-07-27T15:09:33Z")
Yeah, it can be pretty pernicious. I saw a Dennis the Menace (the American one) strip once, where Dennis is playing with a black boy, and commenting on how ā€œheā€™s just like meā€. A progressive sentiment, to be sureā€¦ except the black boy is drawn in gollywog style. I think that the artist ended up doing the same strip again, years later, except with the black boy drawn in the same style as everyone else in the strip. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/199 "2024-07-27T15:21:42Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Whoopi Goldberg is said to own an extensive collection, which she calls ā€œNegrobilia.ā€ Spike Lee reportedly did as well. In David Edelsteinā€™s [great review of _Bamboozled_](https://slate.com/culture/2000/10/massa-disaster.html) (I mean, itā€™s a well-written review, the movie didnā€™t work for him), he has this terrific observation: ā€œLee was apparently inspired to return to this scenario by reports of how few African-American writers there are in network TVā€”an injustice that sent him back to his apparently immense collection of stereotypical Negro memorabilia. Itā€™s tempting to compare him to Batmanā€”a man who becomes a superheroic avenger by keeping his sense of injury alive.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/200 "2024-07-27T21:00:36Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > More recently, there was an episode of _Extras_ where Maggie dates a Black man and realizes too late that her childhood golliwog is still on display in her bedroom. The TV show _Timewasters_ is about a group of Black Londoners going back in time to the 1920s and becoming a hit as a jazz band, playing jazz versions of songs like ā€œHey Ya!ā€ and ā€œReturn of the Mackā€. At one point, one of them (the dumb guy) says ā€œHey look, they even made action figures out of us!ā€ and he holds up a handful of golliwog dolls. I just about lost it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=11)