# Words I didn't realize were pejorative until later in life **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604 "2024-07-22T13:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/61 "2024-07-22T20:53:50Z")
Apparently, OED says otherwise; but I’ve always assumed ‘jerk’ referred to how some mentally or physically handicapped people move. So calling someone a jerk was like calling someone a ‘r\_\_\_\_d’ or a ‘s\_\_z’. (And ‘jerkwater’ and ‘soda jerk’ also reference the motions of ‘jerking’ water and ‘jerking’ a soda handle.) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/62 "2024-07-22T20:55:09Z")
This week I learned that “liver lips” is a slur against Blacks or maybe alcoholics. Also, this week I learned that the term “liver lips” existed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/63 "2024-07-22T20:59:30Z")
I first heard the term ‘liver lips’ from a coworker in the '80s. He was referring to Mick Jagger. It never occurred to me that it was racial or related to alcoholism until this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/64 "2024-07-22T21:08:31Z")
For context, see [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-alcoholics-get-the-respect-they-deserve/1004469) thread. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/65 "2024-07-22T21:27:04Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > Nitpick, interesting thread, but the word is pejorative, not perjorative. It has only 1 r. > > [Pejorative Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pejorative) I fixed the spelling of the title (i hope). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/66 "2024-07-22T21:46:41Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I didn’t know some Inuit consider the term “Eskimo” offensive until a few years ago. (For reference I am in my late 40s in New England.) The wisdom is not that so much the term “Eskimo” is offensive— you can talk about the family of Eskimo languages, for instance— but that you should not lump together Inuit, Yupik, etc. as if they were all somehow interchangeable (or apply the word to peoples who are not or do not consider themselves Eskimos!) But I am not really close friends with eg any Native Alaskans so do not take my word for what _they_ think. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/67 "2024-07-22T21:49:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This week I learned that “liver lips” is a slur against Blacks or maybe alcoholics. Also, this week I learned that the term “liver lips” existed. Which is why **Liver Lips McGrowl** did not make an appearance when the Country Bear Jamboree reopened at Disney World. He was replaced by Romeo McGrowl, who has a different jacket and a different hairstyle. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/68 "2024-07-22T21:53:01Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > “Gypsy” is another name for the ethnic group that prefers to be called Romani or Rom. “Gypsy” is also used to mean something like free-spirited. It’s hard to tell when someone’s trying to offend someone else because it’s hard to know what definition of a term they are using. If I write a post that’s as short as this with no links to Wikipedia entries, it doesn’t mean that I don’t know more about the subject. My natural inclination is to write long posts with numerous links, but sometimes I have to get somewhere immediately. I’ve written long posts about this on the SDMB since 2000. Anyway, people have written much of what I was going to write but didn’t have time to do. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/69 "2024-07-22T21:54:20Z")
Not me, but my mother learned at age 62 she should not be talking about her bluetick hound chasing the coons out of her yard so happily. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/70 "2024-07-22T21:57:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I hope you are okay. But if you are, please refrain from posting incomprehensible stuff in serious threads. I found that to be a quite comprehensible comment on censorship. Maybe I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/71 "2024-07-22T21:59:50Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > I found that to be a quite comprehensible comment on censorship. It took me a moment, but I got it, too. ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/72 "2024-07-22T22:03:37Z")
Thanks, **puzzlegal**. And today I learned how to spell pejorative. Oh, I thought of another one. Somewhere or other (maybe the comic strip Pearls Before Swine?), it was mentioned that one ought not to say “Long time no see.” I’ve used it for years. I thought it was in the neighborhood of “see you later alligator”, but apparently it has to do with Chinese pidgin, which was news to me. So I had better be cautious with these words, too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/73 "2024-07-22T22:07:52Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > It took me a moment, but I got it, too. Trapeze act for me. Kind of looks like the Gettysburg Address at first, but I don’t see why ‘Four score’ and ‘years’ would be censored; and the word in the Address after ‘go’ isn’t ‘a’. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/74 "2024-07-22T22:08:10Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Which is why **Liver Lips McGrowl** did not make an appearance when the Country Bear Jamboree reopened at Disney World. He was replaced by Romeo McGrowl, who has a different jacket and a different hairstyle. I wonder if any productions of _Guys and Dolls_ have cut the reference to “Liver Lips Louie”? > [@teelabrown](#): > > Oh, I thought of another one. Somewhere or other (maybe the comic strip Pearls Before Swine?), it was mentioned that one ought not to say “Long time no see.” I’ve used it for years. I thought it was in the neighborhood of “see you later alligator”, but apparently it has to do with Chinese pidgin, which was news to me. So I had better be cautious with these words, too. See also: “chop chop” and “no can do.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/75 "2024-07-22T22:11:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Also, this week I learned that the term “liver lips” existed. I don’t think that I’d ever heard or read the term until a couple of years ago; I saw it on Wikipedia, in the description of the actor [Ronald Lacey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Lacey), who played the villainous Nazi, Major Toht, in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, and who is white: > [@](#): > > Lacey had an unusual ‘pug’ look, with beady eyes, an upturned nose, **liver lips** , an overbite, receding chin and no brows. He could scream at a very high pitch. This unique combination of features landed him repeatedly in bizarre roles on both stage and screen, often as seedy, creepy villains. Not that I’d intended to use the term anyway, but now that I know it’s a pejorative, I certainly wont. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/76 "2024-07-22T22:22:09Z")
> [@teelabrown](#): > > it was mentioned that one ought not to say “Long time no see.” I’ve used it for years. I thought it was in the neighborhood of “see you later alligator”, but apparently it has to do with Chinese pidgin, which was news to me. I have a _very_ hard time believing anyone is going to be offended by this. Except maybe people who read the comic and are now offended vicariously. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/77 "2024-07-22T22:43:41Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > I wonder if any productions of _Guys and Dolls_ have cut the reference to “Liver Lips Louie”? In the other thread, I said of course that term is an anti-Black slur, because that’s the only context in which I’ve ever heard it. Now I don’t know what to make of the phrase in light of this character name. I don’t remember the role, and apparently he only got one line in the show, “C’mon, guys, let’s get out of here.” [This guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Jacobi) played the role in a London production in 1951, per a 1980 article in the New York Times. (He is non-Black and I assume the role is/was not that of a Black character, though perhaps it is/was, who knows.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/78 "2024-07-22T23:31:43Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > [This guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Jacobi) played the role in a London production in 1951, per a 1980 article in the New York Times. (He is non-Black and I assume the role is/was not that of a Black character, though perhaps it is/was, who knows.) At my high school, there was some fretting over whether to keep the line “Get up, you fat water buffalo” - because it’s spoken to Nicely-Nicely Johnson, who was being played by a Black student. (Also because the UPenn [“water buffalo incident”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident) was still a recent memory.) ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/79 "2024-07-22T23:44:17Z")
> [@teelabrown](#): > > Oh, I thought of another one. Somewhere or other (maybe the comic strip Pearls Before Swine?), it was mentioned that one ought not to say “Long time no see.” I’ve used it for years. I thought it was in the neighborhood of “see you later alligator”, but apparently it has to do with Chinese pidgin, which was news to me. So I had better be cautious with these words, too. I use that phrase too. Which begs the question: is a phrase really offensive if its offensive origins are so far in the distant past as to have completely been forgotten? If, say, I use the word “varlet” to describe something distasteful (“that movie’s lead actor was SUCH a varlet”), and the word originally mean something really, really awful… 300 years ago, is it still pejorative? Note: I know nothing of the origins of the word and while I know it’s an insult, I have no idea just how nasty it might have been in the Middle Ages. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/80 "2024-07-22T23:47:02Z")
“Varlet” comes from a word meaning servant or attendant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=5)