# Words I didn't realize were pejorative until later in life **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604 "2024-07-22T13:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/121 "2024-07-23T16:49:16Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > > [@Shalmanese](#): > > > > Irish Goodbye > > Cf. “Jewish goodbye” (= making as if to leave and then spending another fifteen minutes chit-chatting). Huh, I’m surprised I’ve never heard that phrase. My family (German Jewish background, in the NYC area since the 50s) definitely does this, but we call it “vestibuling”. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/122 "2024-07-23T17:00:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’ve heard that ‘brainstorm’ means an epileptic seizure in the UK. According to these websites, in the 19th century, “brainstorm” meant (with no specification about which dialect) a delirium accompanied with violence. In the 20th century, it changed to meaning a bright idea. Apparently it changed so thoroughly that hardly anyone remembers the old definition: > **[brainstorm | Etymology of brainstorm by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/brainstorm)** > > "fit of acute delirious mania; sudden dethronement of reason and will under stress of… See origin and meaning of brainstorm. > **[Brainstorm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorm)** > > Brainstorm generally refers to brainstorming, a group or individual creativity exercise. > The term originally referred to a state of temporary insanity, gaining prominence when it was used in the defense of Harry Kendall Thaw against charges that he murdered prominent architect Stanford White (1907–08). > Brainstorm may also refer to: ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/123 "2024-07-23T17:48:38Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > According to these websites, in the 19th century, “brainstorm” meant (with no specification about which dialect) a delirium accompanied with violence. In the 20th century, it changed to meaning a bright idea. Apparently it changed so thoroughly that hardly anyone remembers the old definition: It was more common in the UK, in that sense; the OED has examples going back to 1861, and newspapers in the States, as noted in your link, really only picked up on it in 1907. _That said_, I would not discount the possibility that “brainstorm” the mental fit and “brainstorm” the creative exercise are just homophones, not that the one gave way to the other or that the two are related, per se. (Brain_wave_ was US slang for an idea—and in particular a bright idea—in the early 20th century, immediately prior to and overlapping with the also-US emergence of brain_storm_ and. The idea that a collection of brain waves might be characterized as a brain storm seems like a distinct possibility.) But even in the United States, “brainstorm” (homonym or no) was used in a specifically epileptic sense past the 70s, on occasion. And in the UK I can find plenty of examples of, in particular, criminal defendants being said to have “suffered a brainstorm” or politician opponents being accused of metaphorically having a “brainstorm” as an explanation for something they’ve said or done well into the 90s when the other meaning was also well-established. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/124 "2024-07-23T19:22:17Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Oreo, coconut, banana, apple, and watermelon (‘green’ on the outside but ‘red’ on the inside) Green on the outside and Red on the inside? Is “Watermelon” used as a derogatory term on Barsoom? Or is it used for somebody who claims to be an environmentalist but is really a Communist? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/125 "2024-07-23T19:23:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Or is it used for somebody who claims to be an environmentalist but is really a Communist? This. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/126 "2024-07-23T19:32:46Z")
And Twinkie. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/127 "2024-07-23T20:05:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > > > Nowadays, it’s pretty mainstream, to the point where I heard child characters using it on Full House. > > Where “nowadays” means “thirty years ago”. I in the late 90s early 00s I remember hearing “that sucks” or that blows " on a Disney-based cartoon at least 2-4 times an episode and was like "Wow so that’s ok to say in public now? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/128 "2024-07-23T20:07:15Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > Or is it used for somebody who claims to be an environmentalist but is really a Communist? > > This. Really? That’s a Thing? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/129 "2024-07-23T20:17:21Z")
Barely, in the US at least. It’s an accusation Michael Savage used to make all the time. But I’m curious given this, > **[Red–green alliance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red%E2%80%93green_alliance)** > > In politics, a red–green alliance or red–green coalition is an alliance of "red" (often social-democratic or democratic socialist) parties with "green" (often green and/or occasionally agrarian) parties. The alliance is often based on common left political views, especially a shared distrust of corporate or capitalist institutions. While the "red" social-democratic parties tend to focus on the effects of capitalism on the working class, the "green" environmentalist parties tend to focus on the en... how often it comes up in the rest of the world. ETA It does, > **[Why a watermelon tells you what's wrong with the climate debate | James...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/11/watermelon-climate-debate)** > > James Randerson: The right believes the agenda is green on the outside but red on the inside – we must take the political poison out of the debate ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/130 "2024-07-23T20:27:14Z")
These days in the USA “red” seems to mean “Republican”. A shift in meaning I still find pretty weird. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/131 "2024-07-23T20:47:06Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Really? > > That’s a Thing? Could someone not be a Communist, or genuine communist for that matter, and an environmentalist at the same time? Is it politically impossible? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/132 "2024-07-23T20:57:10Z")
I think that what is Not a Thing is people who claim to be environmentalists but who want to use the controls necessary to implement it to enact a nefarious totalitarian communism while not really helping the environment. Despite what conservatives might say, that type of watermelon is very much Not a Thing in America since climate scientists don’t really broadcast their social agendas and mainstream liberals aren’t communists. I guess that it’s possible in theory to have a watermelon party elsewhere in the world, but the idea seldom if ever refers to actual parties that openly mix environmentalism with socialism. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/133 "2024-07-23T23:08:53Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Could someone not be a Communist, or genuine communist for that matter, and an environmentalist at the same time? Is it politically impossible? They certainly could. But if there’s a slang term describing them it means there’s quite a few of them, and somebody considers them a problem. That’s what I find surprising. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/134 "2024-07-23T23:24:29Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > But if there’s a slang term describing them it means there’s quite a few of them, and somebody considers them a problem. No. The term exists to pejoratively describe environmentalists as hiding their ‘’‘true anti capitalist agenda’‘’. The whole ‘X on the outside but Y on the inside’ is, simply, the _No, True, Scotsman_ fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/135 "2024-07-24T00:29:33Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Huh. I’ve always heard that practice referred to as “French leave”. … whereas I’ve always understood _that_ to mean deserting from the military. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/136 "2024-07-24T00:59:34Z")
I was gigged for my Irish pins, so I built up some Dutch courage and took French leave over the border, where I caught a Mexican boxing glove. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/137 "2024-07-24T09:38:50Z")
> [@Nyvaak](#): > > Apparently any connection between “jury-rigged” and “jerry-built” is unclear. But all sources I’ve checked say that the latter was in use long before German soldiers were referred to as Jerries. The reason that German soldiers were referred to derogatorily as “Jerries” was because they wore helmets that looked similar to “jerrys” - British slang for “chamber pot” and probably an abbreviation of jeroboam ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/138 "2024-07-24T10:58:32Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Oriental (at least in the US), yes, but who said that Asian was offensive? It’s certainly not seen “as a word to be avoided” in the US, it’s a commonly used descriptor. So has “oriental” passed from common usage completely? I remember learning _here_ of all places that _oriental_ was for things and _Asian_ for people (e.g. an oriental rug sold by by an Asian shopkeeper). Has that usage gone away? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/139 "2024-07-24T11:19:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No. The term exists to pejoratively describe environmentalists as hiding their ‘’‘true anti capitalist agenda’‘’. Why the “No”?. Nothing I said is false. Whoever coined the pejorative clearly felt there were enough of them to be a concern ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604/140 "2024-07-24T11:46:00Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > For “bint”, it agrees that it comes from Arabic but doesn’t note any racist connotations: > > > from Arabic bint daughter, girl, feminine corresponding to 'ibn son. Nonetheless, the term bint is derogatory and sexist, so it shouldn’t be used in any case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-i-didnt-realize-were-pejorative-until-later-in-life/1004604.md?page=8)