# Words people don't realize are slurs **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741 "2004-09-23T20:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/81 "2004-09-25T06:03:55Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Most Orientals don’t care, but the term is quaint and implies from the East. > But since we Americans look at a map ftom a Pacific point of view, Asian is to the west. “Oriental” comes from the fact that Europeans used to orient their maps to the east and, in fact, viewed it as up. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/82 "2004-09-25T08:00:18Z")
Growing up, my friends and I used the term “beaner” frequently. I think to us it meant a person who might wear a beanie- someone with no sense of style… a “nerd”. I and remember a my little group calling Wayne Gretzky “The Beaner”, since to us he was the ultimate nerd who had made good in life. Needless to say, I was aghast when I learned (at age 32) that this is in fact a derogatory term for a latino person. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/83 "2004-09-25T09:38:30Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Not a word, but a phrase: “Mighty white of you”, said when someone has done something nice for you. Growing up, I used to hear the phrase ‘play the white man’ used - usually said to a friend to try to defuse an argument and get the person to be magnanimous and let it go. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/84 "2004-09-25T10:14:14Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > “Oriental” comes from the fact that Europeans used to orient their maps to the east and, in fact, viewed it as up. Not true. It comes from the Latin _orientem_, which describes the direction of the rising sun. The word ‘orient’ as a general directional term has the same origin, but is a much more recent development. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/85 "2004-09-25T16:18:59Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > why take a chance if there are perfectly good synonyms like “renege” and “rip off”, respectively. Actually _renege_ itself is now suspect as well. An acceptable pronunciation is “re-NIG”, which makes people leery for the same reason as _niggard_\*. So people generally pronounce it “re-NEG”, nowadays, if they are courageous enough to use it. \*The line from ROTK that, above all others, I knew would not be in the film: _No niggard are you, Eomer, thus to give Gondor the fairest thing in your realm!_ ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/86 "2004-09-25T16:24:16Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > As a native Oklahoman, I’ve never met another Oklahoman who considered “Okie” derogatory, although it was used so during the depression to describe migrant workers from Oklahoma. We just didn’t use it much at all. Isn’t it a situation where between members of the group, it’s OK to use a term that might be offensive if someone outside the group used it? After all, there’s the famous song “Okie From Muskogee”, by another Oklahoman. But if a New Yorker or Angeleno calls you that, isn’t it bad? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/87 "2004-09-25T16:56:01Z")
This is called the “insider/outsider” rule–It’s okay for a member of the group to use the word (usually in a kidding sense), but not okay for an outsider. The best use of this is “Queer Nation,” who have taken back the “queer” word. Nobody here has mentioned the word “girl” being applied to a mature female, but I find that extremely offensive. As well as the “false generic” that says “men” includes everybody. Give me another word that excludes a group yet is used to include them, and I’ll back down. If a group of women is joined by one man, does that make them “men”? Or if a woman in a group sudden goes into labor and has a male baby, that makes it a group of “men?” ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/88 "2004-09-25T17:05:05Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > the “false generic” that says “men” includes everybody. Give me another word that excludes a group yet is used to include them, and I’ll back down. If a group of women is joined by one man, does that make them “men”? Or if a woman in a group sudden goes into labor and has a male baby, that makes it a group of “men?” Here we go. The use of “men” instead of “people” I’ll give you. The slope you’re skirting (or is that term offensive too?) is the use of “he” as a gender-indeterminate third-person pronoun. _I_ find it offensive to the English Language to say “She got a call from someone today, and they told her…”. “They” does not match “some_one_”. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/89 "2004-09-25T17:07:32Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > Don’t Safeway supermarkets in the U.S. still sell budget-line “Scotch Buy” products? I’m sure they at least sell [Scotch tape](http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/7/leftovers7.php). > [@](#): > > the origin of the brand name itself. “Scotch” was born in 1925, when a 3M engineer named Richard Drew created a form of masking tape that he envisioned being used by auto painters. But his two-inch-wide tape had adhesive only at the outer edges, not in the middle, much to the frustration of a local painter who tried one of Drew’s prototype rolls. As the tape kept falling off the surfaces to which it had been applied, the exasperated painter told Drew, “Take this tape back to those Scotch bosses of yours and tell them to put more adhesive on it!” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/90 "2004-09-25T17:14:11Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > Here we go. The use of “men” instead of “people” I’ll give you. The slope you’re skirting (or is that term offensive too?) is the use of “he” as a gender-indeterminate third-person pronoun. _I_ find it offensive to the English Language to say “She got a call from someone today, and they told her…”. “They” does not match “some_one_”. Then rewrite the freaking sentence: She got a call from someone today and was told…" Sheesh. And the argument about his/her/their makes me wonder if the words “a” and “the” even exist. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/91 "2004-09-25T17:27:57Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Then rewrite the freaking sentence: She got a call from someone today and was told…" Sheesh. And the argument about his/her/their makes me wonder if the words “a” and “the” even exist. It depends on the language. Hungarian, for instance, generally doesn’t use one of the articles (I forget if it’s the definite or indefinite). The English language identifies the gender-male and gender-indeterminate third-person pronouns. Period. The example I cited was the easiest I could construct off the top of my head, but there are others not nearly so amenable to reconstruction. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/92 "2004-09-25T21:58:12Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > Don’t Safeway supermarkets in the U.S. still sell budget-line “Scotch Buy” products? I don’t think so, nor do they sell the blue-and-white plain wrap. That market’s been taken over, somewhat, by the dollar stores. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/93 "2004-09-26T01:20:12Z")
I want to thank **Shagnasty** for his link on _Spic and Span_ waaaay back in post number seven. That cleared up a lot, but I’m still wondering what Carl Sandburg meant when he wrote his children’s story about “Wing Tip the Spick,” a little girl from “The Village of Cream Puffs.” Was she like a nail or a spike? I’ll have to go back and see if he said she stood especially straight. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/94 "2004-09-26T01:54:52Z")
Rice burner. Meaning a japanese car. This bothers me. Why do the japanese get to fuel their car on the rice they pick and I have to use fossil fuel that is jacked up in price by those table cloth wearing camel jockeys. You’d think that Detroit would just turn Michigan into one big rice paddy to keep up with overseas production models. Please don’t hurt me. In Other News: My 1st Generation American German Speaking Husband never knew what **Kraut** stood for. He had no idea it was a slam against his parents homeland. Ja, good times. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/95 "2004-09-26T01:57:17Z")
**Faggot** Everytime I say, " I smoked twelve faggots yesterday." I end up in the interrogation room down at the Precinct. How did Faggot ( cigerettes) come to mean Gay/gay man? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/96 "2004-09-26T02:08:48Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > It depends on the language. Hungarian, for instance, generally doesn’t use one of the articles (I forget if it’s the definite or indefinite). The English language identifies the gender-male and gender-indeterminate third-person pronouns. Period. The example I cited was the easiest I could construct off the top of my head, but there are others not nearly so amenable to reconstruction. Hungarian uses both the definite and indefinite articles: the Hungarian definite article is _a_ (_az_ before a vowel), and the indefinite article is _egy_. _a nyelv_ ‘the language’ _az Istennö_ ‘the Goddess’ _egy nyelv_ ‘a language’ _egy istennö_ ‘a goddess’ _Egy_ is pronounced almost like the English word _edge_ and is the same as the word for the numeral 1. _Az_ is the same as the demonstrative pronoun “that.” Finnish, Hindi, Mongolian, Persian, Tatar, and Turkish are examples of languages that have neither gender nor articles. The third-person singular pronoun in each of these languages is the same word, regardless whether it refers to he, she, or it. In Hungarian the same pronoun, _ö_, is used for both ‘he’ and ‘she’, but the pronoun _az_ is used for ‘it’. Finnish _hän_ Hindi _yih_ or _vuh_ Mongolian _ter_ Persian _u_ Tatar _ul_ Turkish _o_ Just as the English third-person plural pronoun _they_ is the same regardless of gender. This is somewhat abnormal about English: other language with gendered pronouns keep the gender distinction in the plural forms. Not sure what the articles have to do with this gender discussion, though. Please pardon the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/97 "2004-09-26T04:17:03Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Most Orientals don’t care, but the term is quaint and implies from the East. > But since we Americans look at a map ftom a Pacific point of view, Asian is to the west. Um, most Asians do care. Are you ‘Oriental’? :rolleyes: Oriental was a pejorative not too long ago. And it is also an easy way of not bothering to distinguish us. You know, “you all look alike to me.” Is it so difficult to either try and figure out what country they’re actually from? Or barring that, call them Asians? I’m Indian, and I don’t even really consider India part of Asia because the culture and people are so different. I’ll usually refer to myself as SE Asian. And China and Japan and Korea are all very different. Call people what they want to be called, is all I ask. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/98 "2004-09-26T06:58:15Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > **Faggot** > Everytime I say, " I smoked twelve faggots yesterday." I end up in the interrogation room down at the Precinct. > > How did Faggot ( cigerettes) come to mean Gay/gay man? [cough, cough] [Who am I writing this stuff for, anyway?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mfaggot.html) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/99 "2004-09-26T07:04:36Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > Um, most Asians do care. Are you ‘Oriental’? :rolleyes: > > Oriental was a pejorative not too long ago. And it is also an easy way of not bothering to distinguish us. You know, “you all look alike to me.” > > Is it so difficult to either try and figure out what country they’re actually from? Or barring that, call them Asians? > > I’m Indian, and I don’t even really consider India part of Asia because the culture and people are so different. I’ll usually refer to myself as SE Asian. And China and Japan and Korea are all very different. > > Call people what they want to be called, is all I ask. Most of us [Japanese] don’t care, unless you have a chip up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741/100 "2004-09-26T07:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Um, most Asians do care. Are you ‘Oriental’? > > Oriental was a pejorative not too long ago. Actually, “most” is a pretty broad overstatement. Many care, but a lot of folks of Japanese, Chinese, and Korean ancestry continue to use Oriental, themselves. (In fact, among my acquaintances, the _only_ first and second generation Japanese, Chinese, or Korean folks who prefer “Asian” are on-line. Every person I know in real life uses Oriental to describe themselves and their families.) Oriental has never been a pejorative (outside a few limited special contexts). This is one of the reasons that is causes so much confusion among those who are upbraided for using it. People understand why _nigger_ is rude and generally recognize that _colored_ is associated with Jim Crow laws and restrooms labeled “white” or “colored,” but few people have ever encountered a usage of “Oriental” that meant anything other than “from the East of Asia.” Claiming that “Oriental is a rug” does not explain the intense hatred that some people express toward the word. (In fact, one could make the argument that Oriental might be preferrable to Asian because it distinguishes Chinese from Syrians.) I will use whatever term for which a person expresses a preference. However, it is not fair to insist that a randomly changed term (that continues to be used by a number of people that it identifies) is _obviously_ wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-people-dont-realize-are-slurs/265741.md?page=6)