# Words vs. Intent **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 7, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502 "2019-12-07T04:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/1 "2019-12-07T04:50:48Z")
Recently, we’ve had one poster claiming that the word “harpie” (sic) is offensive in and of itself. OTOH, a different poster claimed that “no problem” ISN’T offensive, because that wasn’t the intent behind the remark. So which is it? The word, or the intent, according to the moderators? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/2 "2019-12-07T05:29:25Z")
Here we have, again, a fine example of where context is king and fuzzy lines are very very important for moderating things. In short, you’ll get no clear definition out of me. Perhaps it would be best to avoid being close to offensive at all. I will admit, though, that I see no path by which ‘no problem’ would offend. Perhaps I’m missing something. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/3 "2019-12-07T05:33:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Recently, we’ve had one poster claiming that the word “harpie” (sic) is offensive in and of itself. OTOH, a different poster claimed that “no problem” ISN’T offensive, because that wasn’t the intent behind the remark. Invalid comparison. “[Harpy](https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/harpy)” is loaded language whereas “no problem” is not. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/4 "2019-12-07T05:45:21Z")
Links would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/5 "2019-12-07T06:02:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Recently, we’ve had one poster claiming that the word “harpie” (sic) is offensive in and of itself. OTOH, a different poster claimed that “no problem” ISN’T offensive, because that wasn’t the intent behind the remark. > > So which is it? The word, or the intent, according to the moderators? I must agree that this question makes absolutely no sense in the absence of context. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/6 "2019-12-07T06:15:29Z")
[Not really all that much context to be had](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22012839#post22012839) other than [being admonished for threadshitting](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22013260#post22013260). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/7 "2019-12-07T06:19:46Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Not really all that much context to be had](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22012839#post22012839) other than [being admonished for threadshitting](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22013260#post22013260). Is that what this is about? Yeah, that remark seemed to me to be a complete non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/8 "2019-12-07T06:37:06Z")
Given that context, I’ll point out that the “forbidden words” in question are ones where intent can be inferred from usage alone. They have few if any legitimate uses. Thus, to claim no bad intent, one would have to make an extraordinary claim, and an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. On the other hand, those offended by “no problem” insist it has a meaning that is legitimate–to convey that it was not a problem to do whatever they were thanked for. The meaning that they find offensive is almost never the intended meaning. The problem is, IMHO, just a reaction to changing norms. It feels wrong to them because it’s not what they grew up with as the proper response to “thank you.” That makes it feel rude. So confirmation bias leads them to believe that it must also be rude in intent. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/9 "2019-12-07T15:56:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Is that what this is about? Yeah, that remark seemed to me to be a complete non sequitur. Or just having an itch and scratching the wrong place; but it happens more often than you would think around here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/10 "2019-12-07T16:11:53Z")
Just which moderator action is being objected to, here? ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/11 "2019-12-07T16:58:06Z")
No one ever said you have the right NOT to be offended. If words are directly aimed at you, then you have a point, but trying to get the mods to act just because you’re offended by a word in general usage, that’s just stupid and overly PC. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/12 "2019-12-07T16:59:03Z")
How is “no problem” offensive? When did that happen? Did I miss another memo? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/13 "2019-12-07T17:17:12Z")
There is some discussion of whether the word “harpy/harpie” is a sexist insult or not in [this current ATMB thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=885910) There is some reference to a warning issued three years ago for a post in which the word “harpy” was used. However, the warning (for being a jerk) was actually for telling other posters to “shove your accusations of sexism up your ass,” and had nothing to do with the word “harpy” or the intent with which it was used. As noted in post #6, the OP received a mod note for hijacking/inappropriate discussion for the forum in a thread where some of the discussion was whether “no problem” in response to “thank you” might be considered rude. Again the mod note had nothing to do with the intent of that phrase, but rather the hijacking. The fact that intent should be taken into account with regard to the use of a word is so obvious that it’s puzzling why it’s being questioned. Using “harpy” is perfectly OK in discussions of Greek mythology or certain eagles. In other contexts it is definitely insulting. I think the OP needs to explain what the moderation issue is here, with a link to specific examples. Otherwise the discussion of “harpy” is ongoing in the other ATMB thread, and “no problem” in the Cafe Society thread, so discussing those issues here seems to be redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/14 "2019-12-07T17:37:09Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > How is “no problem” offensive? When did that happen? Did I miss another memo? [Tom Scott has a great, short video on why phatic expressions can be perceived of vastly different rudeness depending on audience](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw). To me “you’re welcome” almost seems rude, at least strange, because of my age. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/15 "2019-12-07T17:45:13Z")
Oh, whoops, should’ve taken it to the CS thread, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/16 "2019-12-07T17:58:55Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Recently, we’ve had one poster claiming that the word “harpie” (sic) is offensive in and of itself. OTOH, a different poster claimed that “no problem” ISN’T offensive, because that wasn’t the intent behind the remark. > > So which is it? The word, or the intent, according to the moderators? Turns out, different people have different ideas about stuff. Why is this in ATMB? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/17 "2019-12-07T18:11:11Z")
This might be the worst attempt at a gotcha that I have ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/18 "2019-12-07T18:29:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why is this in ATMB? [Chronos.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22013421&postcount=6) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/19 "2019-12-07T19:47:40Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Chronos.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22013421&postcount=6) 🙂 I see the smilie, but to answer seriously, **Chronos** told him to take it to ATMB if he was talking about the opinion of moderators on the issue. Yet the OP only references the opinions of posters, and does not explain why this is a moderation issue. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502/20 "2019-12-07T20:09:08Z")
The possible “gotcha” attempt I see is if the mods say, “intention matters,” the OP could argue that intent, that slippery, evanescent concept, should stop other posters from objecting to racist, sexist, homophobic language because after all, the poster just has to say, "I didn’t mean it that way; if mods say, “words matter,” then there’s a demand for a bright line list of words, and any other words that mean the same thing would be allowed. I hope I’m wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-vs-intent/844502.md?page=2)