# Words with origins that have nothing to do with how they're now used **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279 "2007-07-10T23:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/21 "2007-07-11T10:05:14Z")
Decimate has morphed from “reduce by one-tenth” to “wipe off the face of the earth.” So instead of having 90% of what you started with, you have nothing. For some reason, this usage irritates me to no end. I suppose I should just get over it. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/22 "2007-07-11T11:14:29Z")
With. I believe it used to mean “against” or “versus\*”. It is still used in this sense in “fighting with” etc, but has generally come to mean the opposite. \*In Australia, a lot of kids these days have mistaken “versus” for “verses”, and a sportsman can be asked “Who are you versing this weekend?” Is that the same elsewhere? “Verse” seems to be gaining traction here. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/23 "2007-07-11T11:52:59Z")
Liberal is one that gets me lately. It’s gained a connotation that has nothing to do with the previously popular meaning of “open to new ideas”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/24 "2007-07-11T12:11:42Z")
“Magazine” derives from “makhzan”, an arabic word meaning “a storehouse for grain” 9as I recall from mt World Book Encyclopedia). I don’t know anywhere that use persists in English, but the military uses of "magazine: as a place to store gunpowder, or as the place where a firearm keeps its unexpended rounds obviously derives from that. It’s more of a stretch to “magazine” as a storehouse of articles in printed form. “Diaper” originally referred to a diagonally patterned cloth (quilted?), with the word “diaper” actually coming from the adjective for “diagonal”. The name got transferred to that sort of cloth, then to other types of cloth, and finaly to cloths used to cloth babies, probably from a desire to dignify that use. Then to the paper. plastic, and coagulant constructions that we dispose of. “Toilet” is probably the most familiar – it used to refer to one’s cleansing ritual, and as an adjective referred to a table and water and other things, before it was applied euphemistically to our flushing chamber pots. I can easily imagine why the euphemism got applied – it’s still a “cleansing ritual” of a kind. But as a kid I couldnm’t understand why anyone would want to apply “toilet water” to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/25 "2007-07-11T12:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] “Toilet” is probably the most familiar – it used to refer to one’s cleansing ritual, and as an adjective referred to a table and water and other things, before it was applied euphemistically to our flushing chamber pots. I can easily imagine why the euphemism got applied – it’s still a “cleansing ritual” of a kind. But as a kid I couldnm’t understand why anyone would want to apply “toilet water” to themselves. [/QUOTE] Indeed the same process is underway with ‘bathroom’. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/26 "2007-07-11T13:01:13Z")
_quick_, as in the _quick and the dead._ It doesn’t mean that the slowest get killed - quick used to mean “living” Si ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/27 "2007-07-11T13:05:38Z")
Prestige, according to OED, used to mean a sleight-of-hand trick (hence the name of the recent Hugh Jackman movie.) ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/28 "2007-07-11T14:36:05Z")
Fond used to mean foolish, rather than affectionate. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/29 "2007-07-11T17:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Villain–used to mean a peasant. The word changed to mean a rude, foolish country bumpkin, and from there to its current meaning. Cute used to mean intelligent. Like “acute” still means. [/QUOTE] Cad, Blackguard and possibly churl all derive from upper crust nicknames for the lower class. Cunning used to mean cute The word dollar is derived from the Dutch currency Taler. Taler (or thaler) in Dutch means valley. Bit and picyune both come from the names of small amounts of money. Being glamourous or charming originally meant you were under a magic spell. In Scottish canny meant you were smart, but Uncanny meant something unknown or unknowable. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/30 "2007-07-11T17:16:18Z")
“Snob” originated in boys’ schools in England. It was a boy-invented slang word used to describe those boys who weren’t the “nobs”, or the sons of nobility. You were either a nob or a snob. Thackeray came along and used the word to describe people who were wannabe nobility, or people who followed and fawned upon the upper classes. Then he also started including in this description the upper classes who were fixated on their own superior rank, as well. So snob first meant lower class people, and now means anyone who thinks they are better than other folk. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/31 "2007-07-11T17:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] According to one of the footnotes in Terry Pratchett’s _Good Omens_, it also used to mean ‘scrupulously exact’. I realise that’s not the most rigorous of citations, but Pratchett doesn’t usually pull these things out of thin air. [/QUOTE] Yes, “nice” used to mean that, too. According to the OED, the meanings of the word are: > [@](#): > > I. General Uses. > 1. > [list=a] > [li]Of a person: foolish, silly, simple; ignorant. Obs.[/li][li]Of an action, utterance, etc.: displaying foolishness or silliness; absurd, senseless. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]Of conduct, behaviour, etc.: characterized by or encouraging wantonness or lasciviousness. Obs.[/li][li]Of a person: wanton, dissolute, lascivious. Obs.[/li][li]Of dress: extravagant, showy, ostentatious. Also in extended use. Obs.[/li][li]Of a person: finely dressed, elegant. Cf. sense 17a. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]Precise or particular in matters of reputation or conduct; scrupulous, punctilious. Now rare.[/li][li]Fastidious, fussy, difficult to please, esp. with regard to food or cleanliness; of refined or dainty tastes.[/li][li]Particular, strict, or careful with regard to a specific point or thing. Obs.[/li][li]Refined, cultured; associated with polite society.[/li][li]Fastidious in matters of literary taste or style. Obs.[/li][li]Respectable, virtuous, decent.[/li] Now sometimes hard to distinguish from sense 14c (of a person). > [li]Of a topic of conversation, mode of conduct, etc.: in good taste, appropriate, proper. Usu. in negative contexts.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]In early use: faint-hearted, timorous, cowardly, unmanly. Later also: effeminate. Obs.[/li][li]Slothful, lazy, sluggish. Obs.[/li][li]Not able to endure much; tender, delicate, fragile. Obs.[/li][li]Pampered, luxurious. Obs. rare.[/li][/list] > > 1. Strange, rare, extraordinary. Obs. > > 2. > > [list=a] > [li]Shy, coy, (affectedly) modest; reserved. Obs.[/li][li]Shy, reluctant, or unwilling in regard of or to. Also with in or infinitive. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. That requires or involves great precision or accuracy. Now rare. > > 2. > > [list=a] > [li]Not obvious or readily understood; difficult to decide or settle; demanding close consideration; {dag}intricate (obs.).[/li][li]Minute, subtle; (of differences) slight, small.[/li][li]Precise in correspondence; exact, closely judged.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]Slender, thin, fine; insubstantial. Obs.[/li][li]Unimportant, trivial. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]That enters minutely into details; meticulous, attentive, sharp. Obs.[/li][li]Of the eye, ear, etc.: able to distinguish or discriminate to a high degree; sensitive, acute.[/li][li]Delicate or skilful in manipulation; dexterous. Also fig.[/li][li]Of judgement, etc.: finely discriminative.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]Critical, doubtful; full of risk or uncertainty. Obs.[/li][li]Requiring tact, care, or discrimination in handling. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. > > [list=a] > [li]Minutely or carefully accurate.[/li][li]Of an instrument or apparatus: capable of showing minute differences; finely poised or adjusted. Obs.[/li][/list] > > 1. Of food or drink: dainty, choice; (later in weakened sense) tasty, appetizing; refreshing, restorative. > > 2. > > [list=a] > [li]That one derives pleasure or satisfaction from; agreeable, pleasant, satisfactory; attractive.[/li][li]Used as an intensifier with a predicative adjective or adverb in nice and {emem}, sometimes ironically.[/li][li]Of a person: pleasant in manner, agreeable, good-natured; attractive.[/li][li]Used ironically.[/li][li]Kind or considerate in behaviour; friendly (towards others). Freq. in to be nice (to).[/li][li]Of a (finished) action, task, etc.: well-executed; commendably performed or accomplished. Now freq. in interjections, as nice going!, nice try!, nice work!. Also used ironically.[/li][li]colloq. nice one: expressing approval or congratulations for something done well. In later use also ironically.[/li][/list] There is also Sections II & III, “Phrases” and “Special Uses”, respectively, that I won’t list here. “Nice” may also be used as a verb and a noun. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/32 "2007-07-11T18:01:48Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] … …or Brandywine being derived from Branduin in Tolkien.)… [/QUOTE] Nitpick: It’s “Baranduin.” And everybody’s already mentioned my favorite meaning-shifted words, so I’ll bestow one of my favorite bits of American Civil War slang on you: “Absquatulate,” meaning to get drunk. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/33 "2007-07-11T18:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] **Camera:** Latin for “chamber” or “room.” A [_camera obscura_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_obscura) (“dark chamber”) was a Renaissance device for drawing – somebody figured out somehow that if you drill a small hole in the wall of a darkened room, an inverted image of whatever is on the other side of the hole will be projected on the opposite wall; and one can then draw the image by tracing. The word “camera” later was applied to a device for taking photographs, which uses the same principle. [/QUOTE] You probably know this, but _camera_ is still used for “big room” or “suite” in Italian. _Stanza_ is used for “small room.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/34 "2007-07-11T18:10:30Z")
My favorite recent discovery is the origin of “lieutenant”. It’s kind of obvious when you break it down into “lieu” and “tenant”. It’s someone who occupies a position in lieu of its rightful holder – i.e. a second-in-command who takes over for a leader when he’s away. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/35 "2007-07-11T18:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] You probably know this, but _camera_ is still used for “big room” or “suite” in Italian. _Stanza_ is used for “small room.” [/QUOTE] And “in camera” review is when a judge reviews documents in privacy or away from a jury. One of our judges persistently referred to it as “in camero” review, leading some to wonder if she was going to buy a Chevy sportscar for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/36 "2007-07-11T18:48:04Z")
[QUOTE=TJdude825] . Lunatic has the same root as lunar, I think. [/QUOTE] And the reason is, it was once believed that madness fluctuated with the phases of the moon. I have noted a word on the way to a change in meaning. Yesterday my husband and I were talking about one of the newer SUVs that seem to be a combination of SUV and minivan. We were referring to them as “hybrids,” as in, a hybrid design of the two. It was then I realized that “hybrid,” at least in terms of cars, is coming to solely mean a gas/electric hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/37 "2007-07-11T19:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] My favorite recent discovery is the origin of “lieutenant”. It’s kind of obvious when you break it down into “lieu” and “tenant”. It’s someone who occupies a position in lieu of its rightful holder – i.e. a second-in-command who takes over for a leader when he’s away. [/QUOTE] Ever wonder why major outranks a lieutenant, but a lieutenant general outranks a major general? [The Master Speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_325a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/38 "2007-07-11T19:21:45Z")
“Marlin” as in the fish comes from “marlin spike,” a tool used to work marlins (i.e., “moor lines”). The fish was obviously named for the tool, not the rope that the tool is used for. And I think “dolphin,” which originally referred only to a mammal, became ascribed also to a type of fish due to sailor corruption of the existing word “dorado” (_cf._ “turtle” earlier in the thread). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/39 "2007-07-11T19:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] or Brandywine being derived from Branduin in Tolkien.) [/QUOTE] I don’t have any I can think of right now, I just wanted to mention that I never did realize this until I stared at Lord of the Rings maps for far, far too long. When I saw the Baranduin, I rolled the word around in my head, rolled it around… and suddenly a light came on. Brandywine! It’s a teensy name that says so much about the history of the place, the time that’s passed… …mm, I still seem to have some geek on my shoes from the Harry Potter showing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/40 "2007-07-11T19:49:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] According to one of the footnotes in Terry Pratchett’s _Good Omens_, it also used to mean ‘scrupulously exact’. I realise that’s not the most rigorous of citations, but Pratchett doesn’t usually pull these things out of thin air. [/QUOTE] He did when he offered “man of the city” as the root for “policeman” in one of his Nightwatch books. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279.md?page=3)