# Words with origins that have nothing to do with how they're now used **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279 "2007-07-10T23:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/41 "2007-07-11T19:56:25Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] And everybody’s already mentioned my favorite meaning-shifted words, so I’ll bestow one of my favorite bits of American Civil War slang on you: “Absquatulate,” meaning to get drunk. [/QUOTE] Really? I thought its only meaning was to run away. [Link.](http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-abs1.htm) I’m quite interested to know because my fantasy baseball team is called the Absquatulating Sockdolagers. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/42 "2007-07-11T20:00:26Z")
From **Ravenmabn** ’s link: > [@](#): > > Only a few inventions of that period have survived to our times, such as sockdologer, skedaddle and hornswoggle. Among those that haven’t lasted the distance were blustrification (the action of celebrating boisterously), goshbustified (excessively pleased and gratified), and dumfungled (used up). ??? I’ve heard of _skedaddle_ and _hornswoggle_, but I’ve never come across _sockdologer_ before Raven’s post. And i thought I was reasonably well-read. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/43 "2007-07-11T20:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] I don’t have any I can think of right now, I just wanted to mention that I never did realize this until I stared at Lord of the Rings maps for far, far too long. When I saw the Baranduin, I rolled the word around in my head, rolled it around… and suddenly a light came on. Brandywine! It’s a teensy name that says so much about the history of the place, the time that’s passed… …mm, I still seem to have some geek on my shoes from the Harry Potter showing. 😛 [/QUOTE] Does it have a [blacksmith?](http://indepos.comicgenesis.com/d/20050513.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/44 "2007-07-11T20:10:03Z")
My favorite is [“Boogie”](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_288.html), which comes ultimately from Bulgaria, and now means “dancing”, basically. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/45 "2007-07-11T20:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I’ve never come across _sockdologer_ before Raven’s post. And i thought I was reasonably well-read. [/QUOTE] [Indeed!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=64566) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/46 "2007-07-11T21:36:08Z")
_ **Prodigal** _ is a word that seems to be in the process of changing its meaning. It means “recklessly extravagant” or “wasteful,” but it seems like most people are using it to mean “wayward” or “gone astray.” People are familiar with the Biblical parable of the prodigal son, I suppose, and they mistakenly assume that the adjective _prodigal_ refers to the fact that he wandered away from home, when in fact it refers to his spendthrift habits. If a critical mass of people use it to mean “wayward,” though, the original meaning may go by the wayside. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/47 "2007-07-12T01:16:41Z")
Slightly off topic, and likely an urban legend, but the story goes that Charles Perrault’s version of Cinderella was mistranslated from ‘fur slipper’ (_pantoufle de vair_) into the version that survives today in popular (and Disney) retellings–‘glass slipper’ (_pantoufle de verre_). ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/48 "2007-07-12T02:09:45Z")
[QUOTE=Earl Snake-Hips Tucker] “Marlin” as in the fish comes from “marlin spike,” a tool used to work marlins (i.e., “moor lines”). The fish was obviously named for the tool, not the rope that the tool is used for. And I think “dolphin,” which originally referred only to a mammal, became ascribed also to a type of fish due to sailor corruption of the existing word “dorado” (_cf._ “turtle” earlier in the thread). [/QUOTE] And torpedo, in the military sense, is also named after a fish, the electric ray: [[QUOTE=answers.com](http://QUOTE=answers.com)] Any of various tropical or subtropical marine fishes of the family Torpedinidae, having a rounded body and a pair of organs capable of producing an electric discharge, which is used to stun or kill prey. Also called crampfish, numbfish; Also called torpedo. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/49 "2007-07-12T02:14:46Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] Slightly off topic, and likely an urban legend, but the story goes that Charles Perrault’s version of Cinderella was mistranslated from ‘fur slipper’ (_pantoufle de vair_) into the version that survives today in popular (and Disney) retellings–‘glass slipper’ (_pantoufle de verre_). [/QUOTE] Snopes, among others says that the mis-translation theory is wrong. They cite the fact that in the original edition, the word is written “verre” and not “vair” and that by the time Perrault wrote the story, “vair” was not a word in common usage. [Here’s a link](http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-108212&M=chemindefer) to an early edition, where you can see the “verre” spelling. However, the idea that Perrault did, indeed, mean “fur” and not “glass” is common and fairly well accepted in the French world. For instance, Émile Littré, [in his famous dictionary notes](http://francois.gannaz.free.fr/Littre/xmlittre.php?requete=vair&submit=Rechercher): > [@](#): > > _C’est parce qu’on n’a pas compris ce mot maintenant peu usité qu’on a imprimé dans plusieurs éditions du conte de Cendrillon souliers de verre (ce qui est absurde), au lieu de souliers de vair, c’est-à-dire souliers fourrés de vair._ > > (It is because this word (vair), nowadays little used, wasn’t understood that in many editions of the tale of Cinderella, glass slipper – which is absurd – was printed instead of vair slipper, that is to say slippers lined with vair.) The [Trésor de la langue française](http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?12;s=3258785760;r=1;nat=;sol=1;) has a similar entry: > [@](#): > > _Pantoufle de vair. [P. allus. au conte de Ch. PERRAULT, Cendrillon, où le mot était orthographié verre]_ > > (Vair slipper. [reference to the Ch. Perrault tale, Cinderella, where the word was spelled verre]) The Trésor follows with a quote by Balzac: > [@](#): > > _Certaines fourrures rares, comme le vair, (…) ne pouvaient être portées que par les rois, par les ducs et par les seigneurs (…). Ce mot, depuis cent ans, est si bien tombé en désuétude que, dans un nombre infini d’éditions de contes de Perrault, la célèbre pantoufle de Cendrillon, sans doute de menu vair, est présentée comme étant de verre_ > > (Certain rare furs, such as vair, (…) could only be worn by kings, dukes and lords (…). This word, for a hundred years, has fallen in such disuse that, in an infinite number of editions of Perrault’s tales, Cendrillon’s famous slipper, without doubt of miniver, is presented as being of glass) From what I’ve read, it appears that this comment by Balzac is in great part responsible for setting the idea that the slipper was of fur and not glass in French literary circles. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/50 "2007-07-12T02:15:54Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Awful–something that filled you with awe. Awesome used to mean the same thing as awful. Of course something awesome can be scary, so the meaning of awful started to morph into “terrifying”, and then to mean terrible and then to simply mean really bad. [/QUOTE] Similarly, _wonderful_ meant “filled with wonders”- more akin to mysterious/puzzling or even “horribly wrong” than it’s used now (delightful, excellent). Regarding sockdolager, there’s actually a play called _SOCKDOLOGY_ about the actors on stage the night Lincoln was killed. Not a great one, but one that I’ve seen professionally staged once and advertisements for at several colleges. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/51 "2007-07-12T03:26:23Z")
Mad-was “insane”, now means “angry”. Vulgar-was simply the common language of a certain geographical region instead of the Latin of the intelligencia, now describes any crude and/or sexual speech or behavior. Simple-was “retarded”, now “uncomplicated…un-complex…easy”. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/52 "2007-07-12T10:08:07Z")
Well I knew coney meant rabbit. As in Bunny Island. I’ve also heard it’s distantly related to cunt, as far as relating woman’s genitals to small furry animals. Uptight orginally all put together, smooth as per the song" Everything is all right. Uptight. Out of sight.", before it meant repressed, anxious, conventional. People called sharks and shrimps are not being named for an animal. The animal was named for the lawyers and the short people. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/53 "2007-07-12T10:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] He did when he offered “man of the city” as the root for “policeman” in one of his Nightwatch books. [/QUOTE] Eh? The dictionary says _Police_ came from: > [@](#): > > [French, from Old French policie, civil organization, from Late Latin polītīa, from Latin, the State, from Greek polīteia, from polītēs, citizen, from polis, city; see pelə-3 in Indo-European roots.] Bit of a journey to get back to _city_, but not a complete fabrication, as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/54 "2007-07-12T11:47:20Z")
**betenoir** writes: > [@](#): > > Well I knew coney meant rabbit. As in Bunny Island. I’ve also heard it’s distantly related to cunt, as far as relating woman’s genitals to small furry animals. I think that relationship to female genitals is a happy coincidence. “cunt” is pretty much acknowledged to derive from Latin _cuneus_ = “wedge” (from the shape), and not etymologically related to “coney”/“cunny” = rabbit at all. But the verbal similarity of the names must have appealed to people (men, I’ll bet), you saw “small, warm, furry animal” as an appropriate image. Sort of like “pussy”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/55 "2007-07-12T18:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=Enola Straight] Mad-was “insane”, now means “angry”. [/QUOTE] Still has the original meaning 95% of the time in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/56 "2007-07-12T18:20:29Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] **betenoir** writes: I think that relationship to female genitals is a happy coincidence. “cunt” is pretty much acknowledged to derive from Latin _cuneus_ = “wedge” (from the shape), and not etymologically related to “coney”/“cunny” = rabbit at all. But the verbal similarity of the names must have appealed to people (men, I’ll bet), you saw “small, warm, furry animal” as an appropriate image. Sort of like “pussy”. [/QUOTE] I read that although no one is sure of the origin of pussy, one theory is that it may be derived from the french word for pocket. The fact that cats are also called pussies may be completely cooincidental. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/57 "2007-07-12T18:33:37Z")
Interesting that **furryman** contributes this. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/58 "2007-07-12T18:51:56Z")
[QUOTE=FairyChatMom] Decimate has morphed from “reduce by one-tenth” to “wipe off the face of the earth.” So instead of having 90% of what you started with, you have nothing. For some reason, this usage irritates me to no end. I suppose I should just get over it. [/QUOTE] They made a point of using the term correctly in the last episode of Doctor Who. (Episode titled: Last of the Time Lords) You would have been proud. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/59 "2007-07-12T19:56:01Z")
Well, sorta. “Decimate” is derived from “decimation,” which meant taxation of 10%, and so far predates (16th century) the verb in any written record (17th century). The primary meaning of the verb (long since fallen into desuetude) meant killing or exection of 10%. So, it’s actually evolved twice. Sorta. I think the similarity in sound to “devastate” might account for the more current usage. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279/60 "2007-07-12T20:40:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, sorta. “Decimate” is derived from “decimation,” which meant taxation of 10%, I’ve never heard of any intermediate stage regarding taxation. Every derivation I’ve heard of “decimate” takes it directly from the ancient meaning of “killing 1 in 10”. Do you have a cite for the taxation stage? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-with-origins-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-how-theyre-now-used/411279.md?page=4)